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27'-00" Whaler World Naval Ships Forums Archive

27'-00" Whaler

Posts 1 to 38

Hi All, I have a thought about building a scale model of a 27' whaler, maybe 3/8 to the foot. Does anybody know where I can obtain some detailed plans for a whaler ? I bought a set from Brown and Sons but they are a bit light on for scantlings etc. and even good photos seem to be scarce. Thanks, Western Isles

[QUOTE=western isles;10125596]Hi All, I have a thought about building a scale model of a 27' whaler, maybe 3/8 to the foot. Does anybody know where I can obtain some detailed plans for a whaler ? I bought a set from Brown and Sons but they are a bit light on for scantlings etc. and even good photos seem to be scarce. Thanks, Western Isles[/QUOTE] Can't help you directly, but these links may give further info.. Some images here for the 27' Montague whaler:- [url]https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=27+foot+montague+whaler&biw=1024&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HOY0VPuVNeSC7ga94YH4Aw&ved=0CDkQsAQ[/url] This is a restoration of a whaler by the British Military Powerboat Team. It might be worth contacting them to see if they can help with plans. :- [url]http://www.bmpt.org.uk/pnbpt_historic_boats/Montague-Whalers/index.htm[/url] Good luck in your search, Alan.

Belfast has a pretty rough whaler on the boat deck, next time i go i will take some pictures for you; what specifically do you need close ups of? tim

Hi, I have just finished making two at 1:72 scale. Photos attached. Regards
Attachments :

John Lambert plans ref. L/S/27 includes whaler drawings, is that the one you already bought?

if its helpful here are a few photos of my father and his friends sailing their ship's whaler for pleasure, not much else to do, at Scapa Flow in 1942. tim
Attachments :

Hi Tim, Thanks for your offer. A couple of internal shots would be good, sternsheets, thwarts etc. Regards, Roger

Thanks for your interest. The plans I bought were by Harold Underhill and no dimensions given anywhere. Might have to "dummy up" my own. Cheers

[QUOTE=tim lewin;10125696]if its helpful here are a few photos of my father and his friends sailing their ship's whaler for pleasure, not much else to do, at Scapa Flow in 1942. tim[/QUOTE] Nice one Tim ...... the imaged has reminded me of the tiller "yoke", fitted around the mizzen mast step. Happy days, Sandy.

[QUOTE=rickles23;10125642]Hi, I have just finished making two at 1:72 scale. Photos attached. Regards[/QUOTE] rickles23, thanks for the images. Photo#1 shows a pulling/sailing CUTTER. Photo#2 shows a Bermudan rigged 3-in-one whaler. The descriptor "3-in-one" broadly means the methods by which the whaler can be propelled through the water. 1 ...... by using the five oars, 2 ...... by rigging the vessel for sail, and 3 ..... by using the boats Enfield HO2 engine (principly as either (1) a seaboat or (2) a ships liberty boat. Photo #3 is a great piece of modelling skill reproducing the standard 27' whaler in 1:72 scale. Fantastic job.;) Re the originator's initial question: I'm sure that there's a complete and fully rigged Montague whaler in No 4 boat shed in Portsmouth Dockyard. I've seen it many times when doing model boat displays there. I could pop down there and see if I can get copies of any plans if you like. Hope this helps. Sandy.

Well done Sandy, and glad you like the period pics, its alsway nice to relook at them. if/when time allows i will rescan all of these old snaps as scanner resolution is now 300% better than that of the one i used when i did these. I am happy to take pics of the inside of Belfast's whaler next time i am there but they do have a cover over it now so i might not be able to do this without pre-arrangement with the onboard team, your suggestion of the fully restored on in No. 4 boat shed sounds much better, Belfast's is pretty moth-eaten and needing restoration. tim

Re: Several past posts on this Thread 1. The left-hand picture in Rickles23's post of 8 Oct is actually of a 30ft Gig and not a 32ft Cutter. 2. Re the 27ft Whaler, the term "Montague" refers to the sailing rig and not the boat itself. The fact that it could be pulled and sailed had no bearing on the boat's description. 3. I endorse "Destroyerman's" post of 2257 14 Oct: the sailing rig of the 27ft Motor Whaler was "Bermuda," as was that of the 32ft Cutter in the later stages of its life. 4. There is indeed (or was a couple of years ago), a 27ft Whaler in No 4 Boat Shed in Portsmouth Historic Dockyard but I cannot recall if it is actually rigged for sailing. 5. Notwithstanding there being commercial plans of the boat available from Lambert and Underhill, the late Norman Ough also produced drawings of the 27ft Whaler, as well as several other service boat types. I do not know, however, who now sells those. 6. Volume 1 of the various later Editions of the Seamanship Manual contain some fine drawings of the internal arrangements of the boat. "Brail Up!" GK

