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HMS Troubridge Type 15 Frigate World Naval Ships Forums Archive

HMS Troubridge Type 15 Frigate

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When Karen found out I was a Model boat builder of average ability we discussed building a model of her Dads [ Chalky White's ] best Ship joining her when she was completed at Portsmouth . so I tried to obtain plans of here with no luck but managed to get some detail of HMS Rapid which whilst being a version of a type 15 was nothing like HMS Troubridge :( I managed to get some photos of HMS Zest which was a nearer version but as I know to my cost..... no two ships were identical I obtained a 19/6 scale Hull from a good friend and a stack of plastic card to start my task but has taken me about 11 months to get this far but lack confirmation of items fitted to her and positions By way of example behind the funnel is a section of super structure with a radio shack on top and an air duct.. then the aft ariel mast ...... behind that is a second structure with a range finder on top ...... between the two is a form of shelter fitted between the two with what looks like large fishing floats... one either side....the port having red and white quarter markings and the starboard one with black quarter markings :confused: on the deck beneath this "Awning"are deck hatches one forward on the starboard side one and one aft in this section on the port side What was it and did HMS Troubridge have them please:confused::confused::confused::confused:
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Hmm need some help here please fellow modelers having painted the hull and balanced it out in the bath , as soon as I put the superstructure in place it justs rolls in both directions I remember Chalky commenting on its first visit to the bay of Biscay after being handed over , and it came very close to rolling over ...:eek:in heavy seas Any bright ideas other than fitting tubular floats on the bilge keels :confused:

Right my old mate. Ballasting is a trial and error job. I use lead shot in small bags or lead flashing if available. Trying to get it right takes time as you add the radio control, batteries and servos. Try not to get perfect balance and then find when you put it on the water it is all out of canter, that takes you back to the drawing board. Once underway you find very quickly any wallowing and can add or subtract ballast to correct. Have found on occasions that a lead weight on the center line a quarter of the length from the bow and the same from the stern works. It is not an exact science Ivor and that makes it part of the building experience. Hope this helps. Dave H

Thanks Dave , Have already done as you suggested with the hull without the superstructure and thought that with that totally level with a bubble box ...should have sorted out most of the issues ...but then to find that with the superstructure on and it rolls to both port and starboard at the slightest provocation ...i thought was very worrying I could put more lead in yes but I only have about 30mm freeboard before the water starts sloping in :eek: Regards Ivor

So that means back to the drawing board Ivor, you really can't start ballasting until you have everything in the boat that will be there when she is on the water. Everything you install effects the trim ,,,,,, hence the "Trial and Error" Keep at it mate. Dave H

Hi Ivor, You could try to increase the surface area of the underwater hull with polystyrene , you will loose scale appearance, but she should float higher, you could probably make it detatchable. They did it in real life by adding 'bulges' Jim

Ivor, it is absolutely critical on 1:96 scale WWII emergency class destroyer hulls to keep the top weight as light as possible. It is therefore even more critical when constructing the Type 15 conversion to be even more careful with topweight. Perhaps you may consider trying again at 1:72 scale? This scale produces a much more stable platform in its WWII pre-conversion guise and I have no problems with stability on both HMS TEAZER and HMS UNDAUNTED, even in the windiest of conditions. Maybe even consider rebuilding your conversion superstructure in much lighter materials (hollow out the funnel if necessary etc etc) and even reconsider the weight/strength ratio of the framework for the added superstructure. Are you incorporating a lot of extra electronics etc?? These will obviously affect stability at your chosen scale. There has been a debate elsewhere about the strength/weight ratio between plasticard and plywood, with plasticard being more dense and heavier. Consider also moving any ballast you have to the outer edges of the bilges instead of on the centreline, this apparently aids stability. Always remember that destroyer hulls were pencil slim to facilitate high speeds and manoevreability, all at the expense of stability. Bilge keels will enhance stability as well, but only when the vessel is moving through the water. I know that it is a great disappointment when these things manifest themselves at this stage of the build, but they are not insurmountable. Good luck with your remedial actions and always remember what Karen advocates: "There's nothing a British boy cannot do". Sandy.

