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RN Submarines: K-Class - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 3)

RN Submarines: K-Class (Page 3)

Posts 101 to 150

No luck on BOUNDS I am afraid Nigel - but I must have had his card at one so as to be able to Post it in this Thread. Can only think that I left it at RNSM sometime ?? Any others `of interest' ????

Nigel, the Collins chap you noted K6, he is listed in K6 log 29/3/1917 as joining her at Scapa Flow from HMS Fearless.

Thanks Dennis, shame about Bounds , but thats the way of things. It's great that cards have survived, I well recall going through the entire lot at the museum back in the 80's. They were just starting on transferring the info to computer then. I was told at the time that the cards had already been well weeded, mainly by the men themselves in later years. Which may explain why the cards to casualties seem to have a better chance of actally being there. When I went through the cards, I was looking to men from 3 particular boats , and the results were very patchy, I think one boat yielded just 2 or 3 cards. Still, owt is better than nowt , as they say. I'll keep my eyes peeled for more K boat stuff to post here. Cheers, Nigel

[QUOTE=BALTICSUBS;10000099]Nigel, the Collins chap you noted K6, he is listed in K6 log 29/3/1917 as joining her at Scapa Flow from HMS Fearless.[/QUOTE] Thanks Baltic, that is a great snippet of info. Collins's card makes no mention of K6 , but his Adm188 S/R does.... This proves that the 188 has it right, clears any doubt. Brilliant! Cheers, Nigel

All good Nigel, thanks for sharing your info, here you can have the confirmation, this is the K6 log extract for your man.
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Thanks Baltic, that's absolutely brilliant. I assume, that it was mostly just "odd" men who were noted in a such a way. a replacement for a man sick , or posted away? Whatever the reasoning , it sure is interesting. Out of interest, does anyone have a key way of searching for Sub logs in the PRO online catalogue? I've not searched of late, but I've historically had problems getting results on searches for boats logs...specifying ADM53 or not. Anybody any hints? Many thanks again Cheers, Nigel

Nigel, no problem re ADM 53 LOGS of boats / ships. I have at home here ALL the listings as they are in PRO ADM Log file. Some years ago PRO had a `clear-out' and I fortunately was able to acquire one of the two copies of the files that they `disposed-of'. Also have ADM 173 list of files that relate to Submarines. Illustration here ; HMS/m D3 ; 28 Log Books ADM 53 / 1008 for 221014 to 311214 ADM 53 / 1046 for 010218 to 280218 Some time I could make up a list & post it on the Forum. May have done so in the past, but fearfull of be `boring' !!

Hi Nigel, i have a full & comprehensive list of WW1 S/M logs in excell spread sheets, i have copied all & only a couple of late H Class to go. But there are so many gaps in logs, so i have also copied most depot ships, and to fill in other gaps most destroyers assigned with submarines. The problems with logs is they are in the hands of the author, some are full of details, some not so. Some list details only about the boat, not that many list details on the men. But some list special events re the men, especially with issues on warrants, or deaths. Only one boat had the foresight to write down her commisioning crew in 1915, & some of these men were RNR Able Seaman which was not the norm. But the main thing with logs is you can see when a boat arrived from say Barrow to Harwich, then you see a whole batch of men's papers change on that day, and these men do not have a Submarine listed on their papers, so i'm in the slow process of matching men to boats, & it is not easy.

[QUOTE=Dreadnought;71234][B][SIZE=3]Submarine K5[/SIZE][/B] [I]Two postcards from my personal collection, and a photograph that shows K5 in dry dock. Does anybody recognise this dry dock ... is it Chatham? K5 had a refit there in 1920, having not long before had another diving mishap, burying her bows in the muddy bottom of the Firth of Forth.[/I][/QUOTE] Clive, the dock is almost certainly No.2 Dry Dock in Chatham. The adjacent vessel on the left hand side of the picture seems to be in the flooded No 3 Dry Dock next to it. H.M.S. Cavalier now sits permenantly in this No 2 dock, and H.M. Submarine Ocelot in the one on the North side of it, i.e. No 3 dry dock. The buildings in front of the dock would be the old Smithery Shops. No 2 dry dock would be the only one to fit a K class in easily, due to the unusually long length.

