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RN Submarines: E-Class World Naval Ships Forums Archive

RN Submarines: E-Class

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[FONT=verdana][SIZE=2]During the night of August 19, 1915 the British submarines E.8 and E.13 attempted to pass through the narrow waters of the Sound, between Denmark and Sweden.The submarines were on passage to reinforce the British submarine forces already operating in the Baltic area Danish and Swedish Naval vessels were patrolling the Sound, protecting the neutrality of these two countries during the Great War. In combination with heavy mining in the waters, this short passage could quickly turn into a nightmare The British submarine E.8 succeeded the passage without being spotted. The CO had chosen a route close to the Danish coast, leading him to the west of the small Danish island, Saltholm. E.13, commanded by Lieutenant Commander Geoffrey Layton made a course close to the Swedish coast, leading the sub east of Saltholm. However, the E.13 ran out of luck. Apparently due to a compass failure, the E.13 ran aground in shoal waters, somewhat to the southeast of Saltholm. At dawn the grounding was observed by a Danish naval vessel on patrol in the Sound. The nationality of the submarine was at this moment unclear to the Danes. The Danish guard ship, the old gun boat FALSTER, was anchored just to the west off Saltholm. Danish Naval Command issued the following order: If the submarine is German, and other German ships are trying to assist, you shall deliver an official protest. No other means are allowed. If the submarine is English, you must forestall any attempt to seize or attack the submarine. First you should signal an official protest, and if no respect is shown to the protest, you are allowed to use all necessary means available." Around 5 a.m. the Danish torpedo boat NARHVALEN, was the first ship at the scene and could make a positive identification of the grounded submarine, as a British E-class submarine. Upon arrival, the Danish torpedo boat NARHVALEN immediately went along-side the grounded British submarine and informed E.13's commanding officer (CO), Lieutenant Commander Geoffrey Layton, that the E.13 in accordance with the Danish neutrality and International rules, was required to depart from Danish territorial water within 24 hours or the ship and crew would be interned. Additional shipping was ordered to the site of the E13 grounding and included the torpedo boats SOULVEN the TUMLEREN and the STOREN. Around 8.45 a.m. the 3 Danish torpedo boats arrived at the scene. Meanwhile German naval vessels on patrol just to the south of Saltholm, in the northern part of Koege Bay, had also observed E.13' predicament. The Danish Torpedo Boat STØREN reported that a German torpedo boat passed close by the stranded E.13. Initially, the German torpedo boat did nothing other than to keep the E.13 under observation. At 10.28 a.m. the CO of the SØULVEN reported two German torpedo boats approaching from the south at full speed. The German torpedo boats G132 and G134 approached the E.13 from the south. An attack on the British submarine E.13 was doubtlessly being initialized. On the mast of the G132, one could observe the signal "Abandon ship" being communicated to the E.13. Immediately upon coming within firing range, the G132 fired a torpedo aimed at the E.13. However, the torpedo missed its target and exploded upon striking the sea floor bottom close to the E.13. The German torpedo boat immediately thereafter employed its deck gun against the defenseless British submarine. Within a short while the sub was hit several times and fire broke out onboard. The electrical batteries on the sub had been hid and poisonous chlorine gas was spreading inside the sub. After a short time, the sub's CO, Lt.Cdr. Geoffrey Layton, ordered his crew to abandon the burning submarine - There was nothing else they could do in the situation. The attack on the E.13 lasted no more than 3 minutes. Immediately after the British CO had ordered his crew to abandon ship and British submariners were attempting to swim the few hundred meters to firm ground, the Danish torpedo boats finally intervened. The Torpedo Boat SØULVEN, who was anchored close to the British submarine, slipped her anchor and immediately turned to full speed. At the same time the SØULVEN launched one of her lifeboats trying to rescue some of the surviving submariners then she sailed in between the British submarine and the German torpedo boats, approaching the German torpedo boats at full speed, to protest against this violation of the Danish neutrality. At the same time, the Torpedo Boat STØREN also sailed in between the E.13 and the German torpedo boats, and began rescuing the surviving British submariners swimming around in the water. However, immediately following the Danish intervention, the G132 and G134 aborted their violent attack and were proceeding southward at full speed. The surviving British submariners, 14 in total, including the CO, Lt.Cdr. Layton, were later brought to Holmen Naval Base in Copenhagen by the Danish Torpedo Boat STØREN. On the very same day, the Royal Danish Navy retrieved the bodies of 14 dead British submariners, all drowned. A few days later, the body of the 15th and last submariner was retrieved. All the dead submariners were brought to Holmen. During the whole episode the English Naval Ensign was flying from the short mast of the E.13. The E13 crew now had to face the fact that, for them, their participation in the Great War was over. They would be interned in Denmark, and would only be released at the conclusion of hostilities. For most of them, this is what happened. The CO and the 1st officer escaped sometime later and returned to England. The wreckage of the E.13 was later on salvaged by the Danes, and brought to the Naval Dock Yard in Copenhagen. After the end of the Great War the wreckage was sold for scrap. [/FONT][/SIZE]
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A good story Digger. I read it all and researched further. 15 Dead British Submariners The surviving British submariners, 14 in total, including the CO, Lt.Cdr. Layton, were later brought to Holmen Naval Base in Copenhagen by the Danish Torpedo Boat STØREN. On the very same day, the Royal Danish Navy retrieved the bodies of 14 dead British submariners, all drowned. A few days later, the body of the 15th and last submariner was retrieved. All the dead submariners were brought to Holmen. During the whole episode the English Naval Ensign was flying from the short mast of the E.13. A few more pics of that action
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What a time the sailors must have suffered in those early subs. Your most interesting post reminds me of the trials and tribulations of the subs in the Gallipoli campaign. Might put a post together on that story.

