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HMS Javelin World Naval Ships Forums Archive

HMS Javelin

Posts 1 to 24

[url]www.hms-javelin.co.uk[/url] My father, Derek Amey, served on javelin as a 'hostilities only' rating in the Mediterranean campaign 1942/43 Any history/photos relating to Javelin gratefully received via the above site or via e-mail. Thanks, Harry Amey

Here is a photograph I have uploaded of a destroyer HMS Javelin - wearing a F61 pennant. I have been asked to as near as possible put a year to it. Anyone up in the world of pennants prepared to venture an educated guess?
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Terry, According to Wikipedia this is the gen! Quote HMS Javelin (F61) was a J-class destroyer of the Royal Navy laid down by John Brown and Company, Limited, at Clydebank in Scotland on 11 October 1937, launched on 21 December 1938 and commissioned on 10 June 1939. At the end of November 1941, the 5th Destroyer Flotilla comprising HMS Jupiter, Javelin, Jackal, Jersey and Kashmir, under Captain Lord Louis Mountbatten, were operating out of Plymouth. The flotilla engaged the German destroyers Hans Lody, Richard Beitzen and Karl Galster. The Javelin was badly damaged by torpedo and artillery hits from the German destroyers and lost both her bow and stern. Only 155 feet of Javelin's original 353 foot length remained afloat and she was towed back to harbour. Javelin was out of action for almost a year. Javelin participated in the Operation Ironclad assault on Madagascar in May 1942. She participated in the failed Operation Vigorous attempt to deliver a supply convoy to Malta, in June 1942. HMS Javelin was sold for scrap on 11 June 1949 and broken up at Troon in Scotland. Unquote. Ian

The Royal Navy Pennant Numbering System Pennant, or Pendant, numbers were introduced to help to abbreviate signalling and to help make signals more secure, they also served to clear up confusion between ships with similar names and as an aid in identifying ships visually, particularly where ships of the same classification were grouped in a Squadron. During the war, many ships were transferred between Commonwealth and Allied Navies. Where this did occur, the ship usually kept the same Pennant Number (even though the ships name may well have changed). If a ship was sunk in action, it was usual for the Pennant Number of that ship to be allocated to the next ship to be launched. Renaming of ships was also regularly carried out. During and after the war, some ships had received up to three or four changes of Flag Superior, with many destroyers changing from F to G in 1940, then to L, and later to R, and finally to D after the war. Usually, ships of the same Classification were grouped under the same Flag Superior, although this wasn’t always the case. Due to shear numbers of ships in the Second World War a greater number of Flag Superior allocations were in use. Today, the Flag Superior generally helps to identify the Class of ship, i.e. A – Auxiliaries, D = Destroyers, F = Frigates, R = Aircraft Carriers (A already in use for Auxiliaries), S = Submarine. Until the Second World War, it was usual for submarines to have only a Pennant Number and no name, Winston Churchill directed that all Submarines be named. Some minor ships had no Pennant Number, whilst others had them removed from photographs due to censorship. It is believed that the pennant system was last revised in 1947. G51 JAVELIN F61 JAVELIN Not sure when these numbers were allocated to her, but she was G51 during the war and may have been allocated F61 after 1947.

Thanks Jim - that in fact sort of ties in with my opinion - which was 1945/1946. Great stuff sir! Sorry about that Ian - I knew about the ships history it was just the date of the photograph I was after!

The photo is certainly of her [U]pre-war[/U]. She carried F-61 when first completed, changing to G-61 in 1940. Also the paint scheme, with funnel markings is very 1930's. A very similar photo to this is reproduced in John English's book 'Afridi to Nizam' and is dated August 1939. By the end of the war she had undergone considerable change, including having a lattice mast with radar installed, and a pole mast aft with HF/DF aerial.

She stayed as G-61 after 1940, not being in service when the pennant numbers were re-organised in 1947/8, being reduced to Reserve in July 1946 and was used for shock trials in 1947-8 in Loch Striven and the Gareloch before being sold for scrap in 1949.

Must admit that seeing her with the pennant number F61 had me baffled as all (?) of the postwar destroyers were allocated the pennant D. The destroyers that were converted to frigates were allocated the pennant F. In this photo she looks as if she is in her original configuration and this could well be a pre-war photograph.

