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HMS Invincible 1977-2011 World Naval Ships Forums Archive


HMS Invincible 1977-2011


Posts 1 to 50


Four ships from three nations sail together during the NATO exercise Display Determination '91. The ships are, from front to back: the Spanish aircraft carrier Principe-de-Asturias (R-11), the American amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD-1), the American aircraft carrier USS Forrestal (CV-59), and HMS Invincible. A comparison of carrier sizes of the day. Below. British aircraft carrier HMS Invincible (R-05). Principe-de-Asturias is still the flagship of the Spanish fleet. USS Wasp (LHD-1) is a U.S. Navy multipurpose amphibious assault ship, The supercarrier USS Forrestal (CV-59),is now decommissioned.
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Invincible was built at Barrow-in-Furness by Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering. She was laid down in 1973, and launched on 3 May, 1977. The ship commissioned on 11 July, 1980 and joined the older carriers Hermes and Bulwark in service. [B]Proposed sale and Falklands War[/B] On 25 February, 1982 the Australian government announced that it had agreed to purchase Invincible for £175 million after several months of negotiations. The sale was confirmed by the Ministry of Defence. The ship would have replaced the Royal Australian Navy's HMAS Melbourne. :) On 2 April, 1982 Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands. On 5 April, 1982 a naval task force headed by Invincible and Hermes left Portsmouth bound for the South Atlantic. On 20 April, 1982 the British War Cabinet ordered the repossession of the Falkland Islands. The UK formally declared an end to hostilities on 20 June, 1982. Also in July 1982 the British Ministry of Defence announced that it had withdrawn its offer to sell Invincible and that it would maintain a three-carrier force. Although Argentina claims to have damaged this ship during the Falklands War this is officially denied by the British Government :mad: In December 1983 Australia refused the use of dry dock facilities in Sydney for Invincible when the Royal Navy declined to say whether the ship was carrying nuclear weapons ;) The carrier's air group comprised nine Harriers and twelve helicopters (usually all Sea Kings, either anti-submarine warfare (ASW) or Airborne Early Warning (AEW) variants). The carriers also provide an operational headquarters for the Royal Navy task force. The runway is 170 m long and includes the characteristic "ski jump" (initially 7° it was later increased to 12°).
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There was a lot of anger when the Oz Govt. changed their minds re buying the carrier. A change of Govt. didn't help either. Just like what's happening now. Of course the decision to deny her access to our port facilities was strictly a Socialist decision - playing to the grandstand. Just as they doing now. It was a very sad day. This matter is covered in my thread on HMAS Melbourne.

You are right about the Socialist decision on nuclear weapons Herk, but I thought that Britain withdrew the carrier from sale. I think we still wanted it. I have to say that Australia is possibly best served with frigates, destroyers and submarines. Carriers are peacetime ships. It reminds me of India grandstanding with their new carrier. If they go to war, they would lose it first day. Big target for modern missiles.

speaking of carriers here is a pict of one of the spitfires leaving Wasp in April 1942 to try to prop uo the air defences of Malta; Unfortunately I got the pic as a bitmap and to shrink it down to fit it looks as tho its been boil-washed. Maybe one of you better-equipped chaps can help. Has anyone looked at the pictures of the former soviet carrier Varyag recently? try [url]www.varyagworld.com[/url] , the Chinese bought the unfinished ship from Russia on the pretext of converting it to a floating casino, it looks as though the expression fortunes of war might have different connotations in China tho! The Varyag was named after a heroic light cruiser of the Tsushima era later lost as a derelict of the coast of Scotland. Just google Varyag and you will find this strange tale. tim
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Little known fact that the actor Douglas Fairbanks, Jr served on the "Wasp" as a navigating officer during one of the Malta runs (can't remember which one). Need to re-read his autobiography next time I'm home. On the subject of new carriers, India also has another fleet carrier planned, so as to have two carrier battle groups by 2012 or therebouts if memory serves. As you say Sailor, potential bullet catchers, but only if whatever is firing the missile is allowed to get in range. Harley