Here some scans showing some of the different guns fitted to the E class in WW1. None of the class carried guns pre-war (no RN subs did) but wartime soon saw things change. The North Sea based boats seemed to have initially received 6pdr guns on extemporised HA mounts, while the boats in the Med and Dardanelles received larger LA guns, as there were more opportunities for surface gun actions in these areas. E20 carried the largest gun on an RN submarine (apart from the M class), but was lost before she had a chance to use it. Dave
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Some great pictures there chaps. I have the launch set for E1, one of the Baltic subs that were eventually scuttled in what is now Helsinki harbour. E1 had a good if short career: she torpedoed and crippled "Moltke". The newspaper cutting is from "The Times" I believe and reads thus: LAUNCH OF A SUBMARINE Mrs. Anson, wife of Rear Admiral Charles E. Anson, Superintendent of Chatham Dockyard, on Saturday launched E1, the first of a new class of submarine boats. The usual secrecy has been observed in building the boat, but it is known that it is larger and more powerful than either of the submarines previously constructed at Chatham, and that it will carry a gun, which will disappear automatically before the vessel descends below the surface of the water. The launch, which was entirely successful, was witnessed by an assemblage composed of dockyard and naval officers and their families. It is expected that E1 will be completed and equipped ready for comission during the present financial year. E2 and E7 and E8 are to be built and completed at Chatham in 1913-14. The propelling machinery of all these submarines will be made in the dockyard. Hope this is of interest regards Jan

sorry guys forgot to upload the photo! Must be an age thing!! Jan
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Many thanks Dave - great Pics...

Great pics Dave, and interesting to see the one of the O boat at Arrochar. I stayed in a hotel directly opposite (possibly from where the photo was taken) last year. Needless to say, the depot is now unused and derelict.

The E-class submarines at Reval aboard the depot ship "Dvina", 1916:
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From The Times Archive 9th June 1913
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[U]E class submarines in Baltic:[/U] - E19 before cruising to Baltic; - E13 damaged by the German destroyer G132 by Danish coast; - E class submarine in Baltic (can somebody identify her?); - E18; - E class submarine in Baltic in wintertime (what submarine exactly?); - E class submarines aboard the depot ship "Dvina" (what exactly again?); - Crew of E19; - Rewarding British sailors; - British and Russian submariners on the "Pamyat Azova" (ex-"Dvina"), May 20, 1917.
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Hi Antoine, Have tried enhancing the photos of the unknown E's to see if it would yield any clues .... but it didn't ...!! Maybe it might help someone else to though. Great pics by the way ...
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Hi All, those photos, the first one is the E8, Gun & wireless deck tube aft of the CT. The iced up sub is E19. The one with the three beside Divina, hard agaist the Dvina with the 30 ft wireless mast in the stowed position is the E19, outboard of her is the E1, and forward of them both is the E8 which seems to be doing some sort of listing trials. Hope this helps DB

Another mystery solved;)

[QUOTE=BALTICSUBS;84169]Hope this helps DB[/QUOTE] THANK YOU!!!

