RN Destroyers: C Class (1943) - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 6)

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RN Destroyers: C Class (1943) - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 6)

RN Destroyers: C Class (1943) (Page 6)

Posts 251 to 300

I have the photo below, taken in 1957, of which I believe is the 6th Destroyer Flotilla ... (but may be Squadron). The Flotilla Leader is HMS [I]Cavendish[/I] (D15), two Co sub-class ships [I]Comet[/I] (D26) and [I]Contest[/I] (D48) are beyond and I am guessing that the furthest destroyer may be HMS [I]Carysfort[/I]. Can anyone confirm or clarify what the latter warship is? Thanks David PS -- Regarding some previous discussion on this thread the term 'Flotilla Leader' does sound right. 'Squadron Leader' has RAF connotations
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Hi David , Great Photo , thanks for sharing it with us.........days when we had a Navy and one to be proud of eh ;)

Cheers Ivor, glad you liked the photo. I note that HMS [I]Chieftain, Chaplet [/I]and [I]Chevron[/I] were also serving in the Eastern Mediterranean at the time - and their formation/unit was the 1st Destroyer Squadron. So, in reference to the Flotilla/Squadron discussion further up this thread .... I am now veering towards the "Squadron" school of thought ie 6th Destroyer Squadron for the four C Class destroyers in the picture. David

[QUOTE=David Verghese;10049837]Cheers Ivor, glad you liked the photo. I note that HMS [I]Chieftain, Chaplet [/I]and [I]Chevron[/I] were also serving in the Eastern Mediterranean at the time - and their formation/unit was the 1st Destroyer Squadron. So, in reference to the Flotilla/Squadron discussion further up this thread .... I am now veering towards the "Squadron" school of thought ie 6th Destroyer Squadron for the four C Class destroyers in the picture. David[/QUOTE] We were 3rd destroyer squadron at Malta in58/59. Alan

[QUOTE=David Verghese;10049773]I have the photo below, taken in 1957, of which I believe is the 6th Destroyer Flotilla ... (but may be Squadron). The Flotilla Leader is HMS [I]Cavendish[/I] (D15), two Co sub-class ships [I]Comet[/I] (D26) and [I]Contest[/I] (D48) are beyond and I am guessing that the furthest destroyer may be HMS [I]Carysfort[/I]. Can anyone confirm or clarify what the latter warship is? Thanks David PS -- Regarding some previous discussion on this thread the term 'Flotilla Leader' does sound right. 'Squadron Leader' has RAF connotations[/QUOTE] Cannot confirm the fourth ship but it was your squadron that relieved us [1st D.S.] when we left after Suez. By then we were SQUADRONS nothing to do with the Crab......erase.......RAF :) Dave H

[I]I have the photo below, taken in 1957, of which I believe is the 6th Destroyer Flotilla ... (but may be Squadron). The Flotilla Leader is HMS [I]Cavendish[/I] (D15), two Co sub-class ships [I]Comet[/I] (D26) and [I]Contest[/I] (D48) are beyond and I am guessing that the furthest destroyer may be HMS [I]Carysfort[/I]. Can anyone confirm or clarify what the latter warship is?[/I] I am reasonably certain that it is HMS [I]Carysfort[/I]. From memory the date coincides with the flotilla on passage north off the Yorkshire coast when [I]Carysfort[/I] lost a boy seaman overboard. I was on [I]Contest[/I] and the flotilla spent several hours searching but to no avail. Regrettably I didn't keep a diary so I am not sure where we were headed, but it could have been for an Exercise Mariner between Scotland and the Fareos. Ken

"Off the Nth Yorkshire Coast"....All the Bridge Staff seem to be in Whites. Peter.