Tim - being able to change an image from Bitmap to JPEG is one of the most useful things to learn and fortunately one of the easiest. I am obviously not aware of which Browser you use [Windows, etc] but you should be able to follow these instructions and fit to most. Okay - you are looking at your Bitmap image that you wish to change. At the top of the image [usually top right] - you should be able to select "Open". Click on that and it should allow you to open image in either Paint or choose another programme. When open you should have various options at the top of the screen. You need to select the one marked "file" [often top left]. Click on it and then select "Save as". This will bring up the "Save as " box which should allow you to scroll down "Save as type" until you see the JPEG option. Click and save... You should now have stored where ever you keep your images a bitmap and a JPEG version of the image you started with... If you get any problems doing this - or it doesn`t work for you - let me know via PM and I will come back to you...

I've ordered some 1/6000 naval miinatures and want to paint them. I am historical accuracy maniac, so I want to colour them as close to real life as possible. But my problem is I dont know what the REAL colour of HMS Invincible (R05) and HMS Illustrious! I've found many photos of these floating beatuties but every photo showed different colours I hopy you will help! May the SEA be with you!

Fjodin The true colour is in fact Grey, (the rust is optional!). The pictures that make her appear to be white are just a trick of the light. The only RN vessels that are/were white (to my limited knowledge) are hospital ships and survey vessels.

The RN has used the same hull colour since 1978. British Standard BS381C 676 Light Weatherworks Grey. Phoenix Paints (the railway mob) do it in various size tinlets.

THANX TO ALL! THANX! I will post a photo of my 1/6000 carrier soon :)

Was wondering if anyone knew what was going to happen to Invincible? to the best of my knowledge she is being kept in reserve until 2010, but then what? will they scrap her or try to sell her? and if the latter, to whom? would the RAN like to finally get their hands on HMAS Australia? ;) i doubt the Indian Navy will want her since Viraat is set to remain in operation until 2020
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Hi Andy I went on a cruise around Portsmouth Harbour late last year (good value at five quid a time). As we passed Invincible, the commentator on the bridge stated that she was awaiting sale to Australia but I've not heard any confirmation of this. Mel

[QUOTE=MelQuick;114382]Hi Andy I went on a cruise around Portsmouth Harbour late last year (good value at five quid a time). As we passed Invincible, the commentator on the bridge stated that she was awaiting sale to Australia but I've not heard any confirmation of this. Mel[/QUOTE] I'd feel a little sceptical about that.

Aren't the sea harriers that were paid off a few years back still in storage somewhere? - maybe they would be sold to a potential buyer as well.... Del.

Re pic in post #6 wonder why the guy stood on platform just above port anchor is the only crew member not cleaned into whites??? Little h

Hi Little h.Well spotted sir! 10 days #9's at least for that said gentleman.Spoils the whole look of Procedure Alpha.:D Regards Steve.

[QUOTE=delboy86;114412]Aren't the sea harriers that were paid off a few years back still in storage somewhere? - maybe they would be sold to a potential buyer as well.... Del.[/QUOTE] No - maybe one or two still at Shawbury, but the rest have gone to museums etc.

[QUOTE=TheNavyWouldNotHaveMe;114458]No - maybe one or two still at Shawbury, but the rest have gone to museums etc.[/QUOTE] From what I read; Does that mean that since 2006 the 'Shawbury 11' been dessimated to a couple of airframes? What will have happened to the 9 which went to Culdrose plus there were 2 at Cottesmore. Little h

From what I can gather, there's ZH804, ZH811, ZD579. There were a few moved to SFDO Culdrose in 2007. These are used for ground handling training.

