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Lithium Polymer Batteries safety World Naval Ships Forums Archive

Lithium Polymer Batteries safety

Posts 1 to 7

Hi gang sorry to appear to be alarmist but thought in the light of a recent personal experience would share my experience . In several of my models I use 11.1v 6200 mAh 35c discharge batteries mainly due to the size , charge turn around weight when compared to Sealed Lead Acid batteries . I use the a Turnigy Balancing charger for mine and have found it a brilliant battery charger for all the batteries I use including SLA, NiMH , and Lipo . A couple of weeks ago at the club site I was approached by a member about to move away who offered me some cheap batteries one of which was very very slightly deformed and when I mentioned it to him he said it was fine and had given good service When I got home I checked it and found that the cells were out of balance so set about rebalancing them and within a few hours it had finished and displayed a balanced charge across the three sets showing each cell to be 4.20 in each of the three cells showing a collective charge of 12.60 .....great I thought a bargain In the back of my mind I was still a little un believing of my good luck , but seeing the result of the balanced charge felt a little happier . I have previously shown the result of other modellers mishaps where they were not using polarised leads and whilst at the club last Sunday the club chairman offered me a copy of a booklet on the safe use /Handling / and charging of Lipo batteries Most of it I was aware of except the section on handling and detecting suspect batteries and the resultant damage they can cause ..........especially the bit about the violent discharge nature , the fact that they can't be put out by either H2O fire extinguishers, powder extinguishers , are any other readily available type , quoting incidences where handlers who were wearing metal charm bracelets, metal watch straps had received severe arc burns and other such problems . Okay the point of this thread is not to ban there use [ I for one will continue to use mine having now had the benefit of the information contained in this document] but more to recommend the reading of the document on a website mentioned on this leaflet and that is................ [url]www.gibbsguides.com[/url] so if you use them READ IT Credit for this information goes to BOB SMITH and is the only information booklet I have come across on this subject [B]LITHIUM POLYMER BATTERY SAFETY BOOKLET[/B]....and is the only booklet I am aware of that comprehensively covers all aspects of Lipo handling

Sound safety advice Ivor. The following advice has been published regarding their involvement in fire: If fire or explosion occurs when batteries are on charge, shut off power to charger. In case of fire where lithium polymer batteries are present, flood the area with water. If any batteries are burning, water may not extinguish them, but will cool the adjacent batteries and control the spread of fire. CO2, dry chemical, and foam extinguishers are preferred for small fires, but also may not extinguish burning lithium polymer batteries. Burning batteries will burn themselves out. Virtually all fires involving lithium polymer batteries can be controlled with water. When water is used, however, hydrogen gas may be evolved which can form an explosive mixture with air. LITH-X (powdered graphite) or copper powder fire extinguishers, sand, dry ground dolomite or soda ash may also be used. These materials act as smothering agents Jim

I bow to your superior knowledge Jim , but it would seem that the booklet offers differing advice on the use of water "Any lipo cell in any battery has the potential to ignite , the cell contains come metallic lithium cobalt which is flammable , and lithium cobalt oxide , which under certain conditions can release gaseous oxygen , If there is a source of ignition available, a cell fire can occur.The source of is ignitions usually a temperature increase in the cell , but the problem here is that one of the changes which release oxygen is a further increase in temperture until thermal runaway occurs , and once that point is reached, ignition and a cell fire can't be avoided. The fire is self sustaining since it is independent of atmospheric oxygen. It is probably more correct to call it a chemical Flare, since it is extremely fierce , pressurised, releases toxic chemicals and burns at a much higher temperature than a normal flame Once ignition has occurred , the fire cannot be extinguished , fire extinguishers are of little use , Water will only exacerbate the situation and the only way to minimise the effects of combustion is by containment .....preferably within a fireproof container ". Any lipo showing signs of instability should be placed in a safety sack which will minimise the effects of combustion locally should it ignite The ideal container is a metal box or trunk which should be waterproof but not airproof as in the worst scenario the combustion gases need to escape .....it it is drill a 2mm hole in it to relieve any pressure build up The booklet is 14 A4 pages and well worth the reading and is written for modellers so even I could understand it .....and even explains how to wire up lip's in series using Deans connectors ., should you so desire . All said and done a sadly lacking document gladly received explaining a subject heterto unexplained to the layman . The only time it refers to the use of water is to cool adjacent batteries once the terminals are prevented from shorting out

Not my knowledge Ivor. I was merely repeating the information provided in the safety data sheets from several of these battery manufacturers, in the hope that it will be useful to anyone using these batteries. Jim

Thanks Jim , for both replying and helping on this topic . I have also got lipo batteries in my handrill and medical kit used at home but only the model batteries are rechargeable [ apart from the drill which comes complete with an integral stand / charger . As stated earlier my alarm was raised by the unstable nature of the batteries if not handled correctly ........but supplied without the technical details they could cause a fire if not handled correctly . As said earlier they are a god send for modellers as they offer compact reliable power supply without the penalty of weight / size which are valuable when trying to recreate a model plane / or vehicle / ship where these qualities are at a premium. provided you adhere rigidly to the charge / discharge / cell balance they meet this need so do so by all means but be fully aware of the problems they can bring about if you fail to .

Thanks Ivor for bringing this issue to our attention mate. These LIPO batteries and their instability have even affected the airworthiness of Dreamliners. Sandy.

thanks Sandy , as a coincidence the document I refer to was published by The British Model Flying Association and is I feel compulsory reading [ all 14 pages] to anyone either using or considering using these batteries in any model . I have since found out that the battery I was sold might have been a fatality of an area model incident ......and the description noted by the author of the booklet is spot on in appearance in-spite of its excellent charge holding state . In spite of this its bound for the Tip as I would not wish to put my models or my workshop at serious risk of fire damage This was very fortuitous that our club chairman gave me this to look at as I was not privy to the risks of using a damaged battery of this type or even the knowledge that it was in fact damaged ......but in the short time it has been in my property the production of gases and the resultant distortion to the shrink pack has presented itself quite clearly .......so it is outside in a tin until I can get up to the local disposal centre

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