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Bodgitt and Bodgitt; new build HMS DAFFODIL (formerly War Dept Train Ferry No3). World Naval Ships Forums Archive


Bodgitt and Bodgitt; new build HMS DAFFODIL (formerly War Dept Train Ferry No3).


Posts 1 to 50


Greetings People, Robbie and I are due to commence the build of HMS DAFFODIL on Monday morning. [I]DAFFODIL[/I] started life as Train Ferry No3 in 1917. She was built by Fairfield Shipbuilding and Engineering Company in 1917 at Govan, Glasgow (Robbie's childhood stomping ground).:rolleyes: I first became interested in her almost five years ago when she appeared on the forum here: [URL]http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316&highlight=Mystery+ships-+ID+required&page=33[/URL] Post [URL="http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73975&d=1269511761"]#811[/URL] by Darleydave shows her in her final configuration. However (and now for something completely different) here is her sister ship Train Ferry No 2 in exactly the same configuration.
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[QUOTE=Destroyerman;10132914]Greetings People, Robbie and I are due to commence the build of HMS DAFFODIL on Monday morning. [/QUOTE] Can't wait Sandy!

During her lifetime she adopted three military configurations, the first as a two-funnelled Train Ferry belonging to the War Department 1917 - 1924. Between the World Wars she continued as a Train Ferry operated by Great Eastern Train Ferry Company Limited 1924 - 1934 and by London & North Eastern Railway Company Limited (LNER) 1934 - 1939, when she was then requisitioned by the Royal Navy for wartime service again. During the interim period her only real change was her livery under the railway company ownership. Once in "PUSSER's" hands she underwent her first refit and emerged as a LSS (Landing ship stern chute) under the name of HMS DAFFODIL. The "History Maritime" poster aptly shows her as: Top: LSS HMS DAFFODIL Centre: LNER Harwich - Zeegrugge train ferry. Bottom: HMS DAFFODIL in her final configuration as a Train ferry (Locomotive) with loco ramp deployed.
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Final post for tonight .......... When I belonged to Portsmouth Model Boat Display Team our "in-house" Merchantman hull mould was perfect for this build. Robbie has kindly made one available (ex Gary Smifffff pyro cargo boat) so we can commence work Monday.;) Meanwhile, I have made a scale drawing (plan view, stbd side view and rail deck elevation) as my particular choice of build; but it isn't quite the same as Robbie's. Perhaps the first obstacle ......... but whatever ....... the hull and rail deck remained the same for its lifetime, so maybe some compromises or even tears at bedtime to begin with.:D:rolleyes: Bodgitt and Bodgitt.

That would keep you busy for a week or two ;). What scale have you chosen? Interesting to see the division of labour. Best of luck with the project. Derek

Always good to see an excellent shipyard gain a new contract. Work hard, drink hard, and don't get yer missuses in too much of a snit over where and how (and with what) you do the work. ;)

[QUOTE=caledonia2006;10132926]That would keep you busy for a week or two ;). What scale have you chosen? Interesting to see the division of labour. Best of luck with the project. Derek[/QUOTE] Thanks Derek, we have chosen 1:72 scale as that ties-in pretty well with the HO/OO rolling stock at approx 1:75 scale.;) The plans that I've drawn are compatible with 1:72 scale as well. It'll "all out in the wash" as they say. Don't forget, this project is an all "Stoker" build, so anything can (and normally does) happen. Sandy (ex Chief Stoker) and Robbie (ex Killick Stoker).:D

[QUOTE=BlackBat242;10132941]Always good to see an excellent shipyard gain a new contract. Work hard, drink hard, and don't get yer missuses in too much of a snit over where and how (and with what) you do the work. ;)[/QUOTE] Many thanks Jon, we've already carered for the girls' needs and requirements. It's taken a few weeks to convince 'em that their recreation needs will be accommodated and that bits and pieces of their domestic inventory will "appear" not to disappear.:cool::D:o Bodgitt and Bodgitt.