[QUOTE=Scratcher;10050083]"Off the Nth Yorkshire Coast"....All the Bridge Staff seem to be in Whites. Peter.[/QUOTE] Maybe it was a sunny day Peter. Alan

[quote=NSR;10050049][I]I have the photo below, taken in 1957, of which I believe is the 6th Destroyer Flotilla ... (but may be Squadron). The Flotilla Leader is HMS [I]Cavendish[/I] (D15), two Co sub-class ships [I]Comet[/I] (D26) and [I]Contest[/I] (D48) are beyond and I am guessing that the furthest destroyer may be HMS [I]Carysfort[/I]. Can anyone confirm or clarify what the latter warship is?[/I] I am reasonably certain that it is HMS [I]Carysfort[/I]. From memory the date coincides with the flotilla on passage north off the Yorkshire coast when [I]Carysfort[/I] lost a boy seaman overboard. I was on [I]Contest[/I] and the flotilla spent several hours searching but to no avail. Regrettably I didn't keep a diary so I am not sure where we were headed, but it could have been for an Exercise Mariner between Scotland and the Fareos. Ken[/quote] BOY OVERBOARD Possibly the loss of the Boy Seaman and the date the photo was taken could be far apart. I have a contact who has sent the following. If anyone has further info I will pass it back. "Could well be the Carysfort as she certainly is the same class as the Cavendish and was in the 6th DS at between '56 & 59. They did two home fleet and two med deployments but I can find nothing about a Boy going over the side. Any idea of some sort of date and I will then see if it is mentioned in the book RN Day by Day."

Re:- Unfortunate loss of Boy Seaman from "Carysfort". Have just trawled "Naval-History.Net", RN & RM Casualties 1914-2008. J/Sea 1c Peter D Seed, J.952584. 19th November 1957. HMS Carysfort. Regards, Ken H.

[quote=kenharrow;10050254]Re:- Unfortunate loss of Boy Seaman from "Carysfort". Have just trawled "Naval-History.Net", RN & RM Casualties 1914-2008. J/Sea 1c Peter D Seed, J.952584. 19th November 1957. HMS Carysfort. Regards, Ken H.[/quote] Tks Ken. If Peter Seed was a Ganges Boy and he most likely was his name will be added to the Roll of Honour if his name is not already included. P.S. Peter has now been added to the Roll of Honour. He is believed to have joined Ganges in September 1955.

Didn't spot the whites on the bridge so it would be some time after Suez when the flotilla/squadron were involved in visits to Istambul, Scicily, etc. After we returned from the Med we were involved in an exercise Mariner at about the end of 1957 which would agree with Ken H's research. We never knew the boy seaman's name but I understand that the messdeck auction of his kit raised a considerable sum for his parents. It was a sad loss for them. The other three ships offered to take part but Carysfort's crew felt it should be kept to his shipmates. Ken

HMS CAESAR visited the ports of Bunbury and Fremantle, Western Australia in Oct 64. I am looking for photos of her at that time, can anyone assist? Thank you. David Manolas

Any photo's of the best of the C class ship - Caprice, Last CA in the RN, should have been preserved instead of the Cavalier! Dave:D

[quote=David Manolas;10052746]HMS CAESAR visited the ports of Bunbury and Fremantle, Western Australia in Oct 64. I am looking for photos of her at that time, can anyone assist? Thank you. David Manolas[/quote] Hi David, I was on Caesar commish before you, flew back to UK late 62, we were Capt D 8. Hated the ship glad to get off the thing. Derek (Bunt)

Dear Derek, While we all remember! i think for the non-RN members of the forum it would be really useful for those with such wide experience of different drafts could contribute their thoughts as what makes a "happy ship" and what makes you remember a draft as you say in your last post. Maybe this should be a different thread? tim

[quote=DAVID HARPER;10052768]Any photo's of the best of the C class ship - Caprice, Last CA in the RN, should have been preserved instead of the Cavalier! Dave:D[/quote] There you go Dave. CAPRICE was operational before any of the 'Z' class appeared. Note that she lacked a DCT when first commissioned and was the last RN destroyer to have a 'Chicago Piano' fitted. When I joined her in Yarrow's yard at Scotstoun in January 1959 I thought I'd been drafted to Daddy's yacht. I soon dicovered my error when in any sort of sea we had to put up with 6" of water on the forr'd messdeck. The twin Bofor that was fitted during her maker's refit to replace the 4 barrelled pompom was reputedly 'borrowed' from KGV then being broken up. The pic of her in Grand Harbour was taken after my time since we sported a huge metal '8' fixed by brackets to both sides of the funnel. In spite of being ordered to remove it we hung on to it for the entire commission.
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Cheers 'Caprice 01', lovely shot of her in Grand Harbour, can't figure out whether before or after my time (66/67 commission). I know we replaced the figure 8 with 'Dow' figure for our Middle East spell, this would been whilst in Aden.The photo background shows another CA and possibly a GMD at anchor?. Don't know about fwd mess, I was in 13 mess, Aft next to the Chief's Mess. By-the-way what was the 'Piano' ? Dave

