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RN Submarines: E-Class - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 3)


RN Submarines: E-Class (Page 3)


Posts 101 to 141


Sure, will send you a Personal Message and do some resarch for you. Remember too she & E15 has unique arrangement for her forward Diving rudders.

Hi Clive, in Post #19 of this Thread you Posted a Photo of Laurence & Horton, and the discussion came up that i did not think that was Horton. In the book Beneath the Waves by A.S. Evans Page 65 it has this same photo, and they list this as Laurence & his friend Lt A.G. Jameson, washed overboard from D2 in 1914. What do you think?
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Hi, gentlemen! Can you answer the question: what guns did the E-class submarines operated with the Russian Navy have and when had they received their guns?

Yes Darren - `is a puzzlement' !! I know that Taffy Evens colaborated much with Gus Britton Curator of the RNSM at the time & Gus was much `Pedantic' on such. Such a shame that Brian Head has `crossed the bar' or he would no doubt to be able to confirm `which'. The officers as shown in the book does look much like Horton - but surely such a mistake would have been picked up by Gus / Brian by this time. Sadsac

[quote=BALTICSUBS;10054361]Hi Clive, in Post #19 of this Thread you Posted a Photo of Laurence & Horton, and the discussion came up that i did not think that was Horton. In the book Beneath the Waves by A.S. Evans Page 65 it has this same photo, and they list this as Laurence & his friend Lt A.G. Jameson, washed overboard from D2 in 1914. What do you think?[/quote] Totally agree with you Darren. This means that Charles Mcain, author of "An Hounourable German", has the photo incorectly captioned on his website [URL="http://blog.charlesmccain.com/2010/11/nemesis-admiral-sir-max-horton-and.html"]HERE[/URL], and therefore maybe in his book. Also, but no real surprise, Wiki makes the same mistake [URL="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=max+horton+laurence&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMax_Kennedy_Horton&ei=KVO2UOviMabX0QXgxYDAAQ&usg=AFQjCNFijGioQpPW050yFPPgX5Bac8tTfg"]HERE[/URL] I will put a note in post #19. :)

Hi Steve, Thought I would answer your private email on the forum to get you back on here. To answer your question re the copy of the Crest of Submarine E1 you pointed out to me for sale, no they were not located in or on the Conning Tower. It was very difficult to pinpoint where the Crest was Located on the Chatham built E Class boats, but think I have nailed it. There are very few internal photos taken inside the Chatham boats, and engine room shots are normally taken looking aft, but I found one in an original Glass Neg from my collection which is taken in the Engine Room of E12 looking forward. And there is the Crest you speak of, hope this helps, so answer is, located on the Engine Room Bulkhead. But the E1 Crest you speak of, I can only assume it is a copy from what Michael Wilson is talking about BELOW. I have read the salvage documents on E1 & her colleges, the British were outraged at this saying it was their property, the Fins said oh well, they are a navigation hazard so would you like the bill, the British stopped complaining from this point. Divers tell me only a scattering of small bits and pieces remain now. [B][I]BALTIC ASSIGNENT Page 211, by Michael Wilson. There was to be a happier postscript •to the story. Nearly forty years later the submarine HMS Amphian visited Helsinki to mark the centenary of the bombardment of Sveaborg in 1855 by a British Fleet, in which a previous ship of the name suffered the only British casualty. To mark the occasion the Finnish Navy presented to the submarine the name plate of the E1, whose salvage from the sea bottom in the approaches to Helsinki had just been completed.[/I][/B]
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Thanks for the reply Balts, and for the great pictures, much appreciated, and for free too. Steven.