There you have it from an expert Ivor. If I remember rightly you started with a Destroyer hull and the rest is scratchbuild - or am I thinking of another project. If I am right it really is trial and error and as Sandy says using the lightest materials everything above the hull. But, hey you are the builder, all we other modellers can do is make suggestions and offer advice. You will get there - it's either that or the skip and I don't see you giving up mate. Dave H

I think my mistake is trying to produce an accurate scale model as a working boat rather than a working model boat :o I have tried so hard to do this and used all plastic micro rod for both the ariel masts and I still have a shed load of detail to fit to the decks so as you can imagine I am very dissapointed in not even getting close to balancing it out and making it stable :( Sulking now.........

Ivor, don't despair mate, there are always alternatives. One possibility is a good sized diorama utilising what you have there as a waterline model. I understand that you would be loathe to consider this prior to any other options, given the monies you have spent so far on it, but it avoids scrapping the project altogether. Were you building TROUBRIDGE as a present for anybody? If so, would the recipient be happy with a very detailed waterline model? In this case there is no limit on what intricate detail you choose to put on the model, furthermore it can become a work of art. Merely a suggestion mate, but please don't give up on your project. Once again I wish you every success on whatever path you take to solve this quandry. Kindest regards, Sandy.

Ivor, just as a postscript to my last, I only have 28mm freeboard on my Deans 1:96 scale HMS CAVALIER. You can put a fair bit of ballast into the hull which will only drop the waterline by 2 or 3 millimeters. The top of my boot-topping comes up to the top of the second row of plating. Your actual waterline should be around 2mm below this. See if you can achieve that. Regards, Sandy.

Ok heres the deal .......... Spoken to the C in C [ Home Fleet ] and explained the problem to her in detail and what I think we should do to over come the problem :( I am still here in on piece ............ As I See it ...I have to visit a good friend tomorrow who just happens to design and produce Model Boat Kits and is about an hours drive from me ....so I will ask his advice first ..which I suspect will be ....to take the SLA battery out and fit smaller motors and Ni-cad batteries which will make the model alot lighter ... but greatly reduce the scope of the project :( With the benefit of less weight ..I will be able to ballast the model [no ballast used when you have a 12v SLA 7.5 amp battery] This will mean NO electric's other than RX , speed controller, nicads and RX battery, two small motors, and rudder servo......not what I had in mind [if you have seen the wiring schematic for Manxman you will have a pretty good idea of what was going to be fitted ] MAY I SAY LADS .........This crusty annoyed modeler having seen his project shattered before his blood stained eyes ....would like to thank you both for your help and sympathy with my dilemma:o ......one of you being a Stoker .:D...and one of you being a Knob Turner :rolleyes: we were certain of sorting it out .........one way or another Your idea of a waterline model was a good one Sandy but I like working boats rather than static ones ...just me ...a frustrated sailor unlike you to ;)

Ivor, I know who you are going to see on the morrow and he will definitely come up with the solution. From what you are saying it looks to me like you already have a lot of weight in this boat. It seems to me one of the problems is probably the battery you are using - I would replace that with a 7.2 Volt which would serve both Speed Controller, Receiver and Rudder Servo. For Speed Controller a Mtroniks 15 or 20 would be ample. Now you will have reduced the overall weight in the hull thus raising the waterline where you can then see what ballasting is required. Analyise what Sandy has said, feed in my input, listen to Ron and then make your decision. I know you want to see this one running on the water - and tell Karen it will happen. DAve H

Good luck on your meeting with Ron today Ivor. I wouldn't disagree with anything that has been said on the subject so far (except maybe for some of the outlandish suggestions by "Destroyerman").:rolleyes: Just glad to see that fellow modellers rally round to help. Do keep us informed of any suggestions from Ron, who I suspect should know a thing or two. Hopefully your return should be accompanied by a greater resolve and a lighter, more positive mood. Regards, Sandy.

Ivor mate, dont listen to all that technical guff, you have the answer at your finger tips or should that be 'flipper' tips Jim [ATTACH]102657[/ATTACH] PS they dont call you Ivor the Diver for nothing
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Well done Jim.:D There's always a solution to everything, especially to combine a profession with a hobby. Great lateral thinking by the way.:D Sandy.

