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RN Training Ships World Naval Ships Forums Archive

RN Training Ships

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First novice post and any help/info would be appreciated. I have a distant relative from Kinsale, Cork, Ireland who was a teacher in RN and have obtained his service records from National Archives. He was born 1857 signed on/joined Boscawen 1873 and went on to serve on the following vessels as a teacher? (as shown 1881 Falmouth and 1891 Portland census): Duke of Wellington, Boscawen, Fisgard?, Provident, Ganges, Adelaide, Thalia, Curacra, Impregnable, Ganges, Boscawen, Black Prince and Emerald. I believe he left the RN in December 1903 and received a pension. Can anyone tell me if the above were all training ships/establishments and whether they were all UK based? Any ideas what Schoolmr with seniority means (1904). Are any further records held anywhere Thanks Pam

Welcome Pam. I might be totally wrong but could it be just an abbreviation of schoolmaster?:confused:

In the 19th Century, and possibly before, training in the use of guns/ equipment was generally done by "instructors" - who would people who have been trained and are efficicient in the use of such equipment, such as a Gunnery Instructor, or GI, or Torpedo Anti Submarine Instructor, or TASI, etc. "Schoolies", as they were affectionately known, were generally used to teach traditional subjects, such as Arithmetic, English, etc. Schoolies could be shore based or ship based. There were numerous at HMS Collingwood and we also had at least one on the old Ark Royal, who taught English, Maths, etc., to GCE level. Although most of the ships, if not all at that time, that you list were sea going vessels at some time in their service, they may have been on "Harbour Service" for training purposes. HMS Thalia, for instance, was a Wood screw corvette built in 1809, but was used as a Troopship by 1886. By 1891 she was reduced to a Powder Hulk and became a base ship in 1915. Duke of Wellington was built 1852 and was on Harbour Service from 1863 until 1904. Boscawen was the first of line of training ships and was carried out by a number of ships, which were subsequently renamed Boscawen for that role, and included Trafalgar 1841, Minotaur 1863, and Agincourt 1865. Similarly, Fisgard was another line of training ships and the following were renamed Fisgard to undertake the role: Audacious 1869, Invincible 1969, Hindustan 1841, Sultan 1870, Spartiate 1898, Hercules 1868 and Terrible 1895. Consequently, more than one vessel could have been undertaking the role at the same time. The attached photos show two vessels acting as HMS Fisgard in the 1920's
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How many of you can remember your very first time/week on which ship,during those days. I can just remember that we had to board H.M.S ULSTER up at Newcastle . And we were on her for one week.Sailing down to pompey on the Monday forenoon ,and arriving some time Friday. I don't think any silly thing happened ,but just finding your way about the ship ,when being watch-on-deck ,being the first time on a ship......port side look out ..sorry mate ,Wrong side!!!!OOP,S Cylla

Whilst at Ganges, our week of sea training was one week alongside in Portsmouth on HMS Wakeful. Like you, we were supposed to go to sea on HMS Ulster. For some reason she wasn't available and we were sent to the HMS Wakeful who just happened to be alongside for two weeks A.M.P. The ships company must have enjoyed it as they had plenty of extra hands scrubbing and painting Dave

good day no i do not remember mine much at all i joined the glamorgan whilst she was visiting cardiff in apr 1971 my kit bag was chucked down into 3d mess and i was grabbed by big ginge told the booze was cheap & i had to back onboard by 2359 - maybe i think we were there 5 days & then the short hop back to guzz or something like that - we were the only devonport based county & if i remember right had the most senior skipper afloat who did not take any prisoners but v fond memories

First ship I went to sea in was as a Sea Cadet......we had a week (or fortnight, can't remember which) in HMS PLOVER. Went onboard several ships at Chatham Navy Days, same year (1956)...........BIRMINGHAM, OBDURATE, TYRIAN, LEEDS CASTLE. Dipped out on sea training whilst at GANGES as down with Asian Flu, but the rest of the class had a week onboard SUPERB.

I did my sea training Sept 1963 on HMS Virago at Portland. Can't remember most of it as for the one and only time I was violently seasick.