As a teenager i sailed in a gig borrowed from the CinC Plymouth, it was rigged for convenience with 2 sets on RNSA 14 sails, it was very fast, better than a flying 15 which we overhauled hands down. I wonder if it still exists? it was in perfect condition, painted mid-green outside, white inside. I beleive there is/was a protocol to the colour of boats. tim

Quite so Tim ...... The CinC's barges and boats were painted Green .... hence the nickname "Green Parrot" Dave H

i wonder if these venerable old craft still exist? there must have been 1,000 of 28' cutters, 3in1s, RNSA 14s, skimmers and whalers in existence, where did they all go? like Ford cortinas, one day they are everywhere, a week later, not a one!

deviating a bit from the much loved, or not if you were seaboat crew, my late dad was a great enthusiast for the Gemini/Zodiac. So much so that when they were issued one to Urchin (it lived on the quarterdeck where if you let some of the air out it made an excellent sunbed) and was easy to launch, it had a Johnson 40HP outboard motor so went like the clappers, at least compared with the cutter or other craft. He used it to nip between ships whenever possible, so much so that his boat crew, 3, made him up a special chair to travel in "dignity" and a pennant so one of them could lie prone in the bow holding it aloft on a short stick. When his time with F17 was up, they put his beloved Zodiac on a gun carriage and all the officers towed him through the Dockyard to where his car was waiting at the gate.
Attachments :

[QUOTE=Grosser Kreuzer;10126199] "Brail Up!" GK[/QUOTE] Why don't you??:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=western isles;10125596]Hi All, I have a thought about building a scale model of a 27' whaler, maybe 3/8 to the foot. Does anybody know where I can obtain some detailed plans for a whaler ? I bought a set from Brown and Sons but they are a bit light on for scantlings etc. and even good photos seem to be scarce. Thanks, Western Isles[/QUOTE] Further to my last, this morning I have been in touch with a member of the BMPT group in Portsmouth (who restored the 27' MONTAGUE RIGGED whaler; which has currently and temporarily been moved from No4 Boat shed to their premises) and he will be looking for any plans from which they worked. Should these emerge, then I will get them re-scaled and send them off to you. I promise to keep you informed of progress. Please see my PM to you. Sandy.

Sandy, Re: Your post of 151956OCT. Thank you for accepting my correction so graciously:cool: Re: Your post of 151913OCT. My sails are always ready to be released on this site when I see something that I know to be technically incorrect or when I see something that I believe that I can help someone with. I much prefer doing so for the latter but sometimes also find it necessary to do so for the former (Sorry but I can't find an appropriate "Smiley" for this last note, Sandy!). Tim, I recall seeing a gig laid up in a repair yard in Gosport, which I believe was the old Shipwright's Shop of HMS ST VINCENT, some years ago. It may still be there. Meanwhile, there is a 32ft Cutter among the collection of the RNM in Portsmouth and the museum at Lyness, Orkney, also has a 27ft service pulling whaler that I believe was obtained from the local Sea Cadet unit. Concerning the colours of boat hulls: CsinC barge hulls were painted emerald green (Nelson's favourite colour, I believe), those of "lesser" admirals were painted dark blue but sometimes this was just confined to a strake running fore and aft, while the rest of the hull was painted grey. GK

Gentlemen, I am obliged to correct two facts that I previously placed on this thread. a. The sailing rig of the 32ft Cutter in the later stages of its service use was actually "Sloop" or "Lug Sloop." It was once fitted with the delightfully named "De Horsey" rig. b. That of the 27ft Motor Whaler was "Gunter." Of idle and passing interest, the 30ft Gig was "Dipping Lug" rigged Thank you. GK

[QUOTE=western isles;10125596]Hi All, I have a thought about building a scale model of a 27' whaler, maybe 3/8 to the foot. Does anybody know where I can obtain some detailed plans for a whaler ? I bought a set from Brown and Sons but they are a bit light on for scantlings etc. and even good photos seem to be scarce. Thanks, Western Isles[/QUOTE] western isles, There is another thread on WNSF with details of anecdotes regarding what was commonly known throughout the FLEET as the Montagu Whaler. See it here: [url]http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262[/url] Having sailed the beast in both of its guises for 25 years in many countries throughout the world, I referred to it, as did the other contributers to the thread as the Montagu whaler. I had a brief conversation with my contact at BMPT yesterday and he assures me that plans ARE available on line, even as far away as New Zealand.;) More later. Sandy.

I spoke again to my contact at BMPT this morning and he suggests that the trust does indeed have plans for the 27' whaler in question. However, their archivist is currently unwell and will be on the binnacle list for a further three weeks. More news as I get it. Sandy.

Surfin' the net, try this link: [url]http://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog/Ship_s_Boats.html#aL_2fS_2f27[/url] Top of thepage. I don't know if you've already got it. Sandy.