[QUOTE=Vegaskip;1721306]Ivor mate, dont listen to all that technical guff, you have the answer at your finger tips or should that be 'flipper' tips Jim [ATTACH]102657[/ATTACH] PS they dont call you Ivor the Diver for nothing[/QUOTE] OK Gang .....Jim As I have frequently said in the past your ability at painting ships pails into insignificance when you do one of your much prized Cartoons , and even here your attention to detail is flawless .......how did you know I had patches on my Dry Suit :confused:;) Better than mine obviously as I didn't check to see who's thread this was on . so I will no doubt get a cuff around the ear from C in C [ Home Fleet ] :o

[quote=Destroyerman;1721300]Good luck on your meeting with Ron today Ivor. I wouldn't disagree with anything that has been said on the subject so far (except maybe for some of the outlandish suggestions by "Destroyerman").:rolleyes: Just glad to see that fellow modellers rally round to help. Do keep us informed of any suggestions from Ron, who I suspect should know a thing or two. Hopefully your return should be accompanied by a greater resolve and a lighter, more positive mood. Regards, Sandy.[/quote] Indeed Sandy ...how right you are ...another reason why I respect and enjoy model making .....true modelers are constructive in their help and as we all know only the urine extractors at the lake side who were all authorities on RN Ships of all types and have centuries of model building experience Will post later with the results of the meeting and advice given This Forum is just like I imagine the Navy was like ........family help family members ............not something that I have had much of in my life time ...but which You and others along with Karen are displaying to me .....and I am enjoying so much so late in life... My thanks to you all from the heart friends :o

Well Sandy / Dave and others , Todays meeting went very well and hope was restored in finishing what I started to do ......:D In essence the previous comments expressed regarding Type 15 or in fact any destroyer were that the design of the hull was principally for speed and maneuverability To this end having told dear Ron of the problem I was having he said to get rid of the 12volt SLA battery, replace the 12volt motors with smaller 7 volt motors, and run on Ni cad batteries or Lipo .... He very patiently drew a diagram of centre of gravity and how this was affected by the distribution of fittings and their affect they play on the C of G........I know a little having been an Aero modeler but it would seem not enough :o His thoughts were to remove all ballast , lay a strip of lead from the front back as far as the motors [and if the central axis is suspect back to the rudder to ensure that the vessel sits level in the water on both plains He said that my initial thoughts were not practical on this model and reminded me that the comparison I was drawing from MANXMAN was not viable as she had three times the displacement of Troubridge and ...basically a Cruiser design and was configured for a different application in spite of her better top speed of 38+ knots So felling like a scolded child for being so naive , and benefiting from the Sages wisdom , I will be stripping my model back down to remove all the batteries , motors, wiring, ballast and start again :( So with fresh direction and renewed enthusiasm I will try again and hopefully learn from my mistake :o Thanks for listening and airing your thoughts which were taken on board and filed for future reference Regards Ivor

Great news Ivor. Now you are back on an even keel [excuse pun] it will be all hands to the pumps. Look forward to your progress reports and seeing water under the keel. Dave H

I got round the stability probem on my 1/96 type 14 model of HMS Keppel by designing a lead sonar dome and attaching it to the hull under the bridge. Not quite to scale but it worked
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Persevere Ivor, I am eagerly waiting the final result. I'm not a model maker but the stability of your model may be because the extra deck structure was lighter material than the hull. I expect you will be thinking " I know that"

[QUOTE=whalerman;1721462]I got round the stability probem on my 1/96 type 14 model of HMS Keppel by designing a lead sonar dome and attaching it to the hull under the bridge. Not quite to scale but it worked[/QUOTE] She looks good to me - nice idea, and it worked. BZ. Went to our boating water this morning and came back with some fresh ideas on boat I am currently putting together. And that what modelling is all about - the exchange of information on ways that work and avoiding them what don't. Dave H

Good news Ivor. We were entertaining last night so couldn't log-on. Also sailing "On Golden Pond" all day today, so first time I've booted up. Glad Ron took you through your paces. I have a feeling that he started producing his scale of hulls purely as high quality non RC models, and the locals decided that they would include electronics and put them on the water. Hence the 1:96 scale catalogue of ships that he produces. Perhaps not entirely suited to lumpy lakes, but very good kits to get one started in the ship modelling world. GRENVILLE and ZUKU were my first "training" kits and I certainly learned a lot of construction tips in their making. Glad to note that you now have a regenerated purpose in the TROUBRIDGE build and once again, remember Karen's motto: "There's nothing a British boy cannot do". Sandy.