[QUOTE=Andy3E;114359]Was wondering if anyone knew what was going to happen to Invincible? to the best of my knowledge she is beig kept in reserve until 2010, but then what? will they scrap her or try to sell her? and if the latter, to whom? would the RAN like to finally get their hands on HMAS Australia? ;) i doubt the Indian Navy will want her since Virrat is set to remain in operation until 2020[/QUOTE] India at one time may have been a possibility, but not now. Any other Country with harriers has its own carrier, so no takers there. I reckon she has sailed her last mile and unless the good folk at Barrow pull off a miracle and bring her home for preservation, then sadly its just one last trip

[QUOTE=Jock3;114790]India at one time may have been a possibility, but not now. Any other Country with harriers has its own carrier, so no takers there. I reckon she has sailed her last mile and unless the good folk at Barrow pull off a miracle and bring her home for preservation, then sadly its just one last trip[/QUOTE] Jock3; me thinks that the good folk of Barrow would be better served in continuing to build new vessels for our much depleted Navy and allow this compromise vessel that is the Through Deck Cruiser to lapse into history, albeit when we have the two proper Carriers built. Little h

[QUOTE=TheNavyWouldNotHaveMe;114463]From what I can gather, there's ZH804, ZH811, ZD579. There were a few moved to SFDO Culdrose in 2007. These are used for ground handling training.[/QUOTE] There's 8-10 FA2s at Culdrose that are in full working order, used to train the deck crews at 'HMS Siskin' in a realistic manner. Getting them airborne would be more a matter of paperwork than refitting them.;)
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God - what a waste!

They would need at least a second line servicing. Interesting read here on GIA: [url]http://www.jap100a-01.mod.uk/Jap(d)/JAP%20100A%2001%20Chap%205.10.htm#_Toc173651763[/url]

Hi Everone. I agree - what a waste. I was responsible for some of the trials on Sea Harrier FA2 while I was in the Flt Test Dept at Dunsfold. With a track-while-scan radar and AMRAAM missiles, the FA2 was a formidable opponent. Replacing them with Harrier 9, a 'bomb truck', was just bloody crazy. Mel

Does anyone know ,whether the Flight-deck vehicles were toned-down like the rest of the ship,during the Falklands conflict?Previously these were painted yellow,it stand to reason that they would not be left that colour. Also ,were the flight-deck markings given a similar treatment? Thanks in advance regards ,Phil

Hi Phil, Have moved your Invincible query to this existing thread Would be greatful if you could use the search facility before posting. Cheers. If you need help mastering the search facility, have a look at the guidance here: [URL]http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7499[/URL]

[QUOTE=The Sailor;4361]Invincible was built at Barrow-in-Furness by Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering. She was laid down in 1973, and launched on 3 May, 1977. The ship commissioned on 11 July, 1980 and joined the older carriers Hermes and Bulwark in service. [B]Proposed sale and Falklands War[/B] On 25 February, 1982 the Australian government announced that it had agreed to purchase Invincible for £175 million after several months of negotiations. The sale was confirmed by the Ministry of Defence. The ship would have replaced the Royal Australian Navy's HMAS Melbourne. :) On 2 April, 1982 Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands. On 5 April, 1982 a naval task force headed by Invincible and Hermes left Portsmouth bound for the South Atlantic. On 20 April, 1982 the British War Cabinet ordered the repossession of the Falkland Islands. The UK formally declared an end to hostilities on 20 June, 1982. Also in July 1982 the British Ministry of Defence announced that it had withdrawn its offer to sell Invincible and that it would maintain a three-carrier force. Although Argentina claims to have damaged this ship during the Falklands War this is officially denied by the British Government :mad: In December 1983 Australia refused the use of dry dock facilities in Sydney for Invincible when the Royal Navy declined to say whether the ship was carrying nuclear weapons ;) The carrier's air group comprised nine Harriers and twelve helicopters (usually all Sea Kings, either anti-submarine warfare (ASW) or Airborne Early Warning (AEW) variants). The carriers also provide an operational headquarters for the Royal Navy task force. The runway is 170 m long and includes the characteristic "ski jump" (initially 7° it was later increased to 12°).[/QUOTE] Commodore of the Falklands Task force and Captain of Invincible Admiral Black is my cousin.

[QUOTE=Wellbran;132319]Commodore of the Falklands Task force and Captain of Invincible Admiral Black is my cousin.[/QUOTE] Very interesting. I understand that Admiral Black ('there and back with JJ Black') is, sadly, not very well at the moment. Perhaps you know more? Was he really the Commodore of the Falklands Task Force? The Naval Historical Branch book of the 'Royal Navy and the Falklands War' only shows him as 'Captain J J Black MBE, RN, Captain of HMS INVINCIBLE'.