Lordy, I'm eating my own words now...hitting sub logs fine in the PRO Catalogue I'm sure I recall having problems locating them with my searches. I know they have recently upgraded the Cat software wise, but I'll bet it was a good slice of operator error. :D There are some big holes in the sub logs, seems far worse than surface ships. It makes you wonder why so. Anyhow, for those who are not aware , or have not seen it..here is the memorial to K 4. [url]http://www.stmargaretpattens.org/[/url] Just click on "memorials" on the left side menu and its the first one down on the new page. Very impressive. Cheers, Nigel

Nigel, my posting of 110 re ADM Files for D3 & ALL submarines should read ADM 173 NOT ADM 53 as posted. ADM 53 is for Skimmer ships !!! Apologies to `Skimmer' - Surface dwellers !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=Rob Hoole;1725849][I][COLOR="Blue"]Not that many years ago, I used to listen to a friend's grandfather, Walter Valet, speak of his experiences as a stoker in K-boats and other submarines during the Great War and afterwards. [/COLOR][/I] Rob, I knew Walter Valet very well, as many hundreds of St Helens Sea Cadets would do, in the 50's (and 60's.) He used to give Seamanship lessons, in between his great renditions of his submarine exploits; and one could listen to him for hours! A great man, and he would always stop in the street for a chat, no matter what the weather. Even years after I had joined the Navy, if we met he would instantly recognise me. Despite his long years, his brain was as sharp as a needle. Great memories of him.

Hello Andy, Silly me for thinking Walter Valet was a stoker but it was the connection with the K-boat's peculiar propulsion that threw me. My wife and I still go on holiday with his grandson Wal and Wal's wife Maggie and visit them regularly in St Helens; it's the only time I ever go to watch Rugby League matches. :) I will pass on your fine tribute.

I've been fascinated reading this thread because I have been trying to find out more about the career of my grandfather, Aldridge Evelegh, who was an engineer officer on K12 - I'm not quite sure when. He never spoke about his time on submarines and I now wish I'd asked him properly. He gave me a copy of Don Everitt's book to read when I was 9, but that was it. Any information you have, I'd be ever so grateful for. David

Hi David, your man was a long time in Submarines & got the OBE i see, as an Engineer Lt he was Appointed to HMS Forth & Submarines 18th of October 1912. He was standing by K Class K11 when being built, & with her until May 1917. He would have given you the book on K Class as his papers show he was in K12 during the Battle of May Island. He was in China with the L Class 1921-24, & was even in Submarine X1 in the later 1920's. He was still in S/m's up to 1935. I can see he also served in WW2, do you have the date of his passing?

Thank you so much. That's very useful to know. I know so little about his service record, certainly that early. He ended his career as an Engineer Captain attached to the Reserve Fleet after WWII and died in 1974 - I can dig out the exact date if that would be useful.

