RN Destroyers: C Class (1943) - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 4)

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RN Destroyers: C Class (1943) - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 4)

RN Destroyers: C Class (1943) (Page 4)

Posts 151 to 200

[QUOTE=Macnab;108687]we hit a Gash barge coming out of Malta , on way to Suez fraca`s correct? Roxboro was only a two and half ringer then i think[/QUOTE] We also had a close shave when i was on her in 65 with a french sub

What year was she scrapped mid 60`s ? , we were up by Tower Bridge after coming back ,and the cook nicked our only motor boat,( he being steamed up) and left it on Wapping steps, unfortunately it got in the Daily Mirror, and all the thames bargemen as they went by gave several comments, lots of lively things happened on contest, a very hectic xmas in Gib was another, :)

[B]CONTEST[/B] Laid down 1 Nov 43. Launched from J.S. White's IOW yard 16 Dec 44. Completed 9 Nov 45. Into Reserve 59. Went to Grays to be broken up in Feb 60.

[QUOTE=Mousey;108724][B]CONTEST[/B] Laid down 1 Nov 43. Launched from J.S. White's IOW yard 16 Dec 44. Completed 9 Nov 45. Into Reserve 59. Went to Grays to be broken up in Feb 60.[/QUOTE] Many thanks for information, must have shaved with the old lady many times, but theres still a lot of her former crews out there good easter to all of them

[I]Originally Posted by Macnab we hit a Gash barge coming out of Malta , on way to Suez fraca`s correct? Roxboro was only a two and half ringer then i think[/I] I think that you are right that he was a two and a half at the time. Regarding the gash barge, we scraped her while going astern out of French Creek and by the time we started to swing in Grand Harbour to line up fo the entrance we had picked up a list. Went back into French Creek and pumped ballast to bring the hole above water - a quick welding job and we were off again. The electricians did quite a bit of cussing as although the hole was quite small, it had flooded the starboard compartment by the stern tube where they kept their spares. They had to be hauled out, washed out with distilled water and dried before they could be restowed. It was the second time in two days but that is also another story. Ken

A couple of not very good snapshots I took of HMS CAPRICE at Devonport in the late 1970's. The second shows her leaving for the scrapyard in, I think, 1979. unfortunately she's rather obscured by the large tug. (ROBUST, ROLLICKER or ROYSTERER) Regards......Paul
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Interesting pictures Paul. VMT for posting them for us. :)

Paul, CAPRICE Ended her seagoing days as Engineering officers training ship based at Devonport and was payed off for disposal by March 1973,In October 1973 she was towed to the Medway for scrapping,your photograph shows ROBUST towing her stern first out of Devonport prior to her being picked up by a deep sea tug for the tow to the medway. Nice pictures by the way. Regards Dave

A little more info about [B]CAPRICE.[/B] I find the position of the refuelling line interesting. Ours was taken onboard at the break. At least that was where it went inboard from. What a pong during refuelling!
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Reference my post 156 and 'rumrat's' 158 above. Dave, thank you for pointing out that my photos were early, not late, 1970's. I think I was getting a little mixed up between CAPRICE and ULSTER which also left under tow for the scrapyard at the end of that decade. (actually just discovered ULSTER left in Oct 1980) In view of amended dates for CAPRICE, the photos may not be mine, possibly given to me by friends or colleagues, which used to happen quite often in those far-off days'. Regards .......Paul

[QUOTE=Mousey;114472]A little more info about [B]CAPRICE.[/B] I find the position of the refuelling line interesting. Ours was taken onboard at the break. At least that was where it went inboard from. What a pong during refuelling![/QUOTE] We had (carysfort) fuel points port stb more or less of A gun just outside the fwd POs doors and used them most .We had them on the break also .We used those points when takinf FFO on whilst alongside also water

Post #158 possibly shows Caprice being towed stern first by a Dog Class tug, with Robust taking over the tow to the Medway when clear of the harbour.