[quote=DAVID HARPER;10053049]Cheers 'Caprice 01', lovely shot of her in Grand Harbour, can't figure out whether before or after my time (66/67 commission). I know we replaced the figure 8 with 'Dow' figure for our Middle East spell, this would been whilst in Aden.The photo background shows another CA and possibly a GMD at anchor?. Don't know about fwd mess, I was in 13 mess, Aft next to the Chief's Mess. By-the-way what was the 'Piano' ? Dave[/quote] The CA Astern is CASSANDRA. Dave

[quote=DAVID HARPER;10053049]Cheers 'Caprice 01', lovely shot of her in Grand Harbour, can't figure out whether before or after my time (66/67 commission). I know we replaced the figure 8 with 'Dow' figure for our Middle East spell, this would been whilst in Aden.The photo background shows another CA and possibly a GMD at anchor?. Don't know about fwd mess, I was in 13 mess, Aft next to the Chief's Mess. By-the-way what was the 'Piano' ? Dave[/quote] Chicago Piano was a slang term for a multi barrelled 20mm AA gun, aka pom pom. Capital ships were invested with the 8 barrel version, smaller ships made do with 4 barrels. I faintly remember a single barrelled version but my memory isn't what it used to be. Their rate of fire was very slow, being half that of a 40mm Bofor. Pic 1 was taken aboard a carrier (Formidable?) at Okinawa. Pic 3 was taken on board KELVIN (Cdr. 'Mad Mike' Townsend). Townsend was awarded his DSO for sinking an entire convoy of 11 ships and its destroyer escort off the N. African coast. He was later D1 in CHEQUERS in the Med about 1950/1 Pic 5 is included to please our Aussie chums. It was taken aboard HMAS BATAAN. Pic 6 is an artist impressionof L/S Jackie Mantle, VC. From the London Gazette :- Leading Seaman Jack Mantle was in charge of the Starboard pom-pom gun when HMS Foylebank was attacked by enemy aircraft on the 4th of July 1940. Early in the action his left leg was shattered by a bomb, but he stood fast at his gun and went on firing with hand-gear only: for the ship's electric power had failed. Almost at once he was wounded again in many places. Between his bursts of fire he had time to reflect on the grievous injuries of which he was soon to die but his great courage bore him up till the end of the fight, when he fell by the gun he had so valiantly served.
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[quote=D01Caprice;10053183]Chicago Piano was a slang term for a multi barrelled 20mm AA gun, aka pom pom. Capital ships were invested with the 8 barrel version, smaller ships made do with 4 barrels. I faintly remember a single barrelled version but my memory isn't what it used to be. Their rate of fire was very slow, being half that of a 40mm Bofor. Pic 1 was taken aboard a carrier (Formidable?) at Okinawa. Pic 3 was taken on board KELVIN (Cdr. 'Mad Mike' Townsend). Townsend was awarded his DSO for sinking an entire convoy of 11 ships and its destroyer escort off the N. African coast. He was later D1 in CHEQUERS in the Med about 1950/1 Pic 5 is included to please our Aussie chums. It was taken aboard HMAS BATAAN. Pic 6 is an artist impressionof L/S Jackie Mantle, VC. From the London Gazette :- Leading Seaman Jack Mantle was in charge of the Starboard pom-pom gun when HMS Foylebank was attacked by enemy aircraft on the 4th of July 1940. Early in the action his left leg was shattered by a bomb, but he stood fast at his gun and went on firing with hand-gear only: for the ship's electric power had failed. Almost at once he was wounded again in many places. Between his bursts of fire he had time to reflect on the grievous injuries of which he was soon to die but his great courage bore him up till the end of the fight, when he fell by the gun he had so valiantly served.[/quote] Great photographs can you rescan at a higher resolution, preferably 300 dpi or larger.