Not a problem, i know these submarines very well and can easily pick which is which as all5 British subs in the Baltic had unique features. DB

[FONT=Verdana]There do not appear to be a tremendous amount of photographs of these two E-Class submarines. This (E39E41_1) is an original photograph (not a postcard) in my personal collection, on the rear of which is written, in pencil, that it was taken in Blyth, in 1918.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Blyth was a shipyard and submarine base during both World Wars.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Both submarines were group III of it’s class, designed as an overseas submarine minelayers.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][I]E39[/I] was built by Palmers, Jarrow, launched on the 18th of May 1916, and then completed by Armstrong Whitworth on the Tyne on the 30th. She was commissioned in October of the same year and spent her career with the 10th Flotilla on the Tees, before being sold for scrap in on the 13th October 1921. On the 13th September 1922, on her way to the breakers under tow, she foundered in Watick Bay, Milford Haven. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][I]E44[/I] was built by Swan Hunter, Wallsend, and launched on the 21st February 1916. On the 18th July, she was also commissioned to the 10th Flotilla. She was sold to the South Wales Salvage Company for scrapping on the 13th October 1922.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]The photograph also has written on the rear “HMS Lucia?” This is almost certainly correct as she is listed as the 10th Flotilla Depot Ship in August 1916, under the command of Captain Leonard A.B. Donaldson. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]E39_1: Photograph of [I]E39[/I] on the rocks some 120 metres outside Watick Bay on the Dale side of Milford Haven (date unknown). She was subject to heavy salvage, and although a popular dive today, there is little left of her now.[/FONT] [I][FONT=Verdana]Original source of photograph (E39_1) unknown. No copyright restrictions evident.[/FONT][/I]
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A really interesting picture of the two E-Class submarines with the depot Lucia. Many thanks for showing us the postcard Clive. :)