Many thanks for all your input on this. Harry who runs the HMS Javelin web-site wishes to use this photo there and asked me for a date if possible...

Hello All and a happy Easter to everyone (If thats your thing ).One has to be very "PC " nowadays. Yes once again the "Pennant Numbering System " rearing it's confusing head. According to many naval historians who agree with me on this is that for "Visual Signalling" purposes her number was changed on 31/05/1940. So this photograph is therefore Pre 31/05/1940. Hope this helps. Tomsam

Absolutely Tomsam. It ties in exactly with the comments above. Many thanks.

[quote=tomsam;7591]Hello All and a happy Easter to everyone (If thats your thing ).One has to be very "PC " nowadays. Tomsam[/quote] OMG! Is it Easter? Well, everyone, have a happy chocolate binge. :p

[ATTACH]116608[/ATTACH] Part of crew HMS JAVELIN
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What a fascinating photo bootneck 2. Is there any more information about it that could help date it?

I will check with the rest of the family.All I know at the moment, it was during the war. My father Mat Binley is on the top row on the right as you look at the photo.

I have just found this thread. A few years ago I lived next door to Rear Admiral Tony Pugsley, a lovely man, and I attended his funeral in 1990. He named his house JAVELIN and he hung the ship's bell outside the front door, which sometimes caused a commotion when the local lads were wending their uncertain way home from the pub and decided to wake up the village in the middle of the night! Best wishes

[QUOTE=al1934;10132036]He named his house JAVELIN and he hung the ship's bell outside the front door, which sometimes caused a commotion when the local lads were wending their uncertain way home from the pub and decided to wake up the village in the middle of the night! Best wishes[/QUOTE] What an interesting and amusing anecdote, Alick! Just one question though, do you happen to know whatever became of the ship's bell? Thank you for posting!

[QUOTE=RNfanDan;10132038]What an interesting and amusing anecdote, Alick! Just one question though, do you happen to know whatever became of the ship's bell? Thank you for posting![/QUOTE] Here [url]http://www.hms-javelin.co.uk/hms-javelin-bell.htm[/url] Closer to you than it is to me, RNfanDan! The Admiral, as he was known to us all in our village, wrote a fascinating book "Destroyer Man", published by Weidenfeld and Nicolson. It is now out of print but someone, somewhere probably has a copy to sell. Well worth it when you get it. Sorry, but you can't have mine! The Admiral signed mine and it is priceless to me. Here's his obituary. Best wishes
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I was catching up on this thread as the ship caused me one big headache when researching another ship. Javelin was initially a K-class ship, don't believe everything wiki says. She started life as Hms Kashmir. Hms Kashmir a J-class started life as Hms Javelin. The MOD decided to change the names of both to move them into their respective classes. I'm still looking for a photo of Hms Kashmir all these years later, I only know of one photo which shows Kashmir at a distance between the gun barrels of another ship. Regards Alan
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[QUOTE=alanbenn;10134587] I'm still looking for a photo of Hms Kashmir all these years later, I only know of one photo which shows Kashmir at a distance between the gun barrels of another ship. Regards Alan[/QUOTE] Quite a number here: [url]http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=hms%20kashmir&items_per_page=10&f[/url][0]=contentDate%3ASecond%20World%20War

Thanks for the link Dick much appreciated, but yet again not a single decent photo of Kashmir, other than the usual one mentioned in the post previous taken from Hms Kipling. Maybe one day a good one will surface. Sadly the person I wanted it for crossed the bar a good few years ago now. Regards Alan

Alan, this looks to be about the best on the web, but maybe you have seen it. [url]http://www.iwmprints.org.uk/image/727194/hms-kashmir-1941[/url]

[QUOTE]Alan, this looks to be about the best on the web, but maybe you have seen it. [/QUOTE] Thanks for taking the time to look but yes that's the photo I refer to in previous posts. Regards Alan

Does anyone have a current contact email address for Harry Amey who I assume is the owner of the HMS Javelin website. ([url]http://www.hms-javelin.co.uk[/url]). While clearing my late father's bungalow I came across a newspaper cutting relating to funds raised for HMS Javelin during Warship Week in 1941 at Stoke-on-Trent. I emailed on 21st Oct the address listed on the website, but have not yet received any response. Thanks in advance, Robert Rushton

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