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RN Rhine Flotilla: Ex-German Vessels World Naval Ships Forums Archive


RN Rhine Flotilla: Ex-German Vessels


Posts 1 to 37


Some help please, guys & gals. I have some photos in my collection of vessels that were part of the RN Rhine Flotilla from 1945 until 1957-8 when the duties were handed over to the W.German Government. These vessels were all commissioned into the RN and carried P pendant numbers. I've looked in various editions of Janes but all they say are that they were ex-Luftwaffe Air-Sea Rescue launches, and I can find nothing about them on the net. If you google "Rhine Flotilla" it comes up with some info, but only about Shore bases (and mostly USN details) and the threads on this Forum are about the same (HMS Royal Prince etc) or about 2 S-boats used for clandestine ops in the Baltic. They were classed as ML's and the ships I have pics of were P6011, P6012 (1953), P6013 (June 53) and P6034 (June 53). I believe they were based at Rhinehaven. What I want to know is what were they called before being taken over by the RN (either a name or number) so that I can try to get further details about them (Year of launch etc). If anyone is able to give me any info about these vessels, or point me in the right direction, I'd be grateful Steve

[QUOTE=hood51;10049112]Some help please, guys & gals. [B][I]I have some photos in my collection[/I][/B] of vessels that were part of the RN Rhine Flotilla from 1945 until 1957-8 when the duties were handed over to the W.German Government. These vessels were all commissioned into the RN and carried P pendant numbers. I've looked in various editions of Janes but all they say are that they were ex-Luftwaffe Air-Sea Rescue launches, and I can find nothing about them on the net. If you google "Rhine Flotilla" it comes up with some info, but only about Shore bases (and mostly USN details) and the threads on this Forum are about the same (HMS Royal Prince etc) or about 2 S-boats used for clandestine ops in the Baltic. They were classed as ML's and the ships I have pics of were P6011, P6012 (1953), P6013 (June 53) and P6034 (June 53). I believe they were based at Rhinehaven. What I want to know is what were they called before being taken over by the RN (either a name or number) so that I can try to get further details about them (Year of launch etc). If anyone is able to give me any info about these vessels, or point me in the right direction, I'd be grateful Steve[/QUOTE] Steve: Can you post some of the pictures of these vessels ... or have you already done so on another thread?

Hi Tim, Here are the pics: 1 - P6011 2 - P6012 - Photo 1953 3 - P6013 - Photo June 53 4 - P6034 - Photo June 53 Any help greatly appreciated Steve
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[QUOTE=hood51;10049140]Hi Tim, Here are the pics: 1 - P6011 2 - P6012 - Photo 1953 3 - P6013 - Photo June 53 4 - P6034 - Photo June 53 Any help greatly appreciated Steve[/QUOTE] Thanks Steve - great shots! Will have to put on my thinking cap .... for some reason they look very familiar, but I can't put my finger on why. Will keep trying!

According to British Warships & Auxiliaries 1952, ML6009-6014 were ex-German air/sea rescue launches based at HMS Royal Prince at Krefeld. P6034 isn't mentioned but looks the same class as the others posted.

According to the info I have found these vessels were ex German 'Raumboots'. I can find nothing on P6034 but they seem to have been named after birds whilst in RN service... P6009 HMML "ALBATROS" P6010 HMML "SWIFT" P6011 HMML "KITTYHAWK" P6012 HMML "ALBACORE" P6013 HMML "SWALLOW" P6014 HMML "KESTREL" Found this on the net... [I]'Raumen is the German verb 'to clear or 'to remove', hence the Raumboot or R-boat type of coastal minesweeper. These craft were of such a useful size, however, that they also did duty as minelayers and, suitably rearmed, as escorts to convoys, in which guise they were involved in frequent brushes with British craft'.[/I] Not much I'm afraid but I hope it helps. Regards...John

Thanks to everyone for their input. I will have to go on looking to see if I can get to the bottom of their former identities. I have seen a list of vessels which started the W.German Navy and although it gives their former german designation, it does not say which ones were handed over from the RN and which from the USN. Steve

Not quite within the OP, but relevant to the title, may I be allowed a mention of the windfall yachts, of which Overlord (tactful re-naming), ex Pelikan of the Luftwaffe is one example pictured below. I sailed her many years ago, lovely yacht
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[QUOTE=Rupert;10049754]Not quite within the OP, but relevant to the title, may I be allowed a mention of the windfall yachts, of which Overlord (tactful re-naming), ex Pelikan of the Luftwaffe is one example pictured below. I sailed her many years ago, lovely yacht[/QUOTE] USCGC [B][I]Eagle[/I][/B] is also an ex-German navy vessel (ex [B][I]Horst Wessel[/I][/B])