Re, post 162 above. Jim, yes, it does seem a bit pointless using ROBUST for such a short journey as she and her two sister vessels were certainly 'ocean going' and took ARK ROYAL and EAGLE away on their 'scrapping' voyage a few years later. Maybe there was some contractual issue, but it still seems a little strange. Regards.......Paul

[B]HMS CAVALIER[/B] The old Girl needs your votes please. The link is self explanatory. [url]http://www.chdt.org.uk/NetsiteCMS/pageid/930/The%20National%20Lottery%20Awards%202010%20-%20vote%20for%20HMS%20Cavalier!.html[/url] Thank you.

Voted with pleasure :)

What more could I do, as an old CA man in the sixtys Caesar 8th DS Derek (Bunts)

Done with pleasure... What more could a ex Battle Blass (x2) man do but help save the next best;) ... well I am nearly a [B]Ca[/B] man being ex [B]Ca[/B]mperdown:) Hope for success!! Little h

And please what does CA stand for?

[QUOTE=astraltrader;117884]And please what does CA stand for?[/QUOTE] The C class destroyers that started with the letters CA.. Please see:- [url]http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/c_class.htm[/url] Little h

I can confirm that in the case of the CA class the 4.5's did not have RPC initially. At least one, Caprice, commissioned without a DCT, the others were fitted with Mk5 directors and 285 radar. Caprice joined the Fleet before any of the 'Z' class commissioned. After escorting a number of convoys to Russia she was refitted and a DCT installed before sailing to join the East Indies station. I joined her at Yarrow's yard in early January 1959 after she had undergone a total modernisation and maker's refit. RPC was fitted, the director was replaced with a MK.6M model with 275 radar, the fire control system was the new Flyplane 5, a set of TT's was removed and two Squid mortars situated where X gun had been. All modern materials were used to fit out the mess decks and my first impression was that I had joined Daddy's yacht. After sea and acceptance trials we sailed for Portsmouth being totally battered all the way by one of the worst seas that I ever experienced. Of the 14 members of the FX Seaman's Mess only 3 did not succumb to mal de mer. Even the C.O. complained that he had been thrown out of his bunk three times. Problems with the condensers held us up in Portsmouth until early April when we took off for Singapore having been given permission for a fast passage. AFAIK the only ships on the FES at the time were ourselves, Cavalier and the frigate Crane. The Aussies chipped in Voyager and Vendetta and the Kiwis were represented by the frigate Pukaki. We were joined later by Carysfort and Cavendish (Captain D). We were a very happy and efficient ship and won most of the pots available for professional expertise and sporting prowess. In one exercise off the Philippines with the USN, after watching two US destroyers turn the sky black with exploding ordnance without even scratching anything, we shot down 4 radio controlled drones with only 13 broadsides. I understand that she was sold to the breakers for a mere 15K sterling.

[COLOR="Blue"][B]H.M.S. CAVALIER[/B][/COLOR] I thought you might like to see this excellent foto of Cavalier which has just won a Lottery award for education. [For those who do not know, as I did not originally, after clicking on the thumbnail click again for a larger version]. For further details have a look at the Chatham Historic Dockyard site.
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CAVENDISH with CARYSFORT in hot pursuit. Regards gerry
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Astraltrader and your # 168. The 4 flotillas or groups as built comprised the CA, CH, CO, CR classes and each ship within that group had their names commence with each of the 2 letters. However, there would also have been a CE group, but they morphed into the Weapon class, of which ultimately only 4 entered service. Celt and Centaur were the 2 commenced as such, the former becoming Sword and duly cancelled, whilst Centaur was firstly renamed Tomahawk and then entered service as Scorpion. Centaur was duly the name given to a Hermes class light fleet carrier and saw service as such.