[B]Francis Drake Algar - J11842[/B] Francis Algar was born in Slaidburn, Clitheroe Yorkshire on 11 Jan 1895. He was one of three sons (Cecil, Norman and Francis) and three daughters (Sally, Constance and Winnie) of William James and Jemina Algar. William Algar was a teacher and headmaster of the Church of England Schools at Slaidburn and later Gawber near Barnsley. Francis Algar was educated in the Training Ship Warspite and joined the Royal Navy at HMS Ganges as a Boy 2nd Class on 13 Apr 1911. At the time he joined the Navy his parents were living at The School House, Lockington Beverley. He was rated Boy 1st Class on 25 Nov 1911. He joined the 16,500 ton battleship HMS Agamemnon on 2 Dec 1911 and remained in that ship until 26 Mar 1912 when he was drafted ashore to HMS Victory before joining the Portsmouth 13,550 ton cruiser HMS Black Prince on 1 May 1912. His Commanding Officer in HMS Black Prince from 10 Apr 1913 was Captain Frederick D Gilpin-Brown. He was rated to Ordinary Seaman on 11 Jan 1913 and to Able Seaman on 7 Jun 1914 and drafted to HMS Vernon for torpedo training on 7 Jun 1914 and then to HMS Attentive for HMS Tartar (Lt in Command Herbert RL Edwards) to date 30 July 1914. He returned to HMS Victory on 20 Jan 1915 until 3 Aug 1915. On 10 Aug 1915 he was drafted to the 28,000 ton HMS Canada (Captain William CM Nicholson). HMS Canada joined the Grand Fleet at Scapa Flow on 15 Oct 1915 and was at the rear of the 3rd Division of the Battle Fleet at the ‘Battle of Jutland’ on 31 May/1 Jun 1916. Francis Algar was rated Leading Seaman on 1 Feb 1917. On leaving HMS Canada he was drafted to HMS Dolphin for Submarine Training on 29 Aug 1917 and then to the Submarine Depot Ship HMS Ambrose on 28 Sept 1918. A draft to HMS Venerable ‘submarines for L7’ followed on 6 Oct 1918. L7 was transferred to HMS Ambrose (Commander Cecil Ponsonby Talbot DSO) on 25 Oct 1918. On leaving L7 he was drafted to HMS Forth for submarine E54 on 25 Jun 1919 and then to HMS Forth as spare crew on 12 Nov 1919. He was drafted ashore to HMS Dolphin on 1 Nov 1919 and then to HMS Inconstant for submarine K11 on 18 June 1920. Francis Algar was rated Petty Officer on 25 Nov 1920 and remained in K11 until 8 Mar 1921 when he was drafted to K2 of the same flotilla. He was next drafted to HMS Crescent for submarines (19 Apr 1921) and back to HMS Dolphin on 13 July 1921. He was married to Ivy Flora Algar (nee Bennett) at St James Church, Milton, Portsea on 19 Apr 1922. For his WW1 service he was paid his Prize Bounty for the Battle of Jutland – in May 1923 having already been paid his War Gratuity, his share of the Naval Prize Fund and later a Supplementary Share of the Naval Prize Fund. He then joined HMS Cyclops for submarine K12 on 1 Apr 1924. After returning to HMS Dolphin on 13 Nov 1925 Francis Algar left submarines with a draft to HMS Vernon on 3 Jan 1926. His next draft was to HMS Excellent on 4 Dec 1926 and he then served in the destroyer HMS Restless (Lt Cmdr. NAG Ohlenschlager DSO) which was tender to HMS Excellent. Algar was again drafted to HMS Victory on 23 Nov 1928 ‘awaiting draft’ and was then sent to the cruiser HMS London in the Med on 5 Feb 1929. After just over two years in HMS London he was drafted to HMS Vernon on 17 Jun 1931 and was further drafted to the attached destroyer HMS Vanoc on 27 Nov 1931 and on 30 Aug 1933 he was transferred to HMS Ambuscade. Francis Algar was advanced to Chief Petty Officer (TGM) on 19 Mar 1934 and on 10 Jan 1935 was released to Pension. On retiring from the RN he worked firstly for the local council in Portsmouth then for the Post Office as a postman. He was recalled for further service during WW2 and joined HMS Victory on 25 Mar 1940 before returning to HMS Vernon on 30 May 1940. He was drafted to the training base HMS Lochinvar between 16 Sept and 10 Nov 1944 before returning to HMS Vernon where he served for the remainder of the war. He then lived at 2 Trevis Road, Milton, Southsea. Francis Algar retired from the Navy for a second time on 27 Aug 1945. After WW2 he returned to his job of postman. He died on 20 May 1961 after being taken ill. He died on his way to Portsmouth Royal Hospital, Commercial Road. The cause of death was given as Coronary Thrombosis and Essential Hypertension. Information provide to Barrie Downer by his son Colin Algar.