Steve: Doing a little digging and I find that R115 became the British ML 6115 [close but no cigar] and that MLs 6009-6028, 6031-6036, 6038-6042, 6048-6051 & 6115 were ex-German vessels used by the RN 1949-1958. I also infer the the 'Rhine Flotilla' or 'Flotillas' were multi-national and that the US had a large presence. Looking at lists of [I]R-bootes[/I], it looks like the US got a number of the survivors [with the Russians probably getting the most] and leased a number back to the German Govt, gifting them number back 'in fee' in 1952 on the occasion of Adenauer's visit to the US. I'll keep scratching around. Bill

[QUOTE=Scatari;10049765]USCGC [B][I]Eagle[/I][/B] is also an ex-German navy vessel (ex [B][I]Horst Wessel[/I][/B])[/QUOTE] As was the Portuguese Santo Andre [captured after WWI and now gone], the Portuguese Sagres and the Russian Tovarisch. The latter two were semi-sisters of Eagle. Bill

[QUOTE=WGVSr;10049766]Steve: Doing a little digging and I find that R115 became the British ML 6115 [close but no cigar] and that MLs 6009-6028, 6031-6036, 6038-6042, 6048-6051 & 6115 were ex-German vessels used by the RN 1949-1958. I also infer the the 'Rhine Flotilla' or 'Flotillas' were multi-national and that the US had a large presence. Looking at lists of [I]R-bootes[/I], it looks like the US got a number of the survivors [with the Russians probably getting the most] and leased a number back to the German Govt, gifting them number back 'in fee' in 1952 on the occasion of Adenauer's visit to the US. I'll keep scratching around. Bill[/QUOTE] Thanks Bill. The Rhine Flotillas were operated separately by the RN & US along those parts of the river that fell within their Zone of Occupation and after W.Germany was admitted to NATO in 1956, the duties and vessels (all ex-Kriegsmarine) were handed over to the Bundesmarine (Federal Navy) in 1956 & 1957, when the W.Germans took over responsibility for policing their own river. Some Kriegsmarine vessels were handed over to Russia and France at the end of the war, but the French ones were handed back at about the same time as the US & RN ones - the Russians kept theirs - surprise, surprise!!. Steve

Picture taken in Paris at Nautical Exhibition 1954.I was Stoker P.O.on 6011 Cheers Stan
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By the way The Royal Marine S.B.S. were most of the crews then.A great bunch of lads as well.....with only the Engine rooms with Stokers... We had a couple of folboats on board and enjoyed trips in them when in Amsterdam. Cheers,Stan:)

I was posted to Royal Prince in 57 and was one of the last to leave the senior officer after Captain Cartwright RN left was lt Col G Blake RM made up from major for the time before we shutdown the clearing party of about 10 marines and a few civilian staff the launches in the photos were not at the base when I was there the launches we had were all named after roses ie red rose white rose etc I understood the boats were ex torpedo recovery boats we had about 9 launches 9 LCMs 2 LCTs 1 ex german accomodation boat the engine had been removed so we towed it on our annual cruise most interesting boat was Gorings yacht seized by Monty at the end of the war all german crew apart from rm radio operator this was used by the royals for trips on the river the story went that prince charles had to peel the spuds for dinner The base was very luxurious with a theater huge bar which had balcony we had travel tickets once a month if 3 of us clubed togeter you could have a opal car and german driver for the day any questions I will try to answer but it wasa long time ago

From what I have read in the web, one of the ships of the Rhine Squadron was HMS ROYAL ALBERT. Judging from the following image of the ship (from the IWM site) she looks to be larger than the P-crafts that Steve has posted. Any ideas of her previous German identity? [ATTACH]144179[/ATTACH]
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[quote=Dido;10115054]From what I have read in the web, one of the ships of the Rhine Squadron was HMS ROYAL ALBERT. Judging from the following image of the ship (from the IWM site) she looks to be larger than the P-crafts that Steve has posted. Any ideas of her previous German identity?[/quote] As far as I can recall there were two ex German boats in the Rhine Squadron called Royal Albert [as well as the shore establishment] In 1945 it was the former launch Warnow and from 1946-1952 it was P6030....