[FONT=Verdana]The E-Class submarines were designed for work overseas and had a slightly larger hull than the previous D-Class, in order to house her much larger 800 bhp diesel engines and 420 ehp electric motors. This, in reality though, only resulted in a small performance improvement over her predecessor.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]The larger hull did however allow for more fuel to be carried, and extra armament; 4 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (1 bow, I stern, 2 beam), with 8 torpedoes carried.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]E-Class were the first British submarines to have watertight bulkheads that enabled compartments to be sealed off in an emergency.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]A total of fifty-seven boats (3 groups) were built by a number of various shipyards from 1911-1916, urgent build programmes being accelerated by the outbreak of the War. Twenty-eight were lost in action.[/FONT] [I][FONT=Verdana]E1[/FONT][/I][FONT=Verdana] (ex-[I]D9[/I]) and [I]E2[/I] (ex-[I]D10[/I]) were built at HM Dockyard, Chatham, both being laid down on the 14th February 1911.[/FONT] [B][SIZE=3]Submarine E1[/SIZE][/B] [FONT=Verdana][I]E1[/I] was launched on the 9th November 1912, and commissioned on the 6th May 1913 (See post #5). When war[COLOR=#2a2a2a] broke out, she was attac[/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=#2a2a2a][FONT=Verdana]hed to the 8th Flotilla at Harwich, and [/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Verdana]on the 15th October 1914, she sailed from Harwich (commanded by Lt Cdr Noel Laurence) ) with [I]E9[/I] (Lt Cdr Max Horton) an [I]E11[/I] (Lt Cdr Martin Naismith) with orders to make their way to the Baltic to find and attack German warships. More of E9 and [I]E11[/I], and their Baltic adventure in later posts.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]After a gruelling trip, [I]E1[/I] and [I]E9[/I] arrived safely in the Baltic on the 18th October. During their perilous journey, Laurence, in [I]E1[/I], had encountered the light cruiser [I]Victoria Luise[/I], near Falsterbo Reef, but attack was made difficult by the fact that the water was shallow, and even when on the bottom, there was less than 15 feet above the conning tower. However, Laurence fired his bow torpedoes and then went to the bottom and waited. Unfortunately, one torpedo ran underneath the cruiser, and seeing the wake, the [I]Victoria luise[/I] was able to turn out of the path of the second, which ran across her bows.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Later on after meeting two more enemy ships which he could not get into position to attack, he pushed on to Bornhelm in the southern Baltic, before attempting to reach his final destination of the Russian port of Libau, which was to be [I]E1[/I]’s operating base. They negotiated heavy minefields in the harbour only to find that upon arrival, the base had been deserted. [I]E1[/I] eventually moved north to Lapvik, on the coast of Finland, where she underwent much needed repairs before continuing her prowling of Baltic waters with [I]E9[/I].[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]On August 15th 1915, [I]E1[/I] sighted a squadron of enemy battlecruisers steaming line abreast ([I]Seydlitz[/I], [I]Moltke[/I] and [I]Von Der Tann[/I]). They were part of a large force led by Von Hipper which was heading towards the Gulf of Riga on a mission to destroy the Russian naval forces in the Gulf and facilitate the fall of Riga to the German army advancing on the Eastern front. The weather conditions were awful with choppy seas, and fog causing low visibility. Upon the sighting, [I]E1[/I] went quickly into action and let loose two bow torpedoes, but then had to dive to avoid a squadron of destroyers that suddenly appeared out of the fog. The crew felt the concussion of an explosion but were unable to surface to periscope depth to see what had happened. One of the torpedoes had hit the bow of [I]Moltke[/I], but had only damaged her. She was able to limp back to port, and was repaired within a month. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]However, the attack unnerved Von Hipper and the planned German attack was aborted, preventing the base falling into German hands. For this, Laurence was presented to the Russian Tsar, who personally decorated him with the Order of St. George for saving the city of Riga. [/FONT] [COLOR=#2a2a2a][FONT=Verdana]In late 1915, Laurence was recalled home and Lieutenant Commander Fenner took command. During 1916 while operating in the Baltic, boats were painted bright red below the waterline and green with brown spots above.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#2a2a2a][FONT=Verdana]At the end of the war, Russia signed a separate peace treaty ([/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Verdana]Treaty of Brest-Litovsk)[COLOR=#2a2a2a] with Germany which demanded the surrender of any British submarines in a Russian port. On April 3rd 1918, [I]E1[/I], along with [I]E9[/I] and [I]E19[/I] left Helingsford (Helsinki) and were scuttled by their crews to avoid them falling into enemy hands.[/COLOR][/FONT] [COLOR=#2a2a2a][FONT=Verdana]E1-1: Postcard of [I]E1[/I][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#2a2a2a][FONT=Verdana]E1-2: Photograph of Noel Laurence and Max Horton (left)[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#2a2a2a][FONT=Verdana][I]Both pictures in the public domain.[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]
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[FONT=Verdana][B][SIZE=3]Submarine E2[/SIZE][/B][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]As previously mentioned, [I]E2[/I] was originally ordered by the Admiralty as [I]D10[/I], and laid down along with with [I]E1[/I] on the 14th February 1911 at Chatham. She was launched on the 23rd November 1912 by the wife of Captain Seymour Erskine, the Commodore of the Royal Naval Barracks at Chatham. [I]E2 [/I]was commissionmed on the 13th July 1913, and in January 1914 she was assigned to the 8th Flotilla which initially operated out of Porstmouth, but moved to Harwich at the outbreak of the War.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]In August 1915, commanded by Commander David De Beauvoir Stocks, [I]E2[/I] was ordered to the Dardanelles to relieve [I]E14[/I], which was commanded by Lieutenant Commander Edward Courtney Boyle VC. More of him in future posts.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Her passage was not an easy one. On her way though the narrows, just off Nagara, she became badly entangled in wire and nets. Half a turn of three and a half inch wire had had caught below her deck gun, and a full turn of smaller rope was wrapped round the conning tower. For ten minutes, Stocks tried to dive out of the tangle with the full force he could muster. Whilst in this position, surface boats, aware of her predicament, were dropping bombs down on top of her, some of which may have actually helped to free [I]E2[/I], as she was finally able to break free. As a result of this incident, the hull of the submarine suffered severe damage, causing leaks. She however continued on and managed to make a planned rendezvous with [I]E11[/I] and re-supply her with ammunition for her twelve pounder, before she left for the Bosphorus.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Stocks then went about trying to repair his boat. The gun mounting bolts had been sheared off during the struggle to escape from the ensnarement, and some of the rivets below the mounting were loosend, causing leaks that prevented diving to any significant depth. After several days, the gun was successfully re-mounted, and [I]E2[/I] went into action, successfully attacking coastal steamers and dows. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]On the 21st of August Stocks torpedoed and sank a 1500 ton steamer in Artaki Bay, and then on the 22nd sank a large steamer off Mudania pier. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]On the 28th of August [I]E2[/I], along with [I]E11[/I], both using their twelve pounders, bombarded a magazine and railway station at Mudania, a port on the shouth shore opposite Constantinople. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]The crew of [I]E2[/I], on hearing about the exploits of D’Oyly Hughes on [I]E11[/I], who swam ashore and blew up a railway bridge, decided that they too wanted to carry out a similar raid.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]On September 7th, [I]E2[/I]’s Lieutenant Lyon swam, carrying explosives, out to two dhows which he successfully blew up. The next morning, just after midnight, he swam out again, this time heading for shore by a small village 3 miles west of San Stefano. In front of him, he pushed a raft upon which was a guncotton demolition charge, his revolver, and his clothes. His mission, to destroy a railway bridge. [I]E2[/I] waited for Lyon, or the sound of an explosion confirming a successful result. But nothing was heard. They waited all day and still nothing. Then at the following dawn, they heard a massive explosion. They waited for Lyon to return, but he did not appear. At 7.00 a.m. Stocks was forced to sea, but returned again the following dawn, desperatley hoping for some sign of Lyon. He was never seen or heard of again.[/FONT] [I][FONT=Verdana]E2[/FONT][/I][FONT=Verdana] continued her operations, but with a man short and still suffereing from leaks. To add to their problems, fuel oil had made it’s way into her main fresh water supply, depriving the crew of drinking water. Then, as she passed through the Narrows she broke off one of her hydroplanes as she struggled to avoid more nets. Fianally, she managed to find safety with the rest of her patrol. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]It wasn’t until January 1916 that [I]E2[/I] was recalled from the Sea of Marmora, joining the Mediteranean Flotilla, at Malta, later in the year.[/FONT] [I][FONT=Verdana]E2[/FONT][/I][FONT=Verdana] was paid off on the 7th of March 1921 and sold to B. Zammit, Malta for scrap. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]David Stocks, as Commander of K4, drowned at the Battle of May Island 31st January 1918 when the submarine was accidently sunk, with the loss of all 55 crew, by the battlecruiser HMS [I]Australia[/I]. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]E2_1: Postcard of [I]E2[/I], date unknown but it looks as if the paying off pennant is being flown, which would put th date as March 1921.[/FONT] [I][FONT=Verdana]Postcard from my personal collection[/FONT][/I]
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The Times - 24 January 1974 [B] Vice Admiral Ashmore[/B][B]Submarines in the Baltic[/B] The recent death of Vice Admiral Leslie Ashmore has removed one of the last survivors of that colourful episode of the First World War the deployment of a flotilla of British submarines under Max Horton to the Baltic where they operated under Russian command. Ashmore was a Sub-Lieutenant in 1914 when he was appointed to the submarine E18 one of the boats which made the difficult and perilous passage through the Sound in the face of intensive enemy patrols expressly searching for them in water barely deep enough to cover them. Those that got through operated at first from a Russian depot ship at Tallinn, moving later to Hango in Finland. The harassing of German shipping in the Baltic by this flotilla caused the Germans ruefully to call it Hortons Sea. When some smaller C-Class boats were transferred to the Baltic by Archangel and the Russian river and canal system Ashmore was given command of one of them. The onset of the Russian revolution and the German advance towards Finland eventually forced the scuttling of the submarines by their crews who then travelled by rail to Archangel on passage to England. Subsequently when in command of another submarine in the Mediterranean, Ashmore responded for a call for volunteers with knowledge of Russian and became Intelligence Officer to the British Squadron supporting the White Russians at Sevastopol. A young Russian Guards officer named Shutt attached to him as liaison officer invited him to his parent’s villa in Crimea where they had fled from their home in St Petersburg; there he met Shutt’s sister Tamara falling mutually in love the married within three weeks. The marriage proved to be a lifelong romance. In 1938-39 Leslie Ashmore was Flag Captain to Admiral Sir Percy Noble C in C China Station an appointment which put the two men by consent the best-dressed in the Navy, in the same ship. Arthritis of the spine, which had developed in that time and which was to afflict him painfully and increasingly for the rest of his life, kept him at first kept him from service in the Second World War; but in 1942-43 he commanded the battleship Valiant and was awarded the DSO for the part she played in the operations at Salerno. In 1944 he achieved flag rank and served as Director of Naval Training. A heart attack in November of that year cut short his career but before retiring in 1947 held the post of Flag Officer Reserve Fleet. Leslie Ashmore will probably be best remembered for his humanity and integrity which made him a much respected and revere commander and leader of men. He is survived by his two sons Edward and Peter, whose brilliant careers must have been a source of great pride to him in his retirement. The former is an Admiral and is First Sea Lord designate; Peter is a Vice Admiral and Master of the Royal Household.

