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National Historic Ships: HMS Victory World Naval Ships Forums Archive

National Historic Ships: HMS Victory

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Gentlemen We all know that the state of our beloved RN is way below the waterline, but now the MOD are really scraping the barrel, or should that be bottom, to save/raise extra funds. Your attention is drawn to a story on the BBC News site which states that the MOD is examining a series of options for the maintenance of HMS Victory - such as making it a charity or a public body. Those who are interested in or involved with our naval heritage are well aware what that means!! Loads of extra money - in your dreams.......!!!! Perhaps they ought to consider floating it again and giving trips around the dockyard and the warship. Perhaps not, look what happened to the Mary Rose!! REgards Mik

Can't see the RN getting rid of her, pretty soon she will be the only ship that they have left. I thought she was back in the fleet, and didn't realise she was still in refit. She has kept a few generations of dockyard matey's in work.:D;)

If this story is true, then it's sick. A ship with the significance of Victory must be fully preserved at any cost. This should be done by the British Govt. They could spend some of their massive surplus on it. Perhaps they're too busy protecting their jobs.

I dont know where you got your "massive surplus" from?

From the BBC. Apparently it's around £20 billion.

Sure the same BBC that yesterday was predicting falling into a recession...

[quote=astraltrader;20977]Sure the same BBC that yesterday was predicting falling into a recession...[/quote] Well ... ... they are wrong there. You're already in one.

[QUOTE=mik43;20907]Gentlemen Perhaps they ought to consider floating it again and giving trips around the dockyard and the warship. [/QUOTE] Bit Difficult as the keel is cut though and the masts are stepped on pillars on the dock floor!

It would be unfortunate if it ended up in the wrong hands.

[quote=astraltrader;21069]It would be unfortunate if it ended up in the wrong hands.[/quote] I can't see how it could seeing as it's still a ship of the RN.

If you had been listening to the news you would realise that might well not be the case for long.

Strangely, I don't listen to English news on radio or TV. I can't think why. However none of the daily British news emails I receive have made any mention of this. Which is why I am in the dark. Perhaps you might care to explain the situation.

I cant think why either. You are quite capable of accessing all news and newspapers online. I am also sure that you are able to listen to the BBC World Service. But why not start here. [URL]http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&q=hms+vICTORY&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1245433391&sa=X&oi=news_result&resnum=5&ct=more-results&cd=1[/URL]

[quote=astraltrader;21082]I cant think why either. You are quite capable of accessing all news and newspapers online. I am also sure that you are able to listen to the BBC World Service. But why not start here. [URL]http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&q=hms+vICTORY&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1245433391&sa=X&oi=news_result&resnum=5&ct=more-results&cd=1[/URL][/quote] You said "listen". I said I regularly receive several British news emails. And that none of them have made mention of Victory's situation. I asked you to explain what's happening to the future of Victory. Are you going to do that or not?

If you read the links you will see the future of Victory is up in the air. That there is any possibility of change of owner is unacceptable to many. It is quite straightforward really.

I am disappointed to hear about this. Victory is a national treasure that must be protected at all costs. But then again, there are countless other examples of cultural treasures being put at risk in that country so this news doesn't come as a surprise to me. I despair of a Govt. that has no regard for its culture. Only for their own futures it seems. The link you provided has answered some of my questions. Thank you for it. I now wonder what is being done to correct this appalling situation. Complaining is of no use, despite being a national past-time. Peoples heads need to be punched.

It seems strange, as the MoD have sold all their remaing shares in QuinetiQ and made a mint. Perhaps that is where the £20 million has come from. Surely thy can afford VICTORY especially as she has just received a massive overhaul. The Country would be in uproar if she were pensioned off to a charity etc, not to mention moral in the Senior Service !!!!!!

Absolutely agree Rik - the trouble is that this government does not seem to give a toss about the morale or the opinions of the senior service!