A couple from my Personal Collection. E12, the logs of HMS Alecto tell the story how late in January 1915 E12 & E11 both arrived & stayed in Great Yarmouth for a few days. Seems Photographer Walter Kelf from Great Yarmouth thought it would be a good idea to offer the crew a chance of a crew photo. Seems Lt. Cdr Bruce & E12's Crew obliged, but the sneaky bugger thought he could get away with pulling a stunt on historians, rather than getting Nasmith to switch E11 & E12 around he got E11's crew to form up on E12 and cover the pennant number. You can often see the E11 photo around on websites like Sea Your History, I have a good digital Copy from the Royal Navy Submarine Museum and you can clearly see the crew hiding the number but you can make out a 2 behind them for 92. So that photo you see of Nasmith on E11, it is E12. The second shot is from a series of Original Glass Negatives I have, (Not Magic Lantern Slides), taken by a Chap named Pollard from the Air Service serving over the Dardanelles, seems the E12 crew took a liking to him and he was allowed to take many photos of her & E21. I had to reduce the original scan from 17MB to fit on here, so it has lost a bit of clarity:(
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More superb shots Darren. I note with interest the "crest"; was this common on these boats? [COLOR=white].[/COLOR] [COLOR=white].[/COLOR]
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Hi Clive, these crests were common on the Chatham boats, when E1 was raised in the 1950's this crest for her was presented to a visiting British Submarine in Helsinki, it is stated anyway at the end of the book Baltic Assignment, and I can see someone on eBay is selling a one off Aluminium Casting of it for 250 pounds. It must be true as where else would they get a mould as the one for sale looks the same as E12's.

Darren, I have had this photograph for a long time and have not been able to identify it. Having looked at your recent post, I wonder whether this is also the engine room of an E-Class boat. [COLOR=white].[/COLOR] [COLOR=white].[/COLOR]
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Whatever class boat it is a fine photo Clive. Let's hope Darren can narrow it down a bit. :)

For those interested in the technical aspects of the E Class have a look at these plans which reside on the Royal Australian Navy's Ship Histories page. Of course these refer to the AE Class but they are similar to the very early "E"s The original page is; [url]http://www.navy.gov.au/hmas-ae1[/url] I have included direct links to the plans on the page. [url]http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default/files/Submarines_AE_Starbd_General_Retouched.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default/files/Submarines_AE_Starbd_Elevation_Retouched.jpg[/url] For those with fast connections try these links to some very large scans. They are 40.8 Mb and 15.3 Mb respectively. [url]http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default/files/Submarines_AE_Starbd_General_Retouched_ORIG.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default/files/Submarines_AE_Starbd_Elevation_Retouched_ORIG.jpg[/url]

Will check it out Clive, but I am sure I have seen this one before as a later WW2 era S or T Class.

[QUOTE=BALTICSUBS;10081614]Hi Clive, these crests were common on the Chatham boats, when E1 was raised in the 1950's this crest for her was presented to a visiting British Submarine in Helsinki, it is stated anyway at the end of the book Baltic Assignment, and I can see someone on eBay is selling a one off Aluminium Casting of it for 250 pounds. It must be true as where else would they get a mould as the one for sale looks the same as E12's.[/QUOTE] The NMM at Greenwich has a very large number of crests stored away - not only the large tompion size (used on Battleships etc) but also the smaller size used on ships boate. They also have some foreign ones as well - I've seen one for the Sultan Osman 1 (later HMS Agincourt) in their store. Steve

[quote=BALTICSUBS;10081665]Will check it out Clive, but I am sure I have seen this one before as a later WW2 era S or T Class.[/quote] Hi Darren, thanks. Since found out it is an S-Class as you suggest.