I have not spoke to him for some time but He now has a role in the Royal household, but he lived near Southhampton for many years. I was told through my Aunt that he was the commodore as stated in his letters to her at the time, I was younger in those days! so I have heard that by word of mouth only. I have a photo of him sitting at his MOD desk (latterly) and also a big photo of Invinviible coming under the firth of forth bridge that he gave to me. As for his health I do not know, I expect he would not know about my health if he were asked about me either.

[QUOTE=Wellbran;132485]I have not spoke to him for some time but He now has a role in the Royal household, but he lived near Southhampton for many years. I was told through my Aunt that he was the commodore as stated in his letters to her at the time, I was younger in those days! so I have heard that by word of mouth only. I have a photo of him sitting at his MOD desk (latterly) and also a big photo of Invinviible coming under the firth of forth bridge that he gave to me. As for his health I do not know, I expect he would not know about my health if he were asked about me either.[/QUOTE] Wellbran, Thank you for that. Yes he used to have a small farm in the area but I don't know if he is still there. I met him on a number of occasions but not whilst I was serving in HMS INVINCIBLE. He was awarded the MBE for, I think, his very brave raid on Indonesian rebels during 'Confrontation' he and Captain Moore RM, led a rescue mission up the river to save hostages in Limbang. In the gun battle five Royal Marines were killed and seven severely wounded but the hostages were liberated. He was a kidly man and popular whilst Captain of HMS INVINCIBLE. If somebody had done particularly well he would reward them on the spott with a chocolate bar. After the Falklands his men would say 'There & back with JJ Black'. I think he has written a book about his experiences but I have not seen it. If anybody has read it perhaps they could recommend it.

Chocolate bars?....you mean "Nutty" thats what my Dad always called it! As for Admiral Commodore Captain Black...well if you ever see him tell him that He was remembered by his Auntie Joyce (nee Branwell) as she used to look after him at home when he was a small boy. Glad to know he was popular with the men.

[QUOTE=Wellbran;132657]Chocolate bars?....you mean "Nutty" thats what my Dad always called it! As for Admiral Commodore Captain Black...well if you ever see him tell him that He was remembered by his Auntie Joyce (nee Branwell) as she used to look after him at home when he was a small boy. Glad to know he was popular with the men.[/QUOTE] Wellbran, Thank you - you are absolutely right I should have said 'nutty' bar (I have been out too long time, that's my excuse). If I see him I will certainly pass on your words and if I hear anything of him here in the Portsmouth area I will let you know.

I read today its now decision time :- For-Sale or Scrap ??? Barrow are making their case to have it there but I don't think it will happen I would like to see it sited in Pompey near the Victory and turned into a floating Fleet Air Arm Museum ??? We would then have two great ships one made of wood and the other made of steel and both with great history.

Scrapping options there are only really three sites (outside of MOD yards) Ghent, Graythorp & Merseyside. There maybe one or two more sites but, I think it will go to one of the three sites mentioned if the decision is to scrap her. There would be public outcry if they do send her and is beached somewhere.

Do you know what, if they sent her here(link below) they would save themselves a whole ton of money...and thats what counts..and you know I would not be surprised if our Gov't were to do just that...as...see the images here...the word slavery springs to mind My Dads prediction is coming true, he said back in the 60's "One Day we will not have a Navy" [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/3558527.stm[/url]

If anyone has the spare cash, Invincible is up for sale .... follow the link and just click the 'add to cart' button ... [url]http://www.edisposals.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/Disposals-Public-Site/en_US/-/GBP/ViewStandardCatalog-Browse?CatalogCategoryID=VaLAqBELPagAAAED8GeasfoP[/url]

I note on the tender form it has "engines removed" I wonder why? - to service Ark/Illustrious? or some other reason.