HMS CARYSFORT: my last ship (always the best ship, of course) in company with GALATEA, AGINCOURT and TROUBRIDGE = 27th Escort Squadron.
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[quote=al1934;10053308]HMS CARYSFORT: my last ship (always the best ship, of course) in company with GALATEA, AGINCOURT and TROUBRIDGE = 27th Escort Squadron.[/quote] Morning Al, what year and where was the photo taken, I was on Agincourt in the Far East during the confrontation. Derek (Bunts)

Thanks 'D01Caprice' Chicargo Piano was before my time, we had the Bofors. Terrifying times, the only conflict during my time was Aden and Beira-guess I was fortunate. Thanks 'Rumrat' for info on the CA ship behind Caprice in Malta, those ships certainly looked the business for their time. Dave

Re #19: All my references say that the 2pdr Pom Pom was 40mm calibre. Picture 1 is one of series taken on Illustrious for a Picture Post article that was published 1st May 1942. The actual date of the photo is probably March 1942 and would have been taken near Scapa Flow. Picture 6: the artist has drawn a quad 0.5 inch Vickers MG rather than a Pom Pom - see attached photo - an altogether smaller weapon.
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[quote=al1934;10053308]HMS CARYSFORT: my last ship (always the best ship, of course) in company with GALATEA, AGINCOURT and TROUBRIDGE = 27th Escort Squadron.[/quote] Alick: A great photo! A very interesting mix of ships making up an escort squadron - a Leander Class frigate, a "C" Class destroyer, a "Battle" Class destroyer and a Type 15 frigate! Was that sort of a mix standard in RN escort squadrons in those days?

The Standard Anti Aircraft Gun of the Royal Navy during WW2 was the QF 2 Pounder Naval Gun. The 2-pounder gun, officially designated the QF 2-pounder (QF denoting "quick firing") and universally known as the pom-pom, is a large calibre British machine-gun, used famously as an anti-aircraft gun by the Royal Navy. The name came from the sound that the original models were reported to make when firing. The name 2 pounder is derived from the size of the projectile which weighed 2 pounds. The Royal Navy had identified the need for a rapid-firing, multi-barrelled close-range anti-aircraft weapon at an early stage. The design and eventual continued use of this weaopon was in part due to the the enormous stocks of 2-pounder ammunition left over from World War I. Known as the QF 2-pounder Mark VIII, it is usually referred to as the multiple pom-pom. The initial mounting was the enormous, 16-ton, eight-barrelled mounting Mark V (later Mark VI), suitable for ships of heavy cruiser and aircraft carrier size upwards. From 1935 the quadruple mounting Mark VII, essentially half a Mark V or VI, entered service for ships of destroyer and cruiser size. These multiple gun mounts required four different guns. The mount had 2 rows each of 2 or 4 weapons. Guns were produced in both right and left hand and "inner" and "outer" so that the feed and ejector mechanisms matched. An advanced weapon when introduced, by the outbreak of World War II advances in aircraft had effectively made it obsolete. It was intended that the curtain of fire it threw up would be sufficient to deter attacking aircraft but lack of a suitable tracer round meant that the barrage was unseen and so the deterrence factor was prevented from being effective. It had a low velocity due to the relatively short barrel and small charge, the fuse mechanism was unsatisfactory, the weapons were extremely complex and prone to jamming, and the mountings were enormously heavy and complicated and could not be produced quickly enough or fitted widely enough. When HMS Prince of Wales was attacked and sunk by Japanese aircraft near Singapore the subsequent report judged that the single 40 mm Bofors gun, mounted on the quarterdeck, had been a more effective anti-aircraft weapon than the entire battery of multiple pom-pom mounts. Apart from many of the issues noted above it was never entirely displaced by the Bofors gun during during WW2 Calibre: 40 mm L/39 ·Shell Weight: 2 lb. (980 g) or 1.8 lb. (820 g) for High-Velocity (HV) round ·Rate of Fire: 115 rpm fully automatic ·Effective Range: 3,800 yards (3,475 m) or 5,000 yards (4,572 m) HV ·Effective Ceiling (HV): 13,300 feet (3,960 m) ·Muzzle Velocity: 1,920 ft/s (585 m/s) this is the best description of the BRITISH Chicago piano i hav e found, the USN also had its own pianos which were generally smaller, 1.1" but aparently not much better than ours, my undedrstanding is that we kept our "pianos" long after they were obsolete simple because there were just not enough bofors and/or oerlikons to go round. Destoryers also had (prob otherc ships as well) multi-barelled weapons, the 1/2 inch 4 bbl machine guns fitted were smaller, and had the bbls vertical in (i think) drum fed mounts, the real pianos were fed by trays of shells. hope it helps tim