Four half-decent images here: [url]http://intheboatshed.net/2007/01/29/447/[/url] Sandy.

Another ...... John Lambert plans for 27' Montagu whaler: [url]http://www.feralchicken.co.uk/lambert-plans/lsdateien/LS_027.htm[/url] Don't be put-off by the web address.:rolleyes: Sandy.

Or ............................. perhaps here? [url]http://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog/Harold-Underhill-Ship-s-Boat-Plans.html[/url] Sandy.

How about searching through this website??? [url]http://www.transylvanian.com/27-whaler-royal-navy-plans-2/index.html[/url] Sandy.

How about this as an aside?? Written by Bernie Bruen (Later commander RN) Well your lacings are frayed And your sheets disarrayed And your travellers jammed at the yard You've lost crinkle and bone And your planking is thrown And the grease in your pintle's gone hard Well your garbut strake's split And your stretchers don't fit And your paintwork's beginning to peel Your gunnels have slipped And your tiller's unshipped And the deadwood's adrift from your keel They once sailed you proud Sang your praises out loud The pride of the fleet that you served No more will they shout As they bring you about Is this the reward you deserve? For your legend's been told By the sailors of old Of the lives that you saved from the sea You're the last galley 'ots You've been left here to rot Now who's going to save you for me? When you shake out your reef Take the wind by its teeth And you sail into history and song Though they've thrown you away Please recall what I say Forgive us for being so wrong So away with your kelson And away with your yard And away with your mizzen and main For the days of the Montague Whaler Are the days we shall not see again Strange that seasoned whaler sailors refer to it as the "MONTAGU WHALER". Sandy.

this picture is on ebay at the moment is it useful?
Attachments :

[QUOTE=western isles;10125596]Hi All, I have a thought about building a scale model of a 27' whaler, maybe 3/8 to the foot. Does anybody know where I can obtain some detailed plans for a whaler ? I bought a set from Brown and Sons but they are a bit light on for scantlings etc. and even good photos seem to be scarce. Thanks, Western Isles[/QUOTE] Western isles, I'm delighted to inform you that I've traced and located plans for the aforementioned 27' Royal Naval 'Montague' whaler. The source is in Canada and I've mentioned your WNSF request to him. If you are happy to go ahead with purchasing the plans, I shall send you the source's e-mail address so that you can deal direct. Meanwhile, please look in your Private Mail inbox, I shall send you brief details. Kind regards, Sandy.

[QUOTE=Destroyerman;10126895]How about this as an aside?? Written by Bernie Bruen (Later commander RN) Well your lacings are frayed And your sheets disarrayed And your travellers jammed at the yard You've lost crinkle and bone And your planking is thrown And the grease in your pintle's gone hard Well your garbut strake's split And your stretchers don't fit And your paintwork's beginning to peel Your gunnels have slipped And your tiller's unshipped And the deadwood's adrift from your keel They once sailed you proud Sang your praises out loud The pride of the fleet that you served No more will they shout As they bring you about Is this the reward you deserve? For your legend's been told By the sailors of old Of the lives that you saved from the sea You're the last galley 'ots You've been left here to rot Now who's going to save you for me? When you shake out your reef Take the wind by its teeth And you sail into history and song Though they've thrown you away Please recall what I say Forgive us for being so wrong So away with your kelson And away with your yard And away with your mizzen and main For the days of the Montague Whaler Are the days we shall not see again Strange that seasoned whaler sailors refer to it as the "MONTAGU WHALER". Sandy.[/QUOTE] Beautiful Sandy .....makes you weep for the verse ....thanks for posting that

I originally made this post about a week ago but due to problems on the Forum it was lost , but have you a copy of volume two of the manual of seamanship [ bought mine second hand on Amazon ] if so look at the Section in chapterVII on Boat Handling and you will find some detailed drawings in there which may be of use .

we seem to have "lost" the 4 photos of whalers i posted a few days ago?? or did they get filed somewhere else? if they fell victim to the gremlins i can easily post again tim

Yes Tim Its fair to say that was the case as all posts on or after the 22nd of November were lost to the either

G'Day All, Many thanks for all your suggestions and offers of help. I have now got the John Lambert plans as well as the Harold Underhill plans and the Manual of Seamanship drawings. Construction has started, I am up to the moulds at the moment since it will be a planked and framed model. Cheers all, Western Isles

Right well we know where to come for advice on Whalers then don't we :roll eyes: well done and keep us posted on progress please ;)

whalers in action, of one sort or another, posted the other day but fell victim to the gremlins so here they are again. tim
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Hi All, Attached is a lines plan of a 27ft Whaler which I made from a drawing I found on the net. I needed a whaler as they were ships boats in Swan, Duchess and Castlemaine. The Zip is of a DXF which is at full size so you can scale to whatever. I hope its useful for your model. Best Regards Bob
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