[QUOTE=navalis;140054]If anyone has the spare cash, Invincible is up for sale .... follow the link and just click the 'add to cart' button ... [url]http://www.edisposals.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/Disposals-Public-Site/en_US/-/GBP/ViewStandardCatalog-Browse?CatalogCategoryID=VaLAqBELPagAAAED8GeasfoP[/url][/QUOTE] Now that ARK ROYAL is going to be available I wonder if they will market it under 'BOGOF' (buy one get one free).

Tow her to just off the coast of Somalia, stick international helicopters/gunships on her and use her as a floating airbase to combat the pirates...

Would it be possible to berth her somewhere and open her as a tourist attraction? I'm just thinking that the Yanks have so many ships preserved as musuem ships and we only seem to have HMS Belfast, Victory and Trincomalee.

GaryH, unfortunately there is an extremely complex and costly procedure in bringing a warship to museum status. Even a project like HMS CAVALIER (the last WWII destroyer) was fraught with financial, siting and logistical problems. She was previously located at three non profitable locations before arriving at her present, relatively safe, dock in Chatham Historic Dockyard. But for the generous donations from the National Lottery Fund she may not have secured her present role as a fitting tribute to the 164 Allied Destroyers and crews who perished during WWII. Preserved warships need back up roles nowadays and not just nostalgic memories. ShineySheff's submission that HMS INVINCIBLE be towed offshore to Somalia seems to have some substance to it until we remember the Royal Navy's recent propensity for capitulation on the high seas. One of the crew could have his iPlayer confiscated during a pirate attack ...... :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=GaryH;140104]Would it be possible to berth her somewhere and open her as a tourist attraction? I'm just thinking that the Yanks have so many ships preserved as musuem ships and we only seem to have HMS Belfast, Victory and Trincomalee.[/QUOTE] You forgot the oldest [U]British built [/U]warship still to exist, the Trincomalee's sister ship HMS Unicorn in Dundee. [URL="http://www.frigateunicorn.org/"]http://www.frigateunicorn.org/[/URL]

I thought HMS Victory was [U]British built.[/U]The Mary Rose also exists and could also fit the description. [URL]http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?Itemid=104&id=71&option=com_content&task=view[/URL]

And just to add to your timely correction Jim, HMS VICTORY is still in Commission in the Royal Navy.;)

Don't forget there is "Warrior" also in Portsmouth.

You'd think the RN would look at least have 1 Invincible class carrier in permanent reserve. One looks back to the Falklands war and the the MOD looking to reactivate HMS Bulwark to give them another carrier but she was in a poor state. The UK was caught short there and had the Argentinians delayed the invasion until the sale of Invincible to Australia, well who know, but surely the outcome would of been much different? Always wondered about that. Surely it was common knowledge that Invincible was being sold. Did the Argies jump the gun? In flogging off Invincible and Ark Royal, the RN should be saying "Remember the Bulwark" to the pollies.

[quote=mstary1;140177]You'd think the RN would look at least have 1 Invincible class carrier in permanent reserve. One looks back to the Falklands war and the the MOD looking to reactivate HMS Bulwark to give them another carrier but she was in a poor state. The UK was caught short there and had the Argentinians delayed the invasion until the sale of Invincible to Australia, well who know, but surely the outcome would of been much different? Always wondered about that. Surely it was common knowledge that Invincible was being sold. Did the Argies jump the gun? In flogging off Invincible and Ark Royal, the RN should be saying "Remember the Bulwark" to the pollies.[/quote] I am 100% in agreement with you Mark. While I appreciate the poor state of the economy how much would it have cost to keep the Ark Royal in permanent reserve?? For the relatively small amount involved it should have been done. I feel sure that there must have been other areas of defence that could and should have been "cut" before this to my way of thinking essential insurance policy was cancelled. The fact that many others share our point of view does not make me feel any better over this myopic decision....:(

[QUOTE=jbryce1437;140129]I thought HMS Victory was [U]British built.[/U]The Mary Rose also exists and could also fit the description. [URL]http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?Itemid=104&id=71&option=com_content&task=view[/URL][/QUOTE] Sorry I missed out one vital word that being "afloat". The curator of HMS Unicorn states she is " the oldest British built warship [U]afloat"[/U]




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