CAPRICE in dry dock in Singapore. We had discovered that we had stripped a turbine when in Tokyo and came back on one engine - but with the wick turned up. When in dockyard hands I took 2 weeks station leave and went to an Army rest camp at Penang. Later I went on anti terrorist patrol through rubber plantations with the Staffordshires and a few Ghurkas.
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The first picture was taken during the 1959-60 commission and the giveaway is the over large steel figure '8' held by brackets on the funnel. The C.O. designate then standing by the ship in Yarrows yard came up with the idea. After joining the FES It was ordered to be removed on at least two occasions and although it was entered into the dockyard repair list, we managed to hang on to it. The second picture is of a much later vintage after modifications to the bridge superstructure and foremast had been carried out. Looks as if she was doing a 'sub' for the Skylark by giving trips around the harbour. The third shows her being broken up at Queenborough on the Isle of Sheppey. Having spent the best 20 months of my young life running her hard to see her treated so goes against my grain.
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[QUOTE=D01Caprice;156674]The first picture was taken during the 1959-60 commission and the giveaway is the over large steel figure '8' held by brackets on the funnel. The C.O. designate then standing by the ship in Yarrows yard came up with the idea. After joining the FES It was ordered to be removed on at least two occasions and although it was entered into the dockyard repair list, we managed to hang on to it. The second picture is of a much later vintage after modifications to the bridge superstructure and foremast had been carried out. Looks as if she was doing a 'sub' for the Skylark by giving trips around the harbour. The third shows her being broken up at Queenborough on the Isle of Sheppey. Having spent the best 20 months of my young life running her hard to see her treated so goes against my grain.[/QUOTE] 2nd pic ~ what a tidley whaler!

[QUOTE=BIG LES;114659]We had (carysfort) fuel points port stb more or less of A gun just outside the fwd POs doors and used them most .We had them on the break also .We used those points when takinf FFO on whilst alongside also water[/QUOTE] Same same Caprice. A modification that we had carried out was to connect the two fuel lines. This meant that we could refuel in almost half the time.

[QUOTE=D01Caprice;156674]The first picture was taken during the 1959-60 commission and the giveaway is the over large steel figure '8' held by brackets on the funnel. The C.O. designate then standing by the ship in Yarrows yard came up with the idea. After joining the FES It was ordered to be removed on at least two occasions and although it was entered into the dockyard repair list, we managed to hang on to it. The second picture is of a much later vintage after modifications to the bridge superstructure and foremast had been carried out. Looks as if she was doing a 'sub' for the Skylark by giving trips around the harbour. The third shows her being broken up at Queenborough on the Isle of Sheppey. Having spent the best 20 months of my young life running her hard to see her treated so goes against my grain.[/QUOTE] Mng all, what a sad sight, unfortunately this rape of our Royal Navy is common action these days. Derek (bunts)

[QUOTE=Derek Dicker;160113]Mng all, what a sad sight, unfortunately this rape of our Royal Navy is common action these days. Derek (bunts)[/QUOTE] Hi Derek, to be fair I think she had a fair length of service, as against some of our modern Navy. Alan

Hi Alan, yes I would agree with your comment, having served on a CA. HMS Caesar in the same squadron (yes we did have squadrons and flotillas). in those days. Derek (Bunts)

[QUOTE=BIG LES;96063]We were fitted for but not with seacat we did not have the aft bofor either .I remember well bacause the GI had his office in what would have been the saecat magazine(bofor mag ) he also lived up their too the staag were taken off early doors in there life i think by the early 60 to mid there were only a few type 15s with stagg .Cant help wih photies i have non only of the carysfort i was on[/QUOTE] I am trying to build a scale model of the good ship Carysfort and have purchased a copy of the ship's plans including the last modifications carried out during the last major refit in Gibraltar. It certainly helps to refresh the memory regarding the ship's lay-out. Regards John

[B][I]CHEQUERS AND THE 1ST D.F.[/I][/B] Old 1st DF'ers [1st Destroyer Fleet] of the early 1950's era might like to read the attached which is posted with Tim Lewin's permission who now holds the rights to the book ~ "Lewin of Greenwich."
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[QUOTE=Mousey;163358][B][I]CHEQUERS AND THE 1ST D.F.[/I][/B] Old 1st DF'ers [1st Destroyer Fleet] of the early 1950's era might like to read the attached which is posted with Tim Lewin's permission who now holds the rights to the book ~ "Lewin of Greenwich."[/QUOTE] David/Mousey, Query? 1st DF = 1st Destroyer Flotilla or 1st Destroyer Fleet? Little h

[quote=harry.gibbon;170865]David/Mousey, Query? 1st DF = 1st Destroyer Flotilla or 1st Destroyer Fleet? Little h[/quote] Good question Harry. I did not realise until I looked it up ~ so we could say 1st Destroyer Small Fleet. ;)

[QUOTE=harry.gibbon;170865]David/Mousey, Query? 1st DF = 1st Destroyer Flotilla or 1st Destroyer Fleet? Little h[/QUOTE] First Destroyer SQUADRON please Dave H

[quote=Dave Hutson;170910]First Destroyer SQUADRON please Dave H[/quote] Interesting point there Dave as technically both are correct! The RN generally used squadrons for the larger warships and flotillas for the smaller. Destroyers formed the cut off point being the largest type of Flotilla as well as being used in Squadrons. Generally I think I am also right in saying that Destroyer Squadrons were more typically used in WW1 whereas during WW2 and after they were called Destroyer Flotillas.