So it's full ahead both and tie down the wotsit Sandy. :) Good luck to you and Robbie on this one and looking forward to the progress reports. Dave H

[QUOTE=Destroyerman;10132942]Thanks Derek, we have chosen 1:72 scale as that ties-in pretty well with the HO/OO rolling stock at approx 1:75 scale.;) The plans that I've drawn are compatible with 1:72 scale as well. It'll "all out in the wash" as they say. Don't forget, this project is an all "Stoker" build, so anything can (and normally does) happen. Sandy (ex Chief Stoker) and Robbie (ex Killick Stoker).:D[/QUOTE] Wow you should be able to pack in a lot of detail at that scale, I would never get that past the Boss. Derek

Well that's going to be entertaining!!!..........no sarcasm implied or intended........."Daffy" (NOT to be confused with LLANDAFF also sometimes called "Daffy") should be interesting. I look forward to accounts of the Chief Stoker wrestling with Steam Recips (presumably?) instead of Turbines......now as she was a train ferry.......scope for a good railway layout as well? Anyhow more than enough to keep the famous (or infamous?) B&B Dockyard in gainful employment for some time to come. I eagerly await reports. Power to your collective elbows, Robbie and Sandy.

[QUOTE=Dave Hutson;10132947]So it's full ahead both and tie down the wotsit Sandy. :) Good luck to you and Robbie on this one and looking forward to the progress reports. Dave H[/QUOTE] Thanks Dave my man.;)

[QUOTE=caledonia2006;10132952]Wow you should be able to pack in a lot of detail at that scale, I would never get that past the Boss. Derek[/QUOTE] Thanks Derek, we shall try our best. One of our most outrageous sources of materials is C-in-C Home's kitchen, where all manner of utensils are utilised. But don't let her know, careless talk costs lives.:D;) Lou Boyle.

[QUOTE=Scurs;10132955]Well that's going to be entertaining!!!..........no sarcasm implied or intended........."Daffy" (NOT to be confused with LLANDAFF also sometimes called "Daffy") should be interesting. I look forward to accounts of the Chief Stoker wrestling with Steam Recips (presumably?) instead of Turbines......now as she was a train ferry.......scope for a good railway layout as well? Anyhow more than enough to keep the famous (or infamous?) B&B Dockyard in gainful employment for some time to come. I eagerly await reports. Power to your collective elbows, Robbie and Sandy.[/QUOTE] Gee thanks Scurs my old mucker. Steam recips ...... correct. Railway layout ...... correct. It's going to be a challenge because there is scant information out there on these three Train Ferries, and what there is becomes pretty contradictory from time to time. Research needs to be diligent (that's red rag to Stokers) so ...... at the first sign of a word of more than four syllables ..... we're outta this jobbie.:eek::cool::D Shall keep you all posted guys. Rod Gearing.

Hope the project comes to fruition, and successful completion, and look forward to sitreps as you go. Not sure if you will have come across these sites for reference purposes [url]http://www.lner.info/ships/GER/ferry3.shtml[/url] [url]http://communities.zeelandnet.nl/hobo/pagina/70954[/url] Good luck Jim

Thanks for your good wishes Jim.;) Thanks also for taking the time to research both links for us. Unfortunately, over the years, I had looked-up these sites and gleaned useful information (all Dutch to me) as well as some well defined images. But thank you anyway. These sites will help viewers of this thread gain a better insight into the lives of these oft forgotten vessels. Kind regards, Sandy.

Tis good to see Messrs Bodgitt in business again. Shall pitch my deckchair in a suitable place and prepare to watch avidly :). Perchance has anyone warned the youngsters of your various families to keep an eye on their train sets' rolling stock and such like for unexpected absences :rolleyes: Missy

Looking forward to this build Sandy, she operated out of Port Richborough near Sandwich, not far from my home town of Ramsgate, during WW1. The following link show some outline plans, maybe of some use to you. [url]http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3052.msg124147#msg124147[/url] Jack.