[quote=Scurs;110169]First ship I went to sea in was as a Sea Cadet......we had a week (or fortnight, can't remember which) in HMS PLOVER. Went onboard several ships at Chatham Navy Days, same year (1956)...........BIRMINGHAM, OBDURATE, TYRIAN, LEEDS CASTLE. Dipped out on sea training whilst at GANGES as down with Asian Flu, but the rest of the class had a week onboard SUPERB.[/quote] Scurs are you sure it was a week, or one day

We did our Sea Training(1959) on HMS Paladin,joining her at Parkstone Quay Harwich.She was loading mines.We departed for Rosyth and laid the mines en-route.Never fitted so many soluble plugs to mines in my life.Visit to Rosyth Dockyard and HMS Caledonia,then back to Ganges on the train.Lots of deck scrubbing/paintwork washing was the other task that we were good at when we left.Our Insructor was chuffed that none of his boys had been seasick.So were we.
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[quote=whalerman;110254]I did my sea training Sept 1963 on HMS Virago at Portland. Can't remember most of it as for the one and only time I was violently seasick.[/quote]I was a ships company greenie on Virago it was the worst ship or submarine I have ever served on. Hated it!!

Hi There to every one who have posted,.....did any of you ever do any live firings during your "sea-training. Thou i notice most of us were on type 15 frigate,s. cylla

Did my basic sea training on the two IMS's FLINTHAM & AVELEY. We went for a jaunt along the coast to Fowey. Then Specialist sea training on a variety of Tons in Rosyth.

[quote=CYLLA;110306]Hi There to every one who have posted,.....did any of you ever do any live firings during your "sea-training. Thou i notice most of us were on type 15 frigate,s. cylla[/quote] We had a live shoot in the Type 15 HMS URCHIN on passage from Santa Cruz to Chaguaramas, February 1963. It was a pretty terrifying experience for those of us not long from sitting behind a school desk. As you rammed the 4inch shell up the breach with your fist the solid block swung up automatically and closed the breach – very painful if your arm was still anywhere in the vicinity of the block!! - quite a few bruises that day! Glad I was not a gunner.
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I don't think that we fired the 4" on the Undaunted when I was on her. I joined in November '67and by Christmas it was gone and a accommodation hut was put in it's place. We fired the 40/60 many times Dave

[quote=INVINCIBLE;110316]We had a live shoot in the Type 15 HMS URCHIN on passage from Santa Cruz to Chaguaramas, February 1963. It was a pretty terrifying experience for those of us not long from sitting behind a school desk. As you rammed the 4inch shell up the breach with your fist the solid block swung up automatically and closed the breach – very painful if your arm was still anywhere in the vicinity of the block!! - quite a few bruises that day! Glad I was not a gunner.[/quote] Hi Invincible , Where did you do live firings ...would it have been "Roosevelt Roads"???? cylla

[quote=CYLLA;110325]Hi Invincible , Where you did live firings ...would it have been "Roosevelt Roads"???? cylla[/quote] No we did not go to Roosevelt Roads, where so many of our ships went for training on the ranges there. We were on passage to Trinidad and fired a target rocket to engage with our 4inch guns. I went to the "Windies" in three ships but unfortunately never made it to Roosevelt Roads.

[quote=qprdave;110164]Whilst at Ganges, our week of sea training was one week alongside in Portsmouth on HMS Wakeful. Like you, we were supposed to go to sea on HMS Ulster. For some reason she wasn't available and we were sent to the HMS Wakeful who just happened to be alongside for two weeks A.M.P. The ships company must have enjoyed it as they had plenty of extra hands scrubbing and painting Dave[/quote] Got a good sea training week we had four days in gib joined the venus in plymouth went to gib and came back to portsmouth(that may have been the other way around the old grey cells you know )

My first sea training ship as a Junior SBA,was two weeks on ADAMENT.Portsmouth to Lisbon,then back to Portsmouth.The thing I remember was the Fish and Chip van on the jetty in Lisbon,I put what I thought was Salt on my chips.OH NO it was Sugar!!!:D Talk about a strange taste. Regards Steve. PS Because I was too young to work on a ward ar Haslar,I got "Sea Training" extra time on HMS Vanguard! Two weeks round the buoy at Pompy then steaming crew for the tow to Falane and the breakers.Would not have missed that for the world.Fancy in 1960 having on your CV served " on a Battleship".:D

I did two weeks on HMS Wakeful whilst at HMS St Vincent 63/64. Also managed a week on MFV109 to Cherbourg & back and 10 days helping out on a gin palace whilst the Admirals Cup yachts Kurrowa (Ozzie) & Sovereign (Brit)fought it out in the Solent to see who would actually do the race against the holders. Sovereign lost !!! Not bad for a Junior Seaman 2nd class under training.