IMhO, not taking care of the RN's Victory is a renunciation of your rich naval heritage that helped make the UK what it was, notice I say was. Just like my country way to many people have no comprehension of history and what it SHOULD mean in everyday life today. Aaahh, ignorance is such bliss....... I fervently hope your government wakes up to the signifigance and importance of H.M.S. Victory for the UK! I have fond memories of your beautiful country and its friendly people from business trips I took there in the mid 80s when I worked for J.I. Case. DFO :(

Moronic penny-pinching threatens symbol of British naval heritage, HMS Victory [COLOR="Red"]News that the MoD is considering forcing the Royal Navy to disown HMS Victory and then palm her off to a private company or charity to save tiny amounts of money reveals the rotten core of this government.[/COLOR] Admiral Nelson achieved success that was the foundation stone for British sea power that dominated the globe for 150 years. Flogging off Nelson's flagship cannot simply be seen as a rational cost-saving measure but must be interpreted as a calculated and deliberate insult to the Royal Navy. This is an affront to our national heritage and typical of this moribund government and politically correct civil service, petty-minded, short-sighted and idiotic. This idea could almost be seen as something more sinister; is there an element in government with deliberate plan to discredit and dismantle the RN completely? From a UK website....DFO :eek:

With this government it would not surprise me DFO.

thought you might like this pic taken in about 1973 when my father was a Portsmouth, pic by the resident snapper but rather good and well composed... Enjoy it while it lasts! tim PS Did you hear that the MoD is planning to ask for HMS Belfast back, just as soon as they can find the matches to relight the boilers...
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This is the Evening News report on HMS Victory on the 13th September, regards, Bob
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Fear not gentlemen Prudence will fix it all. With the cost of fuel and energy as it is, North Sea oil nearly all gone, and winter upon us, this could be a vote winner, cheap fire wood anyone. What a mess this Goverment has got us into. Regards Harry

G'Day After reading these posts, and as an outsider on the other side of the world I have watched with growing dread as the "World's First Navy" as I've often been told by RN Vets here, has gone into decline since the 1960. I grew up learning of Victory's role in naval history, I had friends when they were in the UK visit the ship for me, I still use my Victory mug bought for me thirty years on. A very small piece of her deck was given to me a few years ago, it is a valued possession. I know from Britons what pride they have in this great ship. But this affront to not only the Royal Navy, but to the UK as a whole, knowing what HMS Victory has done, and the men that manned her, makes me wonder what is happening in the UK. Question is...can those that give a damn about one of history's greatest warships ensure its survival from political stupidity? If it survived World War II, a bunch of idiotic politicans can't destroy her! Can they? I hope and pray NOT! Ian

That b+w 1973 photo of Victory is OUTSTANDING! I sure hope your fine socialist leaning UK govt wakes up, but they do have "priorities" now don't they? Why isn't the UK one of them? Just my observation from the west end of the N. Atlantic. OTOH we may get [COLOR="Purple"]ohbaaahhMEE[/COLOR] and won't that be fun?...DFO :rolleyes:

It is a great picture of HMS Victory. There are plenty of others in this thread... [URL]http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1792&highlight=VICTORY[/URL]

I do one day hope to have a career in the armed forces, and hope to be able to stick to my principles somewhat, consequences be damned. So if I ever was the First Sea Lord, and a MoD Budget Manager came along... BM: 1SL, we want you to study the ways in which "Victory" can be funded off the RN's books in the future. You know the score; charity, PFI, or the status quo. But we have to do something! Me (for it is he): No. BM: What? Me: I said no. I will not even contemplate the thought that the world might think that the Royal Navy won't pay even to maintain Nelson's flagship. I'd sooner resign. BM: It may well come to that. Me: Then so be it. And then free of my commission I will publicly shame you into doing the right thing. The Navy and the MoD state categorically that the "Victory" will remain a Royal Navy ship. If so then it should be funded the same way it has through 243 years - by the Navy and the Navy alone. People may mention the part the SNR played in her restoration but there were a lot of serving naval officers who took up the cause and brought it to fruition. The problem is the Navy needs a new bank manager, but unfortunately the Chancellor of the Exchequer will not like be replaced by anyone worth a damn until the next General Election in 2010. Simon