a couple of piano pics, sorry about the minute resolution tim the better pic is on a Tribal where the gun was aft of the torpedoes ahead of the searchlight and after steering position
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[quote=Derek Dicker;10053377]Morning Al, what year and where was the photo taken, I was on Agincourt in the Far East during the confrontation. Derek (Bunts)[/quote] Derek, as I understand it, the photo was taken during the '64-'66 commission, possibly out the FES or Med. I joined CARYSFORT August'64 in Pompey and left her 19 Nov'66 (47 years ago today!!!). During that time I don't remember the 27th ES being together for a photo like that but it could possibly have been in the Med? In the photo she seems to have upper deck awnings rigged aft, so it could have been in the Med or FES? We sailed for the Med in January'65 with AGINCOURT and were then ordered to the FES, crossing the line 7th February'65. AGINCOURT had a mechanical failure before we reached Port Said and didn't join us until later. We were actively involved in the Indonesian confrontation most of the time we were there in '65 but we returned to the Med with AGINCOURT about July'65 and joined GALATEA at Malta, all returning to the UK in September. I don't remember TROUBRIDGE but she may have been with us in the Med? She was not with us in the FES in '65. CARYSFORT returned to the FES in '66. I have an oppo who was onboard CARYSFORT from '66 so I will ask him if he can throw some more light on it. Best wishes

[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KsXYK_CNoQ[/URL] a short clip of piano playing which is reported to be from the pacific campaign showing they were still in use at the end of the war at sea.

[quote=Scatari;10053417]Alick: A great photo! A very interesting mix of ships making up an escort squadron - a Leander Class frigate, a "C" Class destroyer, a "Battle" Class destroyer and a Type 15 frigate! Was that sort of a mix standard in RN escort squadrons in those days?[/quote] It is a great photo, isn't it, Tim. I hadn't thought about the mix of ships before and I really don't know the answer to your question. I assume it was something to do with the capabilities of each ship, adding up to a "package"... CARYSFORT was primarily a gunnery and a/s ship. During my time onboard, our CO was a Gunnery Officer who also delighted in chasing Russian subs, usually at lunchtime, as was usual in destroyers. Best wishes

[quote=Derek Dicker;10053377]Morning Al, what year and where was the photo taken, I was on Agincourt in the Far East during the confrontation. Derek (Bunts)[/quote] I've asked my oppo and we both think the photo was taken in '66 in the Med. Great photo, anyway! Best wishes

More photos of CARYSFORT on the FES. Happy days...
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Great pics, thanks.

[quote=al1934;10053308]HMS CARYSFORT: my last ship (always the best ship, of course) in company with GALATEA, AGINCOURT and TROUBRIDGE = 27th Escort Squadron.[/quote] I was on the Carysfort 64- 65 and if my memory serves me well it was talen in 65 in the Med it was if memory serves me well it was the only time the 27th escort was ever together at sea we went to the fes along with the Agincourt Galatea and troubridge stayed in the med .Two best ships went out east

[quote=BIG LES;10053633]I was on the Carysfort 64- 65 and if my memory serves me well it was talen in 65 in the Med it was if memory serves me well it was the only time the 27th escort was ever together at sea we went to the fes along with the Agincourt Galatea and troubridge stayed in the med .Two best ships went out east[/quote] BIG LES, see my post 28. It must have been taken after we got back to the Med, between July and September. You must have been onboard the same time as I was. I joined August'64 and left November'65 at Guzz. Best wishes

[quote=limeybiker;10053190]Great photographs can you rescan at a higher resolution, preferably 300 dpi or larger.[/quote] Much regret that I cannot oblige. I downloaded the pics, and info, from the Net. I spent a long time trawling the Net to find a free program that I could use to met your reasonable request but all I ended up doing was to pick up 3 viruses thanks to Pirate Bay. My sins have found me out in this case, or as we say in these parts, karma. I've spent long hours since just cleaning my system up. Now is as it should be and ready for Captain (D)'s inspection. If I had actual photgraphs rescanning them would have been a doddle but in the circumstances I do not know what I can do to oblige. I'd be grateful if some guru would tell me how. For 60 years I believed the 2 pounder fired 20mm shells. Now I know different thanks to those more knowledgeable and diligent than myself. Charlie Revell, the Chief GI in SUPERB, wished the ones we had were hoisted overboard and dropped from a great height.