[I][QUOTE] [I]On August 15th 1915, E1 sighted a squadron of enemy battlecruisers steaming line abreast (Seydlitz, Moltke and Von Der Tann). They were part of a large force led by Von Hipper which was heading towards the Gulf of Riga on a mission to destroy the Russian naval forces in the Gulf and facilitate the fall of Riga to the German army advancing on the Eastern front. The weather conditions were awful with choppy seas, and fog causing low visibility. Upon the sighting, E1 went quickly into action and let loose two bow torpedoes, but then had to dive to avoid a squadron of destroyers that suddenly appeared out of the fog. The crew felt the concussion of an explosion but were unable to surface to periscope depth to see what had happened. One of the torpedoes had hit the bow of Moltke, but had only damaged her. She was able to limp back to port, and was repaired within a month. [/I] [I]However, the attack unnerved Von Hipper and the planned German attack was aborted, preventing the base falling into German hands. For this, Laurence was presented to the Russian Tsar, who personally decorated him with the Order of St. George for saving the city of Riga. [/I] [/QUOTE][/I] The actual events that happened were Horton had been trying to get in on these Battlecruisers the previous days, even coming under fire from Seydlitz. Moltke was hit after E1 replaced E9, then Moltke was escorted back to base by the other battlecruisers, after which Hipper went straight back to cover the force within the Gulf. E1 was not the reason for the Germans leaving, it was when they realized they could not hold the Gulf without the support of the Army and ground forces. This they did in 1917. So it was either propaganda or assumptions that the Germans fled due to E1, or both.