Hello Peter, following on from your wonderful posting of the RN Career of CPO Algar, find here his Submarine Service Record ; ALGAR FRANCIS DRAKE PO LTO P/J 11842 NE RN 110195 010917 TC 170901 DOLPHIN ADDL 171002 TITANIA ADDL 180902 DOLPHIN L7 180927 AMBROSE VIA COLLIN L7 181026 AMBROSE LENT VENERABLE E54 190626 FORTH VICE PACE HE CSE 190802 DOLPHIN LENT VICTORY ADDL 191112 DOLPHIN TGM 191213 VERNON LENT FAILED ADDL 200306 DOLPHIN 200618 K11 200618 INCONSTANT K2 210308 INCONSTANT K S/M 210418 CRESCENT ADDL 210713 DOLPHIN K12 240416 CONQUERER SC 250319 CONQUERER K12 250324 CONQUERER ADDL 251118 DOLPHIN DISCHARGED TO VERNON 030126 DATE VOL ; 060217 SENIOR IN RATING 010217 LS 251120 PO C S EXPIRES 110135 ADM 188 / 670 P.o.B ; CLITHEROE YORKS Sadsac

It was noted in June 1917 that he had applied for the submarine service. He was recommended by captain Chatfield whilst serving on HMS Lion 1916-1917. Needless to say, he did not find his vocation under the seas. It was the K class he could have served on, amongst others. He, was no less than midshipman Louis Mountbatten.

I went to school in the Sydney suburb suburb of Carlingford where there is a prominent memorial to the loss of the K 13. The link below gives a very concise precis of the K class as well as the the link between Australia and the submarine. A photo of the memorial is included I can remember that the school cadet corps provided the guard for the annual memorial service which was always held with a representative from the RAN htp//members.optusnet.com.au/ordu_4k13submarinememorial.htm

[QUOTE=culverin;10016428]It was noted in June 1917 that he had applied for the submarine service. He was recommended by captain Chatfield whilst serving on HMS Lion 1916-1917. Needless to say, he did not find his vocation under the seas. It was the K class he could have served on, amongst others. He, was no less than midshipman Louis Mountbatten.[/QUOTE] Mountbatten did serve in the K Class, did a stint in them for a few weeks and left a few days before the Battle of May Island. His boat was the K6.

Reference Mountbatten serving in Submarines I recently published the following in 'In Depth No 37' (the Submariners Association Newsletter) in response to a query as to why Mountbatten, in later years, wore Submarine 'Dolphins' 'Having just been reading 'Mountbatten' by Phillip Ziegler I see in Chapter 3 - Junior Officer - pages 44 & 45 that - whilst appointed to HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH as a Midshipman during WWI Mountbatten spent two months in Submarine K6 as part of his Midshipman’s training. At the end of this time the 3rd Hand of K6 - Commissioned Gunner Ernest Frary - reported that 'although at first unimpressed by this tall thin figure who lolled about eating chocolates' that 'at the end of the two months he realised that the newcomer had acquired a full working knowledge of the working of a ‘K’ Boat' and 'wrote a marvellous essay on the subject'. I expect his Essay was in his Midshipman’s Journal and may well be in the Mountbatten papers. Ernest Frary's reminiscences are in the Broadlands Archives at N.100 Apparently Mountbatten then expressed a wish to serve in Submarines but was then sent to a small ship - 'P31' - before returning to HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH. It seems he may have been well qualified to wear Dolphins although his time in boats was quite short.' Hope this helps!