THE LIFE OF A WORKING SHIP. H.M.S. VICTORY. H.M.S. Victory is the fifth ship in the Royal Navy to bear this name. Her story begins at Old Single Dock, Chatham, where on the 23rd July 1759 her keel was laid. Built to the designs of Thomas Slade, senior surveyor to the Royal Navy, she was a 1st rate three deck 104 gun ship of the line. H.M.S. Victory was launched on 7th May 1765, but it was not until July 1778 that she saw action for the first time against the French in an indecisive engagement off Ushant. After bearing the flags of Admirals Hardy, Greary, Hyde, Parker, and Kempenfelt, she became flagship of Lord Howe, and in 1782 took part in the relief of Gibraltar and the Battle of Cape Spartel. In 1793 H.M.S. Victory under the command of Lord Hood, evacuated Toulon due to an unknown Artillery Officer, “Napoleon Bonaparte”. The first of many encounters to take place between these two opponents. After the siege of Calvi in 1794, Cape Hyeres in 1795, and Cape St. Vincent in February 1797, she returned to Chatham, and from 1797-1800 her distinguished fighting career was temporarily interrupted and she became a Hospital Ship for Prisoners of War. During the following two years she underwent a very extensive refit, which rebuilt her into the ship we know today. In July 1803 H.M.S. Victory arrived in the Mediterranean as flagship of Lord Nelson, Commander-in-chief. In 1804 after loosing his own ship at sea, “Lord Elgin” asked his friend Lord Nelson, to transport what are now known as the “ELGIN MARBLES”, from Greece back to England on board H.M.S. Victory. On 15th September 1805 Nelson left England in H.M.S. Victory to take command of the fleet blockading Cadiz. Thus was the scene set for the most decisive battle ever fought at sea. On 21st October 1805 off Cape Trafalgar, the combined fleets of France and Spain were beaten. H.M.S. Victory was so severely damaged that she had to be towed to Gibraltar for temporary repairs, and on the 3rd November with Nelsons body on board, she sailed for Portsmouth. She arrived at Spithead on the 4th December and for a week her battered sides and jury masts were reminders of the cost of the victory. On the 22nd December she arrived at Sheerness and it was here that the body of Admiral Nelson was transferred to the Commissioners Yacht. On the 9th January 1806 the flag of Lord Nelson was lowered for the last time. In January 1809, H.M.S. Victory brought home Sir John Moore’s army from Corunna. H.M.S. Victory returned to Portsmouth from her last sea voyage in November 1812. Where due to the end of the Napoleonic wars in 1815, she remained in reserve until 1824, when she became flagship to the Portsmouth Command. In 1900 H.M.S. Victory once more put to sea to train officers and men in gunnery command. She was put back into dry dock in 1921, where public subscription raised over one hundred thousand pounds to restore her to her former glory. In 1940 during the Second World War, the dock yard was bombed. One of the German planes singled out H.M.S. Victory as his target, and one of his bombs landed between the ships hull and the dock wall. This explosion blew out the side of the ship, slightly injuring one of the dockyard workers and one seaman. (The last casualties ever recorded on H.M.S. Victory). H.M.S. Victory has survived through time to remind us of the long and varied service she has seen; As Warship, Troop Ship, Hospital Ship, Cargo Ship, and Depot Ship. Altogether a Historic Monument. Her Battle Honours are: USHANT 1778 USHANT 1781 TOULON 1793 ST. VINCENT 1797 TRAFALGAR 1805 BALTIC 1808 I have visited this ship on many occasions, I consider it to be a “National Treasure” and its contribution to history and everything it stands for should not come down COST! Personally I think it should be housed within a purpose built building, to keep it out of the effects of the weather, and preserve it for future generations to appreciate. Wombat, (James).
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[B]"God bless you Hardy. Thank God I have done my duty."[/B] Nelson's dying words ... Now it's time for the Government to do it's duty! First, I have a limited edition model of Victory, one of 1805 with a plank from Victory as the base. It was sold to help pay for the last refit. Every little bit counts. I bought it to commerate my Dad and his role with the RAF as a WWII pilot with 611 Squadron. It's not a RN connection, but somehow, Victory is just as important to we Americans as a symbol of courage and freedom. We love our Constitution (Old Ironside), but everyone knows of Nelson and Victory. The model cost me a bloody fortune, but it was well worth it. I keep Dad's RCAF, RAF, and USAAF wings just below it. Second, the book [B]Traflagar: An Eye Witness To History[/B], edited by Tom Pocock, London, The Folio Society, 2005 is a magnificent telling of the great story. It is gathered from letters and first hand accounts including Admiralty records so that all the events leading up to and after Traffalgar live on and capture the imagination. I urge anyone interested in Victory to read this one-of-a-kind book. Somehow, England will rise to protect Victory. I can't imagine the Government not responding to this situation. In 1831, When Thomas Hardy was the First Sea Lord, he told his wife that he had just signed an order for the breaking up of the Victory. She insisted that he must go back to his office and tear the order up. A modern researcher examined the minute book and found that the page had indeed been torn out. Perhaps it is time for the women to join the men of England and put their foot down again and insist on saving Victory. Victory notes: Length, 227 feet ... 3,500 tons displacement .... 2 feet thick English Oak at her waterline ... Her construction took 6,000 trees ... Her mainmast is 205 feet ... 26 miles of rope in her rigging ... cost of L 63,176 or L 2.5 Billion today ... 350,000 people visit each year. Fred Morsheimer Amherst, NH USA