Thanks for clarifying that Balticsubs.

Hi Clive, post #19 shows Laurence, but i don't think that is Horton, looks nothing like the great man. Those 2 hated each other and had an extremely strained relationship in the Baltic, so i could not picture them so chummy like this. Also E39 & E44, these two subs during WW1 also operated from Murmansk and were tied to HMS Glory. From what i have worked out the Royal Navy was sending submarines to this little know area due to reports of German minelayers operating off there. There were also 3 G Class sent on this run, but that is a magnificent shot of E39 & E44.

Just a quickie, in my time in Kew recently i'm not sure whether people know other than documnets, they have a huge collection of builders photos of RN Vessels, one chap put me onto this and he ordered out photos of new RN Battleships, photos are huge and normally on thick backing. I copied all submarine photos they had, here is one, E25 about to be launched 23/8/1915.
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[quote=BALTICSUBS;142836]Hi Clive, post #19 shows Laurence, but i don't think that is Horton, looks nothing like the great man. Those 2 hated each other and had an extremely strained relationship in the Baltic, so i could not picture them so chummy like this.[/quote] That confuses me. although I admit to having the caption round the wrong way - now corrected. That is surely Horton on the left as a lieutenant? ... which he would have been then (around Aug/Sep 1914); not promoted to Commander until December. According to the photo source he is stood with Laurence during his time in the Baltic. Photogrpah of Horton as Admiral - the eyes and nose the same?
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E25 shown above was an oddity together with E26 as they were never ordered by the RN, but by Turkey as part of a large Naval contract. The original contract was with Vickers who had no spare capacity so sub contracted the building to Beardmores. Odd as they had never built a sub before, but the company were keen to enter the lucrative submarine construction market so a special covered double slip was built at their Dalmuir yard, completed in 1913 and construction commenced in Nov 1914. The outbreak of WW1 ensured no warships building for Turkey would ever be handed over, so the 2 were requisitioned and construction continued for the RN. E25 yard no520 launched 23 Aug 1915, completed 2 Oct 1915 E26 yard no 521 launched 11 Nov 1915 completed 20 Dec 1915 occupying berth next to E25 Costs of each boat £67488, contract £98953, a profit of £31465 Beardmores also built E53 and E54 for £111000 each and completed E47 and E48 being built by Fairfields after their launching. E25 survived WW1 and sold for bu 14 Dec 1921. E26 was lost on 6 July 1916

Darren (Balticsubs) hope this information is of some use to you, there may be some typos in it [B] Naval Honours London Gazette Appendix, April 20th 1918[/B] The Submarine Service The King has been pleased to approve of the award of the following decorations and medals to the officers and men in recognition of distinguished service performed in difficult circumstances and during a long period in British submarines operating in the Baltic Sea. Distinguished Service Cross Lt. B.N. Downie RN Mate J.P. White RN Distinguished Service Medal AB R Ambrose ON ERA 2nd Cl C Bateman ON 271891 (Ch) ERA 2nd Cl JD Carden Bonham ON M1213 (Po) ERA 3rd Cl H Bowles ON M742 (Ch) PO GG Harris ON 176377 (Po) Act Sto PO G Hutchins ON K23 (Po) PO HJ Ling ON 238181 (Ch) PO T McCarthy ON 216563 (Dev) Sto PO HG Mathews ON 300193 (Po) PO HA Smith ON 215511 (Po) Ldg Sto JJT Ursell ON 358524 (Po) Sto PO TJL Williams ON 305522 (Dev) ERA 2nd Cl H Wilson ON M438 (Po) Mentioned in Dispatches Lt Cdr. H Vaughan-Jones RN ERA 3rd Cl JW Brand ON 272304 (Po) Ldg Sea AE Carslake ON J3430 (Dev) Ldg Sea AJ Cossey ON J10240 (Ch) PO WH Croxall ON 213307 (Ch) PO W Gowler ON 181987 (Po) AB HB Haynes ON J3030 (Ch) CERA 1st Cl J McDougall ON 269398 (Po) PO J Mackie ON224035 (Po) PO J Mansbridge ON 193930 (Po) AB J Rayment ON 234573 (Ch) PO J Rooney ON 233239 (Dev) Ldg Sea SH Sayer ON J8975 (Ch) Sto PO GAA Scott ON 310703 (Po) Ldg Sto OE Selsby ON 307757 (Po) Ldg. Sea WFJ Simms ON 214773 (Po) AB AP Steel ON 214623 (Po) Ch Sto A Tuttle ON 293488 (Ch) Ldg. Sea SE Western ON J6283 (Dev) ERA 2nd Cl EA White ON M1660 (Ch)