Many thanks Sylvia and Jack. Sylvia, Robbie's rolling stock is in imminent danger as will be described later.:D:D Jack, thanks for the link, it has revealed an image of a train ferry previously unknown to me and gives an indication of her turning power. Many thanks indeed. Sprayer Jockey.:D

Day one; decision day. Two old stokers convened a construction pow-wow. Many smoke signals during discussion dampened by copious tee and coffee.;) A few hours head-scratching (normal procedure in the Stoker world).:D:) Meeting revolved around which era/configuration we were to depict the vessel. Points of interest were: 1. topweight of model. 2. ease of build and what materials we already had to hand. 3. vulnerable projections (eg. locomotive ramp) when sailing. 4. availability of accessories (eg. 27'whalers; 16' dinghys; LCM landing craft; rolling stock, including weight and cost of locomotives etc). 5. areas of operation and how they tied-in with history/modern times. 6. aesthetic appearance of finished model. The model that I had drawn plans for won the day unanimously (thankfully) and Train Ferry No3 was elected, primarily for her uniqueness, style, readily identifiable cargo, the availability of period rolling stock and vehicles, and finally by her first area of operation. It is to be noted that she sailed principally from the artificial military port of RICHBOROUGH (Pegwell Bay) across the channel to various French ports. It was here at RICHBOROUGH that she and her sister ferries will be forever remembered. So TRAIN FERRY No3 the build is to be. Sorry to disappoint any HMS DAFFODIL fans, but notes on the vessel as DAFFODIL will appear here from time to time. Meanwhile, an image of TRAIN FERRY No3 as built. Bodgitt and Bodgitt.
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Drawing (plan view; side elevation and well deck arrangement) of Train Ferry No3. Drawn using pen ..... ruler ...... and compasses, by an amateur (and a Chief Stoker to boot), from images obtained through 'tinternet.:rolleyes: As it turned out, this was the confuguration decided upon for the build. Luckily for the artist/draughtsman.:D Sandy.
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Waterlooville Dockyard cleared (well, almost) for action. Note HMS RODNEY protected by polythene sheeting prior to the dust flying.:D Sandy.
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Single or double Shaft Sandy ? If single I have a 4mm 7 inch going spare. Dave H

Twin screw ..... twin rudder Dave. VMT for the offer, but Robbie had two prop shafts for a Cruiser that he's building (does it ever stop) and at 12" they were too long. Ideal however for TF3 as the motors have to lie low in the bilges to keep the welldeck proportional and at functional level.;) But many thanks for your kind thoughts ...... us modellers are a "giving" bunch.:D Sandy and Robbie.

Quote, "Waterlooville Dockyard cleared (well, almost) for action.", unquote. Very impressive, more gear stowed there than in the average Buffer's Locker! (or should that be Chief Stoker's Caboosh"?). :D:D

Cheers Scurs ..... don't forget that the space serves as a Injunears werkshop, a design office, lay apart store, restroom (mainly) and also the paint shop too!!:D Task today (while Robbie's away); remove the existing decking on the donor hull as none of it complies with the new "fit". The ultimate DATUM is the train deck/well deck. The radio control gear has to be stuffed into a very shallow space below this deck. Battery has to be fairly slimline so we are considering 6V operation. (We can get away with this as the vessel's real max speed was 12 knots) so a smaller voltage and battery should give us two hours sailing. Critical though, is the ventilation for the two motors in such a cramped space. It may be possible to fit a PC chip fan in the compartment for local cooling. Shall cross that bridge when we come to it. I was quite jittery wielding a hammer and chisel to remove the decking, especially as it was held in by "Isopon". Fortunately the hull is of GRP and took the beating without splitting.:o This is testament to our very good friend Gary Smifff's boat building skills. Images below. Sandy.
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..................and the fence still needs painting! :D:D:D

[QUOTE=Scurs;10133169]..................and the fence still needs painting! :D:D:D[/QUOTE] Don't upset the Chief Poker , you may recall he got out of painting that fence cosit blew down last year and the newie one should be OK for this season :) Howzat Sandy , the ole Ch Tel goes to bat for the ole Ch Poker :D Dave H

Very astute of Scurs innit Dave.:rolleyes::D Thanks for the defence my man, I reckon that an upper-deck-painter (formerly G O W.) could at LEAST volunteer his professional services .......................... :D:D Sandy (victim of circumstance).:D

..........but Chief I only said.................:o Would be delighted to offer services, but unfortunately am "excused everything and anything" connected with seaman-like activities, being a galvanised writer! (hence blue card). ;)