[QUOTE=astraltrader;170912]Interesting point there Dave as technically both are correct! Generally I think I am also right in saying that Destroyer Squadrons were more typically used in WW1 whereas during WW2 and after they were called Destroyer Flotillas.[/QUOTE] TerryDave, Just had to log on to defend my 'honour' on this one:- My post was specific to David/Mousey's contribution which expanded 1st DF to read 1st Destroyer [B]Fleet[/B]. I know that DS = Destroyer Squadron, having served on ships in both the 3rd DS and the 1st DS respectively (late 50's early 60's), so perhaps your assumption should be reversed Terry. However, I am also aware that DF = Destroyer Flotilla, but had never seen DF used to mean Destroyer Fleet. There now that makes me feel better:) Little h

[QUOTE=harry.gibbon;170916]TerryDave, Just had to log on to defend my 'honour' on this one:- My post was specific to David/Mousey's contribution which expanded 1st DF to read 1st Destroyer [B]Fleet[/B]. I know that DS = Destroyer Squadron, having served on ships in both the 3rd DS and the 1st DS respectively (late 50's early 60's), so perhaps your assumption should be reversed Terry. However, I am also aware that DF = Destroyer Flotilla, but had never seen DF used to mean Destroyer Fleet. There now that makes me feel better:) Little h[/QUOTE] Apologies Supergolly - sitting here with foot in mouth :o Ch Tel

[quote=harry.gibbon;170916]TerryDave, Just had to log on to defend my 'honour' on this one:- My post was specific to David/Mousey's contribution which expanded 1st DF to read 1st Destroyer [B]Fleet[/B]. I know that DS = Destroyer Squadron, having served on ships in both the 3rd DS and the 1st DS respectively (late 50's early 60's), so perhaps your assumption should be reversed Terry. However, I am also aware that DF = Destroyer Flotilla, but had never seen DF used to mean Destroyer Fleet. There now that makes me feel better:) Little h[/quote] I accept that my years might have been out but I stick with my main point that the RN had both Destroyer Flotillas and Squadrons. :)

SQUADRON OR FLOTILLA? A little clarification Gents. When I joined Pelican on 5 Jul 50 she was leader of the 3rd F.F. When I joined Chequers on 1 Jan 51 she was leader of the 1st D.F. At that time I believe the 1st C.S. was part of the Med. fleet. Also at that time 'sweepers and subs' were in flotillas. Later but certainly before 1952 flotillas became squadrons as a result I believe of NATO standardising identifications/classifications? Perhaps someone can locate the details in the history of NATO as I'm off to play Drake's game during the 2nd dog. [Dog - dogwatch 1800-2000. Med - a sea stretching from Gib (Gibraltar) to Turkey and from southern Europe to the north African coast.] P.S. Of course it does not matter anymore as we do not have enough ships to make up one of either. I seem to remember T.F.'s (Task Forces?) whereby various numbers and decimel points were added until you go down to the 'ship' concerned. A nice little point for someone to explain!

[QUOTE=astraltrader;170912]Interesting point there Dave as technically both are correct! The RN generally used squadrons for the larger warships and flotillas for the smaller. Destroyers formed the cut off point being the largest type of Flotilla as well as being used in Squadrons. Generally I think I am also right in saying that Destroyer Squadrons were more typically used in WW1 whereas during WW2 and after they were called Destroyer Flotillas.[/QUOTE] Not strictly true. But I guess it depends when you were talking about. In my time Submarines and minesweepers WERE in squadrons and I seem to remember when I was on Chaplet in 1961 I was in a destroyer (7th??) squadron! Fred Sorry!