THE BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR. (Summary). Daylight on 21st October showed the fleets to each other, the day was fine but at first hazy. The wind was westerly dropping away at times almost to calm, and a heavy swell from the west gave warning of an approaching storm. As dawn broke Nelsons fleet formed into two columns, one led by Collingwood in H.M.S. Royal Sovereign, the other by Nelson in H.M.S. Victory. With a total of 27 ships under his command the feature of Nelsons column was the massing of three impressive three deckers, H.M.S. Victory, H.M.S. Temeraire, and H.M.S. Neptune. Nelson intended to smash through the enemy’s centre where their own heavy ships would almost certainly be waiting. At the head of Collingwood’s column was his flag ship Royal Sovereign, she had only rejoined the fleet on the 8th October with a fine new copper bottom, that made her the fastest in the fleet. Whilst the fleet was closing at a speed of three knots or less, Nelson visited every deck of H.M.S. Victory and addressed a few words to the men on each. At 11.40 Nelson ordered the signal “Close Action” to be hoisted at the top-gallent masthead, and there it remained until shot away. H.M.S. Victory closing at a speed of one and a half knots remained under fire for 40 minutes, to which she could make no effective reply. A double headed shot killed eight marines in the poop and wounded several more. Victory’s 68 pound Carronade, containing one round shot and a keg filled with 500 musket balls was fired right into the cabin windows of the Bucentaure, causing a loss of 400 men. 20 guns were immediately dismounted and Bucentaure was practically put out of action by this one terrible blow. Redoutable, one of the best ships in Villeneuves fleet, now came into conflict with H.M.S. Victory, but her Captain realizing they couldn’t match British Seamanship and gunnery, decided to lock the two ships together in a duel to the death. Redoutable’s tops were full of trained marksmen pouring small shot down onto H.M.S. Victory’s deck, whilst Victory’s guns were shooting away their ship from underneath them. At 1.25 a marksman in Redoutable’s tops fired at Nelson as he paced Victory’s deck. The wound was fatal, his life did not out-run the battle nor see his victory. Seeing H.M.S. Victory’s sparsely manned deck almost stripped of men, Redoutable’s marksmen tried to board. Captain Adair seeing the impending danger gathered a party of Marines and seamen and with fierce fighting repelled the boarding party. Before Redoutable’s men could re-group, H.M.S. Temeraire opened fire on her decks, bringing about the extraordinary spectacle of a French two decker sandwiched between two British three deckers, none of them able to move. H.M.S. Victory sustained 159 casualties. During the action the little 64 gun H.M.S. Africa missed her course, and found herself at the head of the column. Captain Digby misinterpreting his orders proceeded to exchange fire with every French and Spanish ship he passed until he reached the 128 gun Spanish flag ship Santissima Trinidad. When she did not reply, he sent a boarding party from his “pigmy” to take the “giant”. To the embarrassment of Captain Digby, they were courteously asked to leave, and were permitted to return to their ship. H.M.S. Victory was extensively damaged and had to be towed back to Gibraltar for repairs. Wombat, (James).
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CAPTAIN THOMAS HARDY. As Captain to H.M.S. Victory, Thomas Hardy is best remembered by Nelson’s dying phrase, “Kiss me Hardy”. On 19th December 1796 Nelson fought an engagement against two Spanish ships off Cartagena. He sent aboard two prize crews, one of which contained Lieutenant Thomas Hardy. Nelson had to withdraw, leaving Thomas Hardy to be taken prisoner of war when further Spanish ships arrived on the scene. Fortunately an exchange of prisoners was arranged, which included Thomas Hardy. Most people don’t realize that Hardy continued to serve long after the Battle of Trafalgar. During 1819-1823 he commanded the South American Station, and played a key role in establishing Argentina and patrolling her coastline and trade routes. Thomas Hardy’s discipline was crude and violent; and his methods were often to be frowned upon by other gentlemen officers. After the death of Lord Nelson Hardy became a Baronet. Wombat, (James).
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During the early seventies, 1973-4 my father was CinC at Portsmouth which of course made his flagship HMS Victory (as she is for all in this position). Around this time he was also presented with a commemorative plate relating to the anniversary of the founding of the ancient Order of the Bath. Someone thought it would be nice to box this up for him and so it was put into a box-frame made from Victory oak and the details were inscribed onto a small copper panel inside the box beaten from one of Victory's copper rivets that was being replaced in a part of her continuous maintainence programme. The dust jacket of Richard Hill's book "Lewin of Greenwich" shows him onboard Victory. Very often the Great Cabin was used to entertain visiting VIPs, I seem to recall that during this comission the Russian Fleet paid a visit, the first since the notorious Buster Crabbe incident with the Sverdlov, and their seniors were entertained in the Great Cabin. All best tim