Scary week this week ..........:eek: Cutting out the hull profile from the donor hull and found out just how perilously low the aft freeboard actually is.:o It's only (in real terms) about three feet, which makes it ideal for incoming goffers up the stern.:eek: On the real vessel there were a series of semi-auto rectangular scuppers to drain any unwanted water from the train deck, keeping the compartments underneath dry; but on the model, hatchways have to be incorporated into the train deck to give access to the motors; steering gear and electronics. These will have to be completely watertight to prevent the ingress of water..........:rolleyes: The shape of the donor hull at the stern has a shallower draft as it gets to the sternpost and this has affected the profile at the stern. In essence, the donor hull has a "Schooner" stern whereas the original vessel's stern more resembles a "Barge" stern. But, not to worry, we can effect a "Bodge-job". (preferably at the SOUTHSEA 'Yard and not the prestigious WATERLOOVILLE 'Yard).:D:D As can be seen from the images, the cutting-out of the hull is just about finished. We've left the paint job on the hull until fully profiled then we'll apply paint stripper and clean the hull back to surface and plating.The images of the stern show just how shallow the resultant freeboard is. The top of the blue masking tape around the inner side of the hull shows where the train deck settles, so the depth from there to the bilges dictates just how low the battery; steering gear; motors; speed controller and receiver must be. Ventilation must be considered in this small space too, otherwise the electronics will overheat. (Another "Bodge-job" presents itself).:D Robbie arrives tomorrow morning so we'll see what progress we make then. Meanwhile, thanks for looking-in on this build, we're sure it will become more interesting as it progresses. Sandy and Robbie.
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Good progress today, mainly due to Robbie limiting me to only four cups of coffee.;):D Managed to fill the stern lower level with P38 (the end which slides under the shore based rail link). Obviously, as per drawing in post #21, the actual rails start some 6 metres from the stern. Furthermore, Robbie was astute enough to realise that we needed P38; a usable rudder; prop shafts and tubes; motors and flexible couplings, so he brought them along this morning. To that end we were able to gauge where the propshafts entered the hull (usually a shop bought hull will have these marked) and were able to cut out the accesses to align both shafts and propellers. Previously the donor hull only had a single propeller. With limited headroom both motors will be siliconed to the bilge level. In order to support the protruding shafts I managed to sort out some metal "A" brackets that I had acquired for HMS RODNEY. All trial and error but we got there in the end.:rolleyes: So far we have spent £0.00p on the build by utilising the gear that we already have in come-in-handy-boxes etc. Last thing for today we started stripping the numerous coats of paint from the donor hull. More to follow, perhaps during the week. Thanks for looking-in.;) Sandy and Robbie.

Question for you learned followers: TRAIN FERRY No 3 was operated solely by the British Army during WWI. Therefore, to my mind, she would more than likely have flown the Blue Duster. In my non-existent experience of WWI Army Units, would she have flown (at sea) the Blue Duster of the Royal Army Logistical Corps; the Royal Army Service Corps or perhaps the Royal Army Transport Corps. (Or none of the above).:rolleyes: I know that differing Army units had personal designs included on the basic Blue Duster to signify which Regiment/Corps it belonged to during WWI and, for the sake of accuracy, would appreciate assistance in this quest. Kind regards, Sandy.

Sandy, the following link shows Train Ferry No2 sporting an ensign, unfortunately it's in black n' white, also shows a camo pattern, may be of interest to you! [url]http://www.lner.info/ships/GER/ferry2.shtml[/url] Jack.

Jack, very many thanks for your response.;);) As you say, the top image shows an ensign of some sort (most probably blue) and it includes slightly more than the plain Blue Ensign. I've been trawling the 'net and discovered that the inclusion of an "emblem" is called "defacement". I've also located this website: [url]http://imperialflags.blogspot.co.uk/2008/04/royal-logistics-corps-ensign.html[/url] which, curiously, raises more questions than it answers. The relevant regimental ensigns appear two-thirds of the way down the homepage. Perhaps on reflection, I'm being too much of an "anorak" and searching blindly for perfection.:rolleyes: I'm also informed that there may be a scale model of one of the train ferries in Ramsgate museum. Are you aware of opening season and opening times of this local museum? If so, Robbie and I may arrange a trip to Ramsgate to investigate. We would appreciate your enquiries. Meantime, thanks once again for your link, it really confirms the camouflage pattern on the port side of TF No2, I've seen what I believe to be a reverse negative of same vessel showing that scheme as the starboard side.:rolleyes::D Sandy.