Hi Dave, Yep, A ship could be a TE [Element] within a TU [Unit] within a TG [Group] part of a TF [Force]. Could get quite confusing at times. Sorry folks - A Task Force would be formed of many ships which under one Command would be divided into Groups [ie a Carrier Group consisting of Carrier and Escorts] each with their own Command, These Groups could then be broken down into Units again each with their own Command [ie a Destroyer Squadron] then finally there would be Elements which were ships or units acting independently of the Unit but reporting back to the Command of their Task Unit. Should that element, for instance, be a Submarine on shadowing assignment he could be reporting direct to the Commander of the Unit, Group or Force dependent upon his orders, the content of that report and the severity of the threat or information contained therein. The Element could also be more than one ship/submarine. Hope this make sense, if not, perhaps someone else wants to try. Dave H

[quote=Dave Hutson;170974]Hi Dave, Yes, A ship could be a TE [Element] within a TU [Unit] within a TG [Group] part of a TF [Force]. Could get quite confusing at times. Sorry folks - A Task Force would be formed of many ships which under one Command would be divided into Groups [ie a Carrier Group consisting of Carrier and Escorts] each with their own Command, These Groups could then be broken down into Units again each with their own Command [ie a Destroyer Squadron] then finally there would be Elements which were ships or units acting independently of the Unit but reporting back to the Command of their Task Unit. Should that element, for instance, be a Submarine on shadowing assignment he could be reporting direct to the Commander of the Unit, Group or Force dependent upon his orders, the content of that report and the severity of the threat or information contained therein. The Element could also be more than one ship/submarine. Hope this make sense, if not, perhaps someone else wants to try. Dave H[/quote] A valiant effort Dave which brings back memories and hopefully gets others thinking and scratching their beards! Meanwhile back to the other job in hand. Drake must have been pleased as it was a beautiful evening on the green at Horsham but alas it ended up Reigate Priory 2 pts Horsham 8. They have 70 male members whereas we have only 28 but no excuses at least the local liquid was excellent. I have since managed to unearth the following and standby my assertion re the changeover from Flotilla to Squadron in about 1952 as proven by the following ~ NATO was formed as a result of the North Atlantic Treaty, which was signed by 12 countries on April 4, 1949, in Washington, D.C. The 12 countries were Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Greece and Turkey joined NATO in 1952. West Germany joined in 1955. Germany replaced West Germany as a NATO member in 1990, when West Germany and East Germany were united. Spain joined NATO in 1982. 　 1 9 5 2 January Harwich deployment in continuation. HMS Fleet Minesweeper LAERTES replaced HMS MANDATE which went into Reserve. February Harwich training and Fleet duties in continuation to (Note Ships of Flotilla were deployed for NATO and other RN exercises during this period December and visited ports in UK and NATO countries during routine programme. Designation of Flotilla changed to 4th Minesweeping Squadron.) [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]　[/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT] Please note the last line. Any other offers?:DOf course that could be wiped off my post?

David, I have no quibble with the timing of any changeover from DF to DS ... absolutely none at all mate!!! However with regard to some other contributors, there seems to have been an lack of reading of previous posts before putting finger tip to keyboard... in that .... my earlier post was querying the use of DF to mean [B]D[/B]estroyer [B]F[/B]leet!!! quite simply that... nothing else ... and it was most likely a senior moment for you at the time mate. So carry on regardless and if you get a chance to wrench yourself away from that flat green stuff:D then grab the oppurtinity to poke your eyes in the direction of the Aerials/Arrays thread soon, because a glimpse of a gizmo might reveal itself... you never know eh:):) Little h