With the state of the RN, had Nelson been around to day, his quote - "I SEE NO SHIPS" would have been quite apt....George

Ahoyhoy folks while trawling through the internet in a never ending quest to know absolutely everything about nothing in particular I came across this [url]http://www.nmm.ac.uk/mag/pages/mnuExplore/PaintingDetail.cfm?ID=BHC3701[/url] which is a painting of Victory under restoration in the 1920's We've all seen plenty of pictures of Victory as the depot ship afloat in Portsmouth Harbour, and its obvious she looks quite different to how she looks now, so i was wondering if anyone had any information (and preferably pictures) of the dry-docking of Victory and the refurbishment, I've never seen any picture of that, and cant believe there are no photos of it. Also, during the war she suffered slight bomb damage, are there any photos of the damage? and lastly (but not leastly) is Victory able to float anymore? (and anyone who hasn't already seen it, here's the Photo Gallery thread of Flagship of the Fleet [url]http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1792[/url] )
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I had seen this painting reproduced in a magazine years ago. Great to see it again, especially with the link to the description of the painting and its historical accuracy, with representations of the likes of Admiral Sturdee, head of the restoration committee, Sir Phillip Watts (former Chief of Naval Construction) and the artist and his family as well. It's like and old friend coming to visit after a long absence with more sea tales to tell. Thanks for putting it up, Andy!