Sandy, I will enquire at the museum with regards model and opening season, and report back. Having scanned the Imperial Flags site I am none the wiser as to what is the correct defacement :confused: Jack.

Sandy, the museum will open on Good Friday for the season, so I will toddle down over Easter weekend and make enquiries, getting back to you in due course. Jack.

Very many thanks in anticipation Jack. Meanwhile we're struggling ever so slightly with the rudder (singular:o) positioning. The rudder head and arm have to be below the level of the train deck which is presenting a challenge. The propeller shafts; tubes; propellers; "A" brackets (did I call 'em "A" frames in an earlier post?:o) and motors are now ready to fit. "A" [U]frames[/U] to an old stoker means a gynagerous great diesel propulsion engine.:rolleyes: We'll be hovering around the rum fanny on Monday noon, so half a tot from each of us to you and ALL of the "Queens" for you too.:D;) Sandy and Robbie.

Sandy & Robbie, email sent with the pics of Train Ferry at Port Richborough as photographed on Friday at the Ramsgate Maritime Museum, hope they may be of some use to you both, especially if you can 'photoshop' them in some way. Glass display cases play havoc with the flash in use!!. For those following this build, I have attached said photos after being 'photosmart' adapted, but I will apologise for the quality in advance. The display was of a waterline model set up. Jack.
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Great stuff Jack.;) Thank you very much indeed for taking the time and trouble on our behalf. Pictures indeed paint a thousand words and we will be in your debt forever kind Sir. Work progresses on the build and we've overcome the height limitations regarding the motors, steering, electronics and battery siting. Once the domestic demands on our Easter break have been discharged, we will press on and post progress reports. Sandy.

Great to see you back in harness Sandy ....well done

Very many thanks Ivor. Great to hear from you too.;) We're at the interim stages at present and once the Easter Holiday tasks have been discharged to C-inC Home's satisfaction, then we can proceed apace. One thing that we've learned through this build is that WWI tanks were "male" and "female". I've researched the meaning for this and wonder if any of you were aware of the facts?? Robbie and myself are confident building the "male" version to fit on low-loader bogeys, but we're not proficient enough to build the "female" version.:o:o:o More soon. Sandy and Robbie.

As I recall........and this is from memory, not Wikipedia or it's kin........"male" tanks were armed with 6pdr guns, whereas "female" just had machine guns as armament. :confused: The one that overlooked Whale Island Parade Ground for many a year (now at Bovington museum I think) was "male".

tank is female as male tank has gun barrels out of both sides the tank has to be covered for transporting as they were the first. Tanks to be used

Thanks for that Scurs and robbievic.:D Quite correct gents, that is indeed the difference. It's amazing what one learns from a model build. Scurs ..... if I may be so bold ....wot where the tappet clearances in the valve gear on these tank engines mate??? Clue: Reliant Robin; Reliant Regal ....etc etc .....;) Robbie, good to see you posting on this thread mate ....... I cannot get away with any terminalogicalinexactitudes then .........:o:o:o Damn, I hate censorship!!:D Sandy.

Sandy me ol' stoker oppo...........WHAT? calling the Chief Stoker "Oppo", be calling the Skipper "wings" next! :D:D..............being an "Upper Deck Technician, Cable & Wire Manipulator, seconded to being a "galvanised Scribes" and a Gunnery FC2 as well, I was STRICTLY a "User", not a "Maintainer"! :):) Thus, as you recall, when old age set in, and I changed from being a roughy, toughy, Biker...........and drove various Reliant 3 wheelers.......that is ALL that I did.........drove the things...........tappet clearances I left to my "tame mechanic".......sooooooooooo...........cannot help you! :(

Sandy have done six molds of femal tank will bring up Monday as need too see how they are coverd robbie:eek:

Bless you Scurs.;) Good work Robbie; you haven't been hanging about then, have you? Not much done this end mate, call of domestic duty let's say.:o Sandy.

[QUOTE=robbievic;10134333]tank is female as male tank has gun barrels out of both sides the tank has to be covered for transporting as they were the first. Tanks to be used[/QUOTE] In today's way of doing things you would need to have tanks with 'big guns' on one side and machine guns on the other!! Jim

Androgynous tanks; the mind fair boggles! :eek: Missy




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