Instead of equipping with a Chicago piano maybe a Stalin's organ might have been more effective. :D It would have been mounted on the bandstand of course.

More photos of CARYSFORT arriving Malta Jan'65 and on FES '65 - rest your cursor on each and all will be revealed:
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The 2pdr used the 40mmx158R shell, while the 40mm L/60 Bofors used the 311R shell. This pic (somewhat small) shows the difference... the two on the far right. This is why the 2pdr was considered "short-ranged and inadequate"... a simple lack of casing volume restricted the weight of powder, and thus weight of shell and muzzle velocity. 40mm Bofors: Muzzle velocity: L/60: 881 m/s (2,890 ft/s) Maximum range: L/60: 7,160 m (23,490 ft) Projectile weight: HE - 1.970 lbs. (0.894 kg) Bursting Charge: HE - 0.150 lbs. (0.068 kg) Cast TNT 2pdr: Muzzle velocity (HV): new gun: 732 m/s (2,400 ft/s); worn gun: 701 m/s (2,300 ft/s)[1] Maximum range (HV): 6,220 m (20,400 ft) at 732 m/s; 4,572 m (15,000 ft) at 701 m/s Projectile weight: HE HV - 1.81 lbs. (0.82 kg) Bursting Charge: HE HV - no info I include a second pic to show how the other light AA rounds compared.
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CARYSFORT photos: Making smoke '64 and CARYSFORT alongside in HK in May'65, with two US submarines, which were on R&R from Vietnam.
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[quote=al1934;10053642]BIG LES, see my post 28. It must have been taken after we got back to the Med, between July and September. You must have been onboard the same time as I was. I joined August'64 and left November'65 at Guzz. Best wishes[/quote] The gray matter is not what it used to be alick ,but i know it was 65. so you are most likely right.I joined her just at the end of the rifit in gib there was a load of us flew out from gatwick bobby gresham was in charge of us .there was ajuniors mess 15 mess down aft under Y mounting we all split up later i was in the focsle mess one mess i left her in 66 great ship

[quote=BIG LES;10053946]The gray matter is not what it used to alick be ,but i know it was 65. so you are most likely right.I joined her just at the end of the rifit in gib there was a load of us flew out from gatwick bobby gresham was in charge of us .there was ajuniors mess 15 mess down aft under Y mounting we all split up later i was in the focsle mess one mess i left her in 66 great ship[/quote] Your gray matter is doing fine. I was in the POs' Mess, 16 Mess, next to your mess. There was nothing much behind us....... Best wishes

CARYSFORT's publicity leaflet, handed out to all visitors and at Navy Days:
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I also served onboard CARRON '61-'62, when she was Navigation Training based in Pompey. The '45s had been removed but we used to exercise our torpedo tubes, to keep Vernon happy. I'm posting some photos, mostly taken in 1960, before I joined her.
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[quote=al1934;10056106]I also served onboard CARRON '61-'62, when she was Navigation Training based in Pompey. The '45s had been removed but we used to exercise our torpedo tubes, to keep Vernon happy. I'm posting some photos, mostly taken in 1960, before I joined her.[/quote] Lovely photos Alik, thanks for posting, Alan

Thanks, Alan I forgot to mention, we used to call her the Dirty Thirty, after her pennant number. Most unfair. She was a smart ship. Best wishes

Absolutely superb images of HMS CARRON Alick.;) Great detail. Thanks for that. Sandy.

[quote=Destroyerman;10056150]Absolutely superb images of HMS CARRON Alick.;) Great detail. Thanks for that. Sandy.[/quote] Thanks, Sandy. They are official pusser's photos, which were given to me when I was onboard. Good quality photography by the Phot branch. Best wishes

[quote=al1934;10056106]I also served onboard CARRON '61-'62, when she was Navigation Training based in Pompey. The '45s had been removed but we used to exercise our torpedo tubes, to keep Vernon happy. I'm posting some photos, mostly taken in 1960, before I joined her.[/quote] Very nice pics, Alick Steve

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