1953/54 - No Sea Training for Comms at Ganges - but we did get a half day familiarisation visit to HMS Swiftsure courtesy of the Seamanship School. Seaman as I recall did some trips on the ORWELL or OBDURATE and of course SWIFTSURE. We went straight in the deep end when we joined our first ships which to me was UNDINE which had a boys mess under the Limbo Bays and the Killick of the Mess was a grizzly old three badger called SNELL. The Seaman boys carried on their training but the two Comms Boys went straight into watches. Dave H

[quote=steve roberts;110359]My first sea training ship as a Junior SBA,was two weeks on ADAMENT.Portsmouth to Lisbon,then back to Portsmouth.The thing I remember was the Fish and Chip van on the jetty in Lisbon,I put what I thought was Salt on my chips.OH NO it was Sugar!!!:D Talk about a strange taste. Regards Steve. PS Because I was too young to work on a ward ar Haslar,I got "Sea Training" extra time on HMS Vanguard! Two weeks round the buoy at Pompy then steaming crew for the tow to Falane and the breakers.Would not have missed that for the world.Fancy in 1960 having on your CV served " on a Battleship".:D[/quote] Steve, Were you onboard on 4 August 1960 when VANGUARD broke from her tow and was wedged solid across Portsmouth harbour mouth? must have been quite an experience.

Thought it might be a place for the various training ships which have existed over time to be collected together. Starting with this Training Ship HMS Caledonia (ex HMS Impregnable) moored at South Queensferry.
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Great photo.

The source is the University of Aberdeen from the collection of George Washington Wilson and Co. The Admiral class barbette ship (either HMS Rodney or HMS Howe) in front of the Forth Bridge as South Queensferry guardship dates it to sometime between 1896 and 1901.

Magnificent photo as its in Black and White, very clear..

Not a bad idea for a photo gallery, Kevin. ;) We will all have to look through our photographs/pictures and see what can be found. My first thought is that like your opening post choice of Caledonia, there were many old "wooden walls" that provided sterling service as RN training ships during the end of the 19th century and early 20th century. I include below another classic example, HMS Cambridge.
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Indeed many then became shore establishments close to the moorings of the old vessels so their names lived on long after those wooden walls had rotted away.

Only today I came across this lovely sepia toned photograph of a training ship "parked" in front of the Old Royal Naval College at Greenwich. Unfortunately it did not mention her name but hopefully someone might be able to identify her. :confused:
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Wondering if it is actually a ship see the site mentioned and enlarge the photo and the cannon in front looks identical. [URL]http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/sea-and-ships/facts/faqs/ships-and-vessels/the-ship-used-as-simulation-for-navy-school[/URL] Could this be one of the "Fames"? Found this photo of one of the Fames captioned "Royal Hospital School training ship Fame with boys climbing the rigging" It is a big waterline model. Very interesting though this could be the forerunner of the modern ship simulator.
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I think you have pretty much nailed this Kev! She was in fact a simulated training ship called the [I]Fame[/I] - apparently there were three [I]Fames[/I] in succession and none was in reality an actual vessel. Looking at it objectively what could be better than a purpose built Training Ship!! ;)

I think she is marvelous, very cost effective and still a training ship as far as I'm concerned even if she is without a keel.

As we intend to have a gallery for training ships it is important we get a few more pictures under our belt. Rather than show exclusively old and RN examples this one is the far more recent HMAS Arrow taken sometime during the 1970's.
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[quote=Blaydon;10075637]Indeed many then became shore establishments close to the moorings of the old vessels so their names lived on long after those wooden walls had rotted away.[/quote] That's right Kev, Caledonia became the ERA's school overlooking the Forth Bridge on the Rosyth side.