The article is in dutch, hopefully your browser has translation ability which will give an idea. [URL]http://www.noordhollandsdagblad.nl/stadstreek/denhelder/article24570173.ece/Duikboot-WO1-gevonden-bij-Texel?lref=vpll[/URL] Essentially a sonar image appears to show a submarine. The only one known to have been lost there is E36 (after a collision with a sister submarine) and the length matches. In only about 25ft of water too. Poor sods

I got the impression it was in 2.5m of water Rupert???? jainso31 [url]http://www.noordhollandsdagblad.nl/stadstreek/denhelder/article24570173.ece/Duikboot-WO1-gevonden-bij-Texel?lref=vpll[/url]

[QUOTE=jainso31;10090592]I got the impression it was in 2.5m of water Rupert???? jainso31 [/QUOTE] Obviously I was allowing for tide above chart datum, and definitely not converting 2.5m to 25ft. I wouldn't do that now would I? :o

Of course not-I thought perhaps a typo-my apologies. jainso31

[QUOTE=jainso31;10090647]Of course not-I thought perhaps a typo-my apologies. jainso31[/QUOTE] I did include a shamefaced smilie Its me who should apologise. Brain fart on my [art I'm afrid

Hi, I stumbled across this as i'm trying to find more information about HMS E-17. We have a box believed to have been on the submarine, the owner was suposedly one of the crew.. Where can I find a list of the crew to confirm this information??

Hello Mysty. All depends of course of what DATE you require for the names of crew. Do you want crew when the boat was sunk ?? Otherwise could have been many crew. Can you explain `the box' ?? Sadsac

E-14: [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/9334446/First-World-War-British-submarine-found-94-years-after-being-abandoned.html[/url] 94 years must be a journalistic error! I think that there might have been something about this find published earlier.

[QUOTE=patroclus;10134593]E-14: [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/9334446/First-World-War-British-submarine-found-94-years-after-being-abandoned.html[/url] 94 years must be a journalistic error! I think that there might have been something about this find published earlier.[/QUOTE] Well, considering this is a "reprint", and the original article was written 3 years ago... [QUOTE] By David Blair 5:41PM BST 15 Jun 2012[/QUOTE] January 1918 > June 2012 = 94 years 5 months. I think they "reprinted" it because of the approaching 100 year anniversary of her entering the Sea of Marmara on April 27 1915.

[QUOTE=BlackBat242;10134597]Well, considering this is a "reprint", and the original article was written 3 years ago... January 1918 > June 2012 = 94 years 5 months. I think they "reprinted" it because of the approaching 100 year anniversary of her entering the Sea of Marmara on April 27 1915.[/QUOTE] Thanks BB. My memory is evidently better than my eyesight.

I believe my maternal grandfather was on this boat & J7 + on an earlier boats. The photo showed Gramp in uniform on secondment to Egyptian customs service around 1930 have other photos of him there as well, service No 272524
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Hello black cat and welcome. I have rotated your attachments and deleted the post that you were having problems with. Many thanks for sharing the photos. Jim

Thank you, I believe he started in the Holland boats, but he never talked about his time my Mother said he also spent time in the West Indies doing radio trials, & I have a photo of him with his arm round the old king of Egypt & Faroke as a baby. This photo was when he was attached to ( Administration des guard-cotes et Pecheries Egypt 1931 Peter[ATTACH]153557[/ATTACH]
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Hello Black Cat. Do you have your GFathers FULL Service Record ?? Find here his Submarine Service Record. As you can see it shows no service in any E.Boat. Do not wish me to `say-me-nay', but ?? ROGERS TENNYSON GWYNNE ERA 2 FT C/ 272524 NE RN NE 120121 D7 MAIDSTONE G1 151023 DOLPHIN G2 160116 DOLPHIN G2 160224 TITANIA HOSP 1903 DOLPHIN DISCHARGED TO G.S. MEDICALLY UNFIT FOR S/M SERVICE 16/8/19 ADM 188 / 438 P.o.B ; Hundleton Pembroke So, quite what service he had in boats 1916 to 1919, perhaps his Full Record will show. It may well be that as he was ERA he served DOLPHIN on many, but no specific boat. Record may be obtained `online' at PRO.NA at Kew for £3.50 or 25p in the Archive itself. PRO number ADM 188 / 438. Best o Luck. Let us know how you get on. Sadsac