We American's love our USS Constitution and both ships hold a similar place in our respective nation's naval lore, but in truth, HMS Victory is the pinnacle of the fighting ship in the 'Age of Sail.' 'Victory' Forever, Fred

[QUOTE=Andy3E;86534]Ahoyhoy folks while trawling through the internet in a never ending quest to know absolutely everything about nothing in particular I came across this [url]http://www.nmm.ac.uk/mag/pages/mnuExplore/PaintingDetail.cfm?ID=BHC3701[/url] which is a painting of Victory under restoration in the 1920's We've all seen plenty of pictures of Victory as the depot ship afloat in Portsmouth Harbour, and its obvious she looks quite different to how she looks now, so i was wondering if anyone had any information (and preferably pictures) of the dry-docking of Victory and the refurbishment, I've never seen any picture of that, and cant believe there are no photos of it. Also, during the war she suffered slight bomb damage, are there any photos of the damage? and lastly (but not leastly) is Victory able to float anymore? (and anyone who hasn't already seen it, here's the Photo Gallery thread of Flagship of the Fleet [url]http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1792[/url] )[/QUOTE] Have put a note on the Victory Gallery - my nostalgia, and Wyllie the artist and his home!!! Edna

I still remember the furor caused when the Pompey News reported as an April Fool prank that HMS Victory was being prepared to return to sea to participate in the 1977 Queen's Silver Jubilee Review. The paper was inundated with requests from people who desperately wanted to be on board for her sailing, including many schoolchildren who ended up being bitterly disappointed. It was only then pointed out that her masts were cemented into the bottom of the dry dock because her structure had become too fragile to support them. Best wishes, Rob [URL="http://www.mcdoa.org.uk"]www.mcdoa.org.uk[/URL]

Thought ya might get a kick out of this [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2WdU3Zkeig[/url]

Splendid, thanks for posting

Good Link.Thanks for posting.OOH Me Poor Ears!!! Even though in my branch I would have been on the Orlop Deck,that would have rattled the old ear wax. Cheers. Steve.:D

Terrible for the hearing, but I should have loved to have been there! Edna

Hi All I am trying to obtain as much information I can on my late Father George Henry Harris On checking his service records I note that he spent a good part of his service on board HMS Victory , Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks a bunch Ken Harris :confused::)

[QUOTE=Kenneth Harris;97024]Hi All I am trying to obtain as much information I can on my late Father George Henry Harris On checking his service records I note that he spent a good part of his service on board HMS Victory , Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks a bunch Ken Harris :confused::)[/QUOTE] Hello Ken, it is most likely that it was the Royal Naval Barracks Portsmouth where he served. Much confusion was caused because the vessel and the barracks had the same cap tallies. This was later alleviated by the renaming of the barracks to HMS Nelson. As well as the Royal Naval Barracks wearing the "Victory" cap tally, a number of satellite establishments also wore that cap tally, such as the Fleet Maintenance Unit. Ratings who served on the ship Victory, generally as guides, normally had their service records annotated as HMS Victory, my trade certificate is annotated HMS Victory (FMG). Are you able to provide any further details of his service, such as the dates he served in Victory? Jim

Hi JIM, just read your bit about the wearing of H.M.S. Terror cap tally, do you know when that started? I've read some about it but no dates given, I served 1950/62 and it wasn't during that time. regards. STAN

Hello Stanley, if you are referring to my post, I was writing about HMS Victory not Terror. Jim

HMS VICTORY( the ship) during WW2 served as a training ship.(Not a lotta people know that!!!!!!!!!) HMS VICTORY(Shore base) was classed as a Royal Navy Barracks,later in the 70s renamed HMS NELSON.

[QUOTE=ceylon220;98992]HMS VICTORY( the ship) during WW2 served as a training ship.(Not a lotta people know that!!!!!!!!!) HMS VICTORY(Shore base) was classed as a Royal Navy Barracks,later in the 70s renamed HMS NELSON.[/QUOTE] Thats right Jim that is where I went when I first joined up in 1956, stayed there for six weeks. When I got to Ceres I wished I'd stayed there. I still have the Victory cap Tallie somewhere. Guz

Came across an article about the 2nd world war about the VICTORY(Ship) being used as a training ship for Navy personnel,was this training for Boy seamen such as Ganges young lads or for serving matelots taking specialist training. I believe she was damaged during the war years and lives were lost,I do know that VICTORY(RNB) was bombed and lives were lost there as well.

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