[I][B]That is surely Horton on the left as a lieutenant? ... [/B][/I] Here is a definate shot of the brothers in arms, Horton on our left. These 2 hated each other, the Russians loved Horton and wanted his to stay on and command the British Flotilla, but Horton had gone behind his back, as Laurence was senior, and complained about him. Goodheart was in the Horton Camp, Halahan was in the Laurence camp, Cromie was not bought into it.
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Nice one Darren. And I reckon they are the very same as in the other photo ... at least now that I have the caption correct ..!! Thanks for raising it. Horton was surely one ouir greatest naval heroes.

Horton was the idol of many up and coming submarine officers, and rightly so as his exploits in E9 are the stuff of Legends. And he was the first man to fly the skull & cross bones to stick it up the rest of the navy calling them pirates. Had E9 been equipped with more reliable torpedoes he would have achieved much more. The photo, still not convinced, but, i guess you will notice, and it was his reputation, that photo may be rare, that he rarely smiled. And it was said, he could drink the Russians under the table. So a photo showing his smile not, normal.
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Interesting images, Baticsub.- I've two questions regarding them. Who is the Russian officer seated between Horton and his counterpart? Any idea who's spike helmet Horton is holding in the latter image? Regards

[I][QUOTE] [I]I've two questions regarding them. Who is the Russian officer seated between Horton and his counterpart? Any idea who's spike helmet Horton is holding in the latter image? Regards[/I] [/QUOTE][/I] No idea who that Russian Officer is, or why Horton has the Spiked German Helmet. I checked the book Forgotten Flotilla which has this photo of Russian, they have him listed as unknown, so if the sub museum who produced this book does not know, it will be hard to know who he is, I may send it to my contacts in St Petersburg. OK, here is some light reading for lovers of E Class subs.
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The German armoured cruiser SMS Prinz Adalbert attracted a lot of attention from the E class. 2 July 1915 torpedoed and damaged by E9 then no sooner than she was repaired the next encounter on 23 Oct 1915 torpedoed and sunk by E8 was her last. Virtually her entire crew perished in the huge explosion that rent her apart.

BALTICSUBS can you make this book

[I][QUOTE] [I]BALTICSUBS can you make this book[/I] [/QUOTE][/I] Book too big, if there is any particularpart you would like to see, some part of the submarine. let me know.

Following on posting by Peter, find here the awards to Lt Downie ; DOWNIE Basil N N/E Lt. RN 82O059 S/M E.19Commodore (S) 15.02.19 Gazetted Destruction of British Submarines in the Baltic 3 - 5 April, 1918 M in D Their Lordships' appreciation expressed of the successful execution of the duties of carrying out the destruction of the British Submarines in the Baltic, rendered necessary by the German advance on Helsingfors. DOWNIE Basil N N/E Lt. RN 82O050 S/M E.1 British Naval Liason Officer in Russia 26.04.18 Gazetted In British Submarines in the Baltic 1917 DSC At the time of the taking of the Osel and Dago by the enemy, he was obliged to take his boat, which was seriously damaged to Pernaw. He has operated in the Gulf of Riga ever since, and has eventually brought his boat safely through the Irben Strait to Helsingfors. I consider that he has shown considerable resource in difficult circumstances and deserves great credit. Sadsac

Hi. [QUOTE=Hank;143091]Interesting images, Baticsub.- I've two questions regarding them. Who is the Russian officer seated between Horton and his counterpart? Any idea who's spike helmet Horton is holding in the latter image? Regards[/QUOTE] It is the captain of 2nd rank (approximately commander) Fedor Vladimirovich Vasiliev-5th, the commander depot ship "Rynda". Best regards Alex
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Hi Alex, good to hear from you, wow, now i know who he is, the photo contains many other Russian Officers, did you think you could Identify more? The photo is not my property, so would have to send it via a PM. Not sure if you have my private email?