His record can be downloaded from the National Archives on [URL="http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6745003"]this link[/URL] However, he will also have a follow-on record from when this record was transferred to card c1928 Jim

for Black Cat Not much to add to Dennis's reply above but your grandfather's submarine service appears to cover from 22nd January 1912 to 16th August 1919 and he appears to have been attached to the Depot Ships HMS THAMES, HMS BONAVENTURE, then HMS DOLPHIN followed by HMS MAIDSTONE, HMS DOLPHIN (again), HMS TITANIA 'for Submarine G2' (20th Apr 1916 to 31st Mar 1919). Following a request from Commodore Submarine in 1912 Submarine Flotilla Commanders reported the names of personnel serving in Submarines and one of the replies apparently lists ERA Tennyson Gwynne Rogers (O/N 272524) as attached to HMS BONAVENTURE 'training in Submarine C12 on 28th June 1912'. It is possible that he served in another C class Submarine once trained. He was awarded the Distinguish Service Medal (London Gazette 2nd Nov 1917 ‘in recognition of services in Submarines in enemy waters’ You might find a bit more information on submarines served in from the Submarine Museum - especially if there is a Record Card for your grandfather in their files. Frozen North

I don't know of it will be of any interest but as a boy an elderly neighbour, who had been a stoker in early subs, told me that he and his colleagues were always worried when on the J class as the J painted on the conning tower could look like a U from some angles. His boat had been fired on often when on the surface having been mistaken for a U boat! He served on J7.

J6 suffered most from that particular error.

Yes Black Bat. Apparently someone hung a towel over the conning-tower making the J into a U. Sunk in error by HMS Cymric a `Q' ship. Sadsac

Thank you for your help, will try submarine museum & purchase records

Black Cat. Perhaps I did not make it quite plain - the FULL records are to be obtained from The National Archives (NA) at Kew, London - NOT the Submarine Museum. Sadsac

dennis, you did make it clear thanks, have got them from Kew but still trying to decipher writing faint & I have never been good at reading others handwriting either. BC

[quote=black cat;10140057]dennis, you did make it clear thanks, have got them from Kew but still trying to decipher writing faint & I have never been good at reading others handwriting either. BC[/quote] Post them in the Service Records section and we will endeavour to explain their contents to you. Jim

Thanks again The submarine museum have come up with this. According to a reference work The Distinguished Service Medal 1914-19120 by W H Fevyer: ERA 2nd Class Tennyson Gwynne Rogers was awarded the Distinguished Service Medal (DSM) London Gazette dated 2.11.1917. Is there any way to discover further information other than (Submarines in enemy waters) The museum holds limited amounts of personnel information in the form of Movement Record Index Cards. These cards were instituted around 1918 and only some retrospective information was added. The hospital bit fits in with what my mother told me that her father came home weighing 6\7 stone rather than 13+ that I remember, & in a very poor state medically, In the case of TG Rogers the card shows that he joined the RN Submarine Service 21.1.1912 He served on the submarine HMS D7 (attached to HMS Maidstone no date) Submarine HMS G1 23.10.1915, then submarine HMS G2 24.2.1916. He was hospitalised in March 1919 and discharged to General Service (surface fleet) medically unfit for submarine service on 16.8.1919.

[QUOTE=rumrat;145339]I don't know if any of you guys are interested in these pictures of engines for the E & K Class Submarines made on tyneside by Wallsend Slipway & Engineering works.Incidently these pictures were found in a skip along with dozens of others. Regards Dave[/QUOTE] Dave/Rumrat, Amongst those 'dozens of others' that fell out of that skip, you wouldn't happen to have any other photos which relate to E Class main machinery. I am particularly interested in detailed photos from the engine flywheel housing aft along the shaftline, in particular the diesel engine/main motor clutch, the main motors and their bearings (I am trying to determine if they were forced lube or splash lube bearings for the main motors), the main motor clutch, as well as the plummer blocks and the thrust blocks, right to the stern seals. Any assistance would be much appreciated. Regards Gus :)




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