The ROYAL ALBERT that I am interested in, was around 43 m long and 6.6 m wide and was build in Rendsburg in 1939. Do you know if those dimensions fit to one of the two options? Apparently at one point she was sold to a Belgian firm for civilian use without a name change. She was sold again in 1959 to Greek owners and converted into a passenger ship named MAHI. Here is a photo of her: [ATTACH]144213[/ATTACH]
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[QUOTE=Dido;10115129]The ROYAL ALBERT that I am interested in, was around 43 m long and 6.6 m wide and was build in Rendsburg in 1939. Do you know if those dimensions fit to one of the two options? Apparently at one point she was sold to a Belgian firm for civilian use without a name change. She was sold again in 1959 to Greek owners and converted into a passenger ship named MAHI. Here is a photo of her: [ATTACH]144213[/ATTACH][/QUOTE] Could this possibly be the one you want?. It is of ROYAL ALBERT taken in Cuxhaven in 1952 as part of the Rhine Flotilla. She was launched in 1938. Photo from MPL Steve
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That's the one Steve. But I haven't manage to find her original German name yet.

Another image of Royal Albert
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Thanks Andy. I found a page at [url]http://www.zollgrenzschutz.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=215&Itemid=251[/url] which mentions that ROYAL ALBERT was build in 1939 at Nobiskrug as the zollkreuzer "Freiherr vom Stein". Dimensions were: 42.85 x 6.63 m which corresponds to the dimensions of MAHI. Freiherr vom Stein was renamed UJ.172 during the war and was taken over by the RN in 1945 as ROYAL HARALD. The next year she was renamed EILEEN and later ROYAL ALBERT.

Hi All! I believe that the air sea rescue boats in German WW2 service were known as Flugbetreisboote (FLB) the were operated by the Luftwaffe in similar way to RAF ASR launches . There was a site on the net Historiche- Marinearchive which had images of a variety of FLB. I'm not sure if it is still around. Cheers John O'C.

Flugbetriebsboote (careful with the spelling otherwise an internet search will not come up with anything). The ones pictured above are the 90ft 5xxx series, the ones of this type used by the RN Rhine Flotilla with 6000 pennant numbers were; (info P. Simons) 6009 6010 6011 6012 EX FL-B 5051 GEBR KROGER WARNEMUNDE 1944 6013 6014 6022 HONOUR EX FL-B 518 GEBR KROGER WARNEMUNDE 1943 6023 SNOWGOOSE 6024 6025 ROYAL CATHERINE 6026 6031 HANNA EX FL-B 517 GEBR KROGER WARNEMUNDE 1943 6033 HERMIONE EX FL-B 545 DE VRIES-LENTSCH AMSTERDAM 1941 6034 HELEN/HURRICANE EX FL-B 542 DE VRIES-LENTSCH AMSTERDAM 1940 6038 HILDEGARDE EX FL-B 527 KROGERWERFT STRALSUND 1942 6039 HOPE/HELGA EX FL-B 505 GEBR KROGER WARNEMUNDE 1941 6040 HALCYON/HEDWIG EX FL-B 553 ROLANDWERFT BREMEN 1942 Furthermore Groner states; HENRIETTE was EX FL-B 5052 HEATHER was EX FL-B 5053 HILDA was EX FL-B 5502 HILARY was EX FL-B 5503 HYACINTH was EX FL-B 5512 It had been theorised that these had been 6009, 6010, 6011, 6013 and 6014 but the Bird names mentioned above tends to contradict this. Another FL-B was arrested in Spain for smuggling some years later and was called Lyna, ex-Hiltrauder, which sounds like another name in the same series.

Several of these ex-Luftwaffe boats were also taken into RAF Service. (Source: [url]http://www.asrmcs-club.com/boatswebsite/egl.html[/url]) Ted
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[QUOTE=cdsc123;10116148]Flugbetriebsboote (careful with the spelling otherwise an internet search will not come up with anything).[/QUOTE] Hello, we are working on a database of Flugbetriebsboote here: [url]http://historisches-marinearchiv.de/projekte/luftwaffenfahrzeuge/luftwaffen_fahrzeuge_schiffe/beschreibung.php[/url] Greetings Darius

Hi Darius Nice work, the info I quoted in my previous post was from Phil Simons' book dealing with RN 6000 series boats, it is a limited issue publication but here are the contact details; [url]http://www.worldshipsociety.org/29822.html[/url] The boats which the RAF used are dealt with in Vol. 6 of the RAF Marine Craft Directory, same source as above. I suppose you already have this book; [url]http://www.seeflieger.de/buecher/buchbesprechung8/buch8.php[/url] Regards, Christian.