[quote=whalerman;1721462]I got round the stability probem on my 1/96 type 14 model of HMS Keppel by designing a lead sonar dome and attaching it to the hull under the bridge. Not quite to scale but it worked[/quote] Thats a good idea mate , may have to result to that if the new plan is not up to it ....so thanks for the tip Regards Ivor

[quote=oldsalt;1721464]Persevere Ivor, I am eagerly waiting the final result. I'm not a model maker but the stability of your model may be because the extra deck structure was lighter material than the hull. I expect you will be thinking " I know that"[/quote] Thanks Keith ....and No I would not be that rude to you Hope it all goes alright , just saddened that I will not be able to build it the way I envisaged it as being once complete , and I hope I am worthy of your expectations ...but I will give it my best shot ....given the limitations I now have :o Warm Regards Ivor

[quote=Destroyerman;1721504]Good news Ivor. We were entertaining last night so couldn't log-on. Also sailing "On Golden Pond" all day today, so first time I've booted up. Glad Ron took you through your paces. I have a feeling that he started producing his scale of hulls purely as high quality non RC models, and the locals decided that they would include electronics and put them on the water. Hence the 1:96 scale catalogue of ships that he produces. Perhaps not entirely suited to lumpy lakes, but very good kits to get one started in the ship modelling world. GRENVILLE and ZUKU were my first "training" kits and I certainly learned a lot of construction tips in their making. Glad to note that you now have a regenerated purpose in the TROUBRIDGE build and once again, remember Karen's motto: "There's nothing a British boy cannot do". Sandy.[/quote] Thanks Sandy , Whilst I was at rons he gave me a CD of his models which he took down to Dover harbour and ran them out at Sea to prove their stability .....I could not believe the footage on there and the way his craft were going half under water when hitting waves bow on and righting themselves the other side ...just like the real thing ...and these were made thirty years ago and now in his showroom Let Me know and I will send you a copy if you like :) Lets hope I have more luck now :o Regards Ivor

[quote=Dave Hutson;1721469]She looks good to me - nice idea, and it worked. BZ. Went to our boating water this morning and came back with some fresh ideas on boat I am currently putting together. And that what modelling is all about - the exchange of information on ways that work and avoiding them what don't. Dave H[/quote] Know what you mean Dave ....great place to bounce ideas of others Lets try to convert them to fact and see how they work Eh mate :) Regards Ivor

Whalerman, what a wonderful model of the old girl.........good to see she is still "half leader" ! :) I served in that ship 1960-62.

Well lads that was encouraging :D Stripped the model down and removed all ballast and battery, and fitted new motors , and rerun the wiring , fitted some Ni cad size batteries and some sheet lead shaped to fit the hull lines ,re- fitted the superstructure that has been built so far and placed it gingerly in the bath ready to catch it before it turned turtle .......and it now has a very slight list to starboard and sits higher in the water .........[B][SIZE=6]YES[/SIZE][/B][SIZE=6][SIZE=2]:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D So back to fitting out the superstructure again and fitting the new speed controller and the RX then rebalance the model and try her on the water ;) [/SIZE][/SIZE]

Great news Ivor, well done.:D:) Keep us posted. Sandy.