[quote=astraltrader;10075645]I think you have pretty much nailed this Kev! She was in fact a simulated training ship called the [I]Fame[/I] - apparently there were three [I]Fames[/I] in succession and none was in reality an actual vessel. Looking at it objectively what could be better than a purpose built Training Ship!! ;)[/quote] The USN had some of those as well. USS Bluejacket, Naval Recruit Center Orlando, Florida (general-purpose training aid) USS Electrician Naval Operating Base Hampton Roads 1 1921 Electrician school grads NSN USS Electrician USS Electrician announcement Schenectady Gazette Saturday Feb 28 1929 USS Electrician demolished postcard Actually a recruiting aid, not a training ship... but: USS Recruit under construction 1917 Union Square Manhattan USS Recruit From Side USS Recruit Cleaning USS Recruit conning tower USS Recruit volunteers painting
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BUZZARD RNR Training ship moored on the Thames at the embankment Photographs from the National Maritime Museum. No Known Copyright restrictions. Dave
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Thanks for those shots of TS Buzzard Dave, very much appreciated. Also thanks to Jon for the series of purpose built "ships!"

Obviously there will be other entries perhaps some of the old Ganges vessels and maybe someone might have a photo of the Greenwich training ship Warspite in that role.

[quote=Blaydon;10075968]Obviously there will be other entries perhaps some of the old Ganges vessels and maybe someone might have a photo of the Greenwich training ship Warspite in that role.[/quote] I posted photo's of the old GANGES Vessels [URL="http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showpost.php?p=129786&postcount=895"]MINOTAUR & ADVENTURE[/URL] moored of the old shotley pier around 1906-10 on the GANGES thread a while back, You still access them by clicking on their names. Dave

Here's a turn of the 20th Century colour photo of HMS Impregnable in Plymouth. Peter
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Peter, thanks for the excellent photo of HMS Impregnable. It is of special interest to my wife because both her father and uncle joined the RN and trained aboard her in April 1927 at Plymouth. They joined as boy seamen 2nd class and left as boy seamen 1st class in May 1928 to join HMS Cornwall for a three year commission on the china station. Fred.

[quote=harris;10075989]Peter, thanks for the excellent photo of HMS Impregnable. It is of special interest to my wife because both her father and uncle joined the RN and trained aboard her in April 1927 at Plymouth. They joined as boy seamen 2nd class and left as boy seamen 1st class in May 1928 to join HMS Cornwall for a three year commission on the china station. Fred.[/quote] My pleasure. Here is HMS Worcester. It's a scan of an old cigarette card picture. Incidentally, not long ago I bought a book entitled [I]Nautical Training Ships: An illustrated History[/I] by Phil Carradice. I bought it from a local branch of The Works for a couple of pounds or so. It's an excellent history of training ships with some lovely photos. Peter
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Defiance, Perseus, Flamingo & Cleopatra, Devonport 1908.
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[quote=Andy Waugh;10076034]Defiance, Perseus, Flamingo & Cleopatra, Devonport 1908.[/quote] That's an interesting photo, Andy with ships of the fleet anchored in the background. Peter

Great photo Andy, Defiance was still in use until the early 50's.

DEFIANCE was actually sold for scrap in 1931. The vessels collectively known as HMS DEFIANCE until the mid 1950's were HMS ANDROMEDA, HMS INCONSTANT and HMS VULCAN. Regards.....Paul

[quote=Andy Waugh;10076034]Defiance, Perseus, Flamingo & Cleopatra, Devonport 1908.[/quote] It must have been a hot day in Devonport, all the ships in the background have their awnings rigged. It's a great photo of the way things were.

Trying to establish whether my father ever trained as a boy sailor on HMS Impregnable around the period 1912 to 1918. Would there be records held anywhere ? Lawrence ( Australia )

Hi Lawrence, his service record would show the ships he served on. You can download a copy of his record from the National Archives [URL="http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D6894869"]here[/URL] at a modest cost of course. Jim

a photo of Conway from the National Library of New Zealand.
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