Hello Christian, thank you. Regards, Darius

Good morning, I am assisting a researcher to identify the location of the shorebase of the Royal Albert from 1945-56. The base was at Uerdingen/Krefeld, Germany. This link gives an indication and description of the base facilities but not where it was exactly. Could it have been on the docks? [url]http://www.godfreydykes.info/THE_ROYAL_NAVAL_RHINE_SQAUDRON_RNRS.htm[/url] Thanks for any info (PS.) I have just discovered, minutes later, my colleague has already made contact with one of your site members. Regards Alan

The Royal Albert was not based at Eurdingen..That was H.M.S,.Royal Prince.I think you will find that Royal Albert was further up country.was it Kiel? I cant remember.. I was at Royal Prince 1953/55. First on T.R.V.s then Stoker P,O. on ML 6011. It was a great time and we all enjoyed ourselves. I must admit that if I could have been there for another couple of years I would have signed on:) as it was I left the R.N. in August 53. Regreted it ever since..Should have gone on for a pension..Still we all make mistakes in life.....

Thanks Stan, I am mixing many names up! I am also working on the Kiel base as well. Can you clarify please. Was the shorebase at Uerdingen actually on the docks? Thanks Alan

Alan, Base was just along from Eurdingan, Actually in what was called Rhinehaven....To leave the base you crossed the movable bridge. You could then wander down towards the town and get a drink in the Cafe Alstatt I think it was properly called. However we all called it the 403 after the LCT which was anchored in the base. As you might gather The 403 was a bit of a dive...:):)

Good evening, can you help my friend here: [url]http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,22469.0.html[/url] [QUOTE]Betitel ist das Bild mit "K 6 / Mai 1953 - W'haven (1.Einfahrt) Darunter steht (andere Handschrift): "evtl. PRINCE CHARLES (Rheinflottille) ?" Nun war PRINCE CHARLES aber laut Christian Grams die Göring-Yacht CARIN II. Und die hatte einen ganz anderen Rumpf. Was könnte "K 6" für ein Boot gewesen sein? Viel Spaß beim Recherchieren und viele Grüße Thomas[/QUOTE] What does "K 6" mean? Darius
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Hello, for more Informations about FL.B Boats look at our Site: [url]http://www.luftwaffe-zur-see.de/Kdo.Schiff/Flugbetriebsboote.htm[/url] P-Numer be added later.

HMS Forester with HMS Stayner encountered six R Boats trying to lay mines on the NE Flank of the invasion force on 26 July 1944. The R Boats fled towards Cap d'Antifer and Forester set three on fire, which beached themselves. The remaining three came under the safe cover of a shore battery on the clifftop which engaged the two RN ships with very accurate fire, so they retired back to the patrol line. The R Boats may have been small but they had two 20 mm oerlikons and a 40 mm gun that gave a good account of themselves.

FL.B 518 in Le Havre Jun 1942 - HONOUR - P 6022 FL.B 517 in Husum - HANNA - P 6031 FL.B 545 in List 1950 - HERMIONE - HERMINE - P 6040
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Pleas have a look at [url]http://www.godfreydykes.info/THE_ROYAL_NAVAL_RHINE_SQUADRON_RNRS%20.html[/url] there You find complete and perfect informations to the Rhine Squadron and for the picture ROYAL ALBERT. Godfrey writes: This is a picture of HMS ROYAL ALBERT but as a German war vessel in WW2. Note above the text said that she had come from the RHINE Squadron. In fact she came from the ELBE Squadron. Note from the list above there are only TWO NAMES TO REMEMBER concerning our story of the RHINE SQUADRON. First off that of the ROYAL ALBERT when in Berlin as a stonewall frigate [not HMS Royal Albert - and it is not listed anywhere as such in Admiralty documents of that period including the finest reference manual of all, the NAVY LIST] which became a [B]HMS Royal Albert in 1950 as a vessel, but never at Krefeld as part of the Rhine Squadron. It was wrongly listed as a Rhine Squadron ship in the 1953 Fleet review list below. [/B]
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