[quote=Destroyerman;1722256]Great news Ivor, well done.:D:) Keep us posted. Sandy.[/quote] Thank you Sandy , I will do but I doubt it will be as interesting or well documented as yours was ....but will try .:o I was tempted to fit the" Sonar" counter balance but as of yet I think I might get away with it................ but early days yet :(

Hi Ivor, I sometimes have a list to stbd when I sit in the bath, 'specialy after tot time! Keep up the good work Jim

Know what you mean Jim , No work on her this weekend as I am due to retire in a couple of weeks so getting ready to start doing a few odd jobs for which I had to get tooled up for and organised Hope to restart on the superstructure during next week and re-wiring the Hull to take the revised motors . Will keep you posted Kind Regards Ivor

Hope you have 45000 HP motors for realism Ivor.

[quote=oldsalt;1722639]Hope you have 45000 HP motors for realism Ivor.[/quote] But of course Keith , what else ....to scale naturally :o Kind regards Ivor

Hope to take a picture or two of progress this week end lads .....if it stops raining long enough:(

You are OK so long as no-one starts calling you Noah... ;) :) Missy

[QUOTE=SheppeyMiss;1724926]You are OK so long as no-one starts calling you Noah... ;) :) Missy[/QUOTE] Mystery solved Ivor ........ she is back from wherever.

OK as promised here are a couple of pictures of HMS TROUBRIDGE in her part built state As you other Modellers already know,... I'm sure , a compromise sometimes has to be made whilst building a scale model , in my case very little detail to draw from other than long shots donated by Forum members and tips from those who served on her .....so do your worst lads ...... There are some items to be fitted on the decks and the ships boats ....and yes I know the detail on the masts is not 100% correct as apart from lack of detail I am very worried about trimming her out on completion as we have already found her to be top heavy and liable to turn turtle ....but the removal of the 12 volt battery and following advice from others she [B]was [/B]sitting nicely in the water ...but was incomplete at that stage So enough excuses.... be glad of any constructive criticism especially if you knew the ship first hand Regards Ivor
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try again eh:confused: Ok need technical assistance here .....adjusted the image to 9.5kb uploaded and posted but can't enlarge them :confused: What have I done wrong please:o
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I dont understand Ivor. :confused: 9.5kb is really tiny. What size is your original photograph??

[quote=astraltrader;1725238]I dont understand Ivor. :confused: 9.5kb is really tiny. What size is your original photograph??[/quote] About 2500 [ taken on a 10 Mega pixel Camera]

Third time lucky:confused: Well this looks promising ..at last you can see it now
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Well done Ivor. Perseverance pays off. Good images.:) She's looking good now, a type 15 as I remember them. Nowt wrong with the mast as I see it.;) I hope your stability issue has resolved itself now and the use of the styrene motor cutter and whaler supplied should help. They are very light. Keep up the good work. Sandy.

Thank you very much Sandy ......from you that is a compliment that I value very highly indeed I have been so nervous ...........about posting as I thought my humble efforts would be picked clean on the Forum viewed by people who knew and have seen one ...unlike me who has never seen one other than Forum pictures ...and only my second model boat ever let alone as near to scale as I could get her ....but size calculations were taken from a drawing of HMS Rapid which I managed to get my hands on ... Still a lot of work to be done but I hope to get her in the water in the next month or so and try her out on " shake down trials " so to speak Again thank you for your kindness

Ivor - it looks really excellent from the photographs [thanks for emailing me the little slideshow! :);)] How long did it take you to build??

Looks good Ivor, what do you use for whip aerials?, I used to use bristles cut from a yard broom. Jim

[quote=astraltrader;1725560]Ivor - it looks really excellent from the photographs [thanks for emailing me the little slideshow! :);)] How long did it take you to build??[/quote] So far its taken about 7 months but is only about 75% built , and I have yet to rig up the Electrics / Controls / R/C system, and a lot of detail to be completed As I said earlier I hope to get her in the water in about a month to see how she handles before finishing her off Glad you like her Terry as I said to Sandy I was dreading posting pictures of her as I have so little detail of her to work from Regards Ivor

[quote=Vegaskip;1725571]Looks good Ivor, what do you use for whip aerials?, I used to use bristles cut from a yard broom. Jim[/quote] Very imaginative Jim ....Don't know what its called but it is white plastic outer but very fine wire centre ...not cheap but easy to form and not likely to snap every time I was clumsy....... Glad you like it Jim Regards Ivor

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