Hi BALTICSUBS. The officer have identified at Russian forum "kortic.borda.ru" known to you. Best regards Alex

Thanks Alex, just haven't been on there for some time, must have a look again:)

BalticSubs / Darren, in posting 28 Peter has thrown up what seems to be something of an `anomaly' !! He posts PO J ROONEY D 233239 (Born Liverpool) as receiving a `Mention' for services in C.26 BUT, in a previous contact with you, you have given me a J ROONEY K17697 (Born Carlisle) as being C.26. You have him posted as AB, but as you can see, by his number `K' he must have ben a STOKER. I know (from our meetings in KEW) that you have many ADM 188's - so have you got the 188's of these two ratings ??? There are other anomalies / typo's in the list, so will come back on them later. What think you. Sadsac

Hi Deniis, hope this helps, just checked his papers Rooney Joseph 233239 Petty Officer Coxswain Forth 25/11/1911, Arrogant & B5, Maidstone, E19 Base in Baltic & C26, Dolphin & Jan Draft Home, Dolphin & F1, Maidstone & H51 to Baltic, left subs 27/2/1920 This is only Rooney i have on my data base. Do you have an S Olsen from early days and served on Hollands?

Darren, no further info on OLSEN & Hollands I am afraid. Find here details of submarine service of ROONEY JOSEPH PO SC D 233239 MiD RN 011287 111125 TC 111125 FORTH 141101 ARROGANT 160720 MAIDSTONE C26 160801 E19 SC 180115 DOLPHIN F1 180710 THAMES F1 180905 THAMES F1 181007 DOLPHIN ADDL 181122 DOLPHIN H51 181125 PEMBROKE YARD ADV P H51 190704 MAIDSTONE TO VIVID FOR G/S 28/2/20 AWO 38/20 Rooney, Joseph, Leading Seaman, #K17697 of Carlisle, Cumberland, Born 17-11-1894. Rooney was part of the orginal crew that took C26 out to the Baltic. Rooney was rated a Petty Officer Coxswain on the 18-6-1917. Rooney received a Mention in Despatches while in the Baltic. Rooney departed Helsingfors in the Baltic, via Petrograd to Murmansk, by train with the main group. Once in Murmansk they travelled to England on the armed merchant cruiser Andes, an ex Royal Mail liner, arriving back in England on the 15-1-1918. ADM 188 / 413 P.o.B ; LIVERPOOL LANCS MiD Awarded London Gazette 20 April 1918 for Operations in Baltic ROONEY JOSEPH L/SEA ???? K 17697 MiD RN 171194 NE P.o.B ; Carlisle ADM 188 / 902 MiD Awarded London Gazette 20 April 1918 for Operations in Baltic C.26 THIS ENTRY IS SUSPECT - SEE PO J ROONEY D 233239 Will get ADM 188 for both on my next visit PRO to try to sort out `anomaly'. My Email address here also. Sadsac

Hi Dennis, the dates for Rooney's return is wrong in January 1918. I can see a particular website, well all i can say, i showed them some of my working notes, next minute they were used on their website, and these dates were only what is shown on their papers, which as you know do not refect actual events. So arriving back in England on the 15th is wrong. I will check the Stoker number on my data base.

OK Darren, be interested to see what you come up with from your info base. The date of 15 Jan 1918 for his return to England is taken from his Service Record Card - not always `correct' - BUT !!!

Will look later, but when they stepped onboard Andes that is when their papers change to HMS Dolphin, from memory it was something like the 22nd of Jan they got home.

AH, I see now Darren, all is revealed. Of course DOLPHIN would become his `base' straight after leaving his prior boat / ship. Sadsac

E8 was commanded by Cdr Francis H H Goodhart, describing his attack on SMS Prinz Adalbert as straightforward. Ref my post 34. Using the bow tube and avoiding a destroyer the torpedo ran true striking the cruiser, distance 1600x after running 1 min 15 secs. Flames erupted from under the bridge and along the waterline. A further look amidst the smoke and she was gone all at once. A Mk V111 is some stuff. Awarded the DSO and Russian St George's Cross. Goodhart remained with E8 for the rest of 1916 when he was recalled and given command of the new K14, then building. He had commanded E8 since prior to the outbreak of war as part of the 8th flotilla based on the Maidstone at Harwich. He had also previously commanded C6 and D3. Keen to learn about the intricacies of his new command, he went to sea on sister K13 and was on board the day she sank in the Gareloch on 29 Jan 1917 at 1500 hours He lost his life the following day whilst attempting an escape to assist the rescuers in their efforts to save her crew. For this he was awarded by the King a posthumous Albert Medal in Gold, gazetted on 29 Apr 1918, for gallantry in saving life at sea. Goodhart was recovered on 1 Feb and on the 6th was buried at Faslane Cemetery.

I don't know if any of you guys are interested in these pictures of engines for the E & K Class Submarines made on tyneside by Wallsend Slipway & Engineering works.Incidently these pictures were found in a skip along with dozens of others. Regards Dave
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