A final shot from an olde Flotilla matelot ~ "A [B]flotilla[/B] (from [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language"][COLOR=#000000]Spanish[/COLOR][/URL], meaning a small [I]flota[/I] ([URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_fleet"][COLOR=#000000]fleet[/COLOR][/URL]) of ships, and this from French [I]flotte[/I]), or [B]naval flotilla[/B], is a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_formation"][COLOR=#000000]formation[/COLOR][/URL] of small [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warship"][COLOR=#000000]warships[/COLOR][/URL] that may be part of a larger fleet. A flotilla is usually composed of a homogeneous group of the same [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_class"][COLOR=#000000]class[/COLOR][/URL] of warship, such as [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigates"][COLOR=#000000]frigates[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers"][COLOR=#000000]destroyers[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_boats"][COLOR=#000000]torpedo boats[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarines"][COLOR=#000000]submarines[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboats"][COLOR=#000000]gunboats[/COLOR][/URL], or [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minesweeper_(ship)"][COLOR=#000000]minesweepers[/COLOR][/URL]. Groups of larger warships are usually called [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_(naval)"][COLOR=#000000]squadrons[/COLOR][/URL], but similar units of non-capital ships may be called squadrons in some places and times, and flotillas in others. A flotilla is usually commanded by a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_Admiral"][COLOR=#000000]Rear Admiral[/COLOR][/URL], a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_(rank)"][COLOR=#000000]Commodore[/COLOR][/URL] or a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(naval)"][COLOR=#000000]Captain[/COLOR][/URL], depending on the importance of the command (a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_Admiral"][COLOR=#000000]Vice Admiral[/COLOR][/URL] would normally command a squadron). A flotilla is often divided into two or more [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Division_(naval)&action=edit&redlink=1"][COLOR=#ba0000]divisions[/COLOR][/URL], each of which might be commanded by the most senior [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander"][COLOR=#000000]Commander[/COLOR][/URL]. A flotilla is often, but not necessarily, a permanent formation. In modern navies, flotillas have tended to become administrative units containing several [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_(naval)"][COLOR=#000000]squadrons[/COLOR][/URL]. As [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warships"][COLOR=#000000]warships[/COLOR][/URL] have grown larger, the term squadron has gradually replaced the term flotilla for [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation"][COLOR=#000000]formations[/COLOR][/URL] of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers"][COLOR=#000000]destroyers[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigates"][COLOR=#000000]frigates[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarines"][COLOR=#000000]submarines[/COLOR][/URL] in many navies." Gizmo? What Gizmo? Glad you have not given up on it Harry. If I can find my way through all those AE's I must have a look. But please no more of those weird and wonderful gunnery 'clocks' as I find it difficult to work out the time they are telling. Certainly not good old GMT. Cheers.

For what its worth my understanding is that Flotilla was used during the War (second) for destroyer formations and into the early fifties but changed between 1950 and 1955 to squadron in keeping with USN parlance as NATO grew in significance so when my father joined Chequers in 1949/50 she was part of the 1st destroyer flotilla but when he took over Corunna in 1956 she was part of the 4th destroyer sqn! and by 1961 he took over Urchin, she was part, leader, of the 17th FS, Frigate Sqn, the term flotilla was left to flocks of smaller craft! tim

[QUOTE=tim lewin;171030]For what its worth my understanding is that Flotilla was used during the War (second) for destroyer formations and into the early fifties but changed between 1950 and 1955 to squadron in keeping with USN parlance as NATO grew in significance so when my father joined Chequers in 1949/50 she was part of the 1st destroyer flotilla but when he took over Corunna in 1956 she was part of the 4th destroyer sqn! and by 1961 he took over Urchin, she was part, leader, of the 17th FS, Frigate Sqn, the term flotilla was left to flocks of smaller craft! tim[/QUOTE] I think you will find it changed to squadron in the early sixties.A lot of the CA's left the eight in 1961 and two most went for refit in Gibraltar and emerged as squadron ships

[QUOTE=BIG LES;171068]I think you will find it changed to squadron in the early sixties.A lot of the CA's left the eight in 1961 and two most went for refit in Gibraltar and emerged as squadron ships[/QUOTE] Hi Big Les, Earlier mate, I was in the 6th FS [Undine] in October 1954 then 1st DS from mid 1955. Heck, this argument could go on and on. You say tomato I say tomarter - all same but different. Dave H

I think that we are going nowhere with this latest part of the thread. We now know that sometime between the late 50s and early 60s it changed. Unless someone can come up with concrete evidence then perhaps we should move on with this interesting thread. Dave

[QUOTE=qprdave;171109]I think that we are going nowhere with this latest part of the thread. We now know that sometime between the late 50s and early 60s it changed. Unless someone can come up with concrete evidence then perhaps we should move on with this interesting thread. Dave[/QUOTE] The voice of reason prevails. Thanks Dave. In the words off TT [Lewin] "Make it so" Dave H

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