Never mind about being a freak sub, I was just watching a uTube show about Nautilus the first nuclear sub, and I suppose she was a freak at the time too. I did find this picture of a K boat, and wanted to show it. cheers.
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[QUOTE=Dreadnought;131145][B]NOTE:[/B] Due to the fact there the K-Class submarine evokes much interest, I have merged all the existing descriptive threads/posts to this newly titled thread. This includes the recent posts regarding the "swan bows" in the photo gallery thread. The original photographs of K-boats in the photo gallery thread however, remain: [FONT=Verdana][URL]http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1423[/URL][/FONT] Those with an interest in the ensuing M-Class Submarines can read about them in this thread: [URL]http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6308[/URL][/QUOTE] Note that the above link to the M-class thread is invalid. This link is correct: [URL="http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8179&highlight=M-class+submarines"]http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8179&highlight=M-class+submarines[/URL]

Thanks yet again Jon for your help in keeping our links up to date and valid. :)

I have been ferreting through primary source material at Kew relating to the salvage of HM/S/M K13 I have the provisional list of survivors from the file but I do not trust it. Does anyone out there have a definitive list ? Admiralty told one poor lady that her husband was among the rescued. Turned out a few days later that he wasn't. You will understand my caution...

Probably the best person to speak to is a chap called David Piggott who has made a special study of K13 for the West of Scotland Branch of the Submariners Association who commemorate the K13 every year on the Sunday closest to the accident date. David Piggott is an Honorary Member of that Branch and you should be able to contact him via the West of Scotland Branch Secretary - see the Submariners Association Website. By my count the survivors included the Commanding Officer, 2 Lieutenants, 1 CPO, 3 POs, 3 Leading Seamen, 11 Able Seamen, 1 Signalman, 1 leading Telegraphist, 1 Boy Telegraphist, 2 Chief ERAs, 1 ERA, 1 Stoker Petty officer and 2 Stokers. I do have names and Official Numbers for the survivors listed above. There were also 17 Civilian survivors out of the 24 Civilians on board at the time

Thanks for your prompt response. I am puzzled though. My researches indicate that the only commissioned officers appointed to [I]K13 [/I]for the acceptance trials were Lane, Singer and of course Herbert. Rideal was on a 'makee learn' from [I]K14[/I] along with poor Goodhart. I realised that CERA Smith was lost with the boat but was unaware there was another CERA onboard. Oscar Moth was acting coxswain and according to his record card he was not rated CPO until 1920. This is my survivor list for K13. Godfrey Herbert DSO, Lt. Cdr Akers, H. AB Atkinson, R. L/Seaman Baker, G. Stoker Byrnes, F. AB Denne, A. ERA 2nd class Edmondson, G. AB Freestone, C. L/Tel. Guthrie, T. AB Hudd, R. L/Seaman Kirk, A, AB Knight, A. AB Lewis, O. ERA Mackrell,E. AB Moth, R. PO Nicholls, R. PO O’Regan, J. AB Osborne, C. L/Seaman PO N Pratt Riley, A. Signalman Singer, P. Lt. Smith, C Stoker PO Smith, E. Stoker Stevens, E. AB Swift, J. Boy Tel. Travers, A. L/Seaman Wattley, R. AB White, S, PO Young, R. AB

I know that the above list i[B]s inaccurate[/B] because two of the seamen listed (and I don't know who they were) were actually drafted to K14. For some weird reason Blockhouse could not supply Admiralty with a list of accurate names immediately after the accident and the authorities were initially forced to fall back on Govan billeting lists - hence the confusion between seamen who were actually on K13 and those who were allocated to K14. The error is admitted in papers attached to the Inquiry findings but they do not go on correct the original list. Possibly PO N Pratt is the same Bosun Pratt who died.

There was a large number of Civilian staff (Admiralty and Shipyard employees etc.) on board at the time of the accident - seven of whom died in the accident. The Civilian dead from the accident are commemorated on a Memorial Drinking Fountain erected by the Fairfield Ship Building Company in Elder Park – across the road from the Fairfield Ship Building Yard (now BAE Systems Ltd) on the south bank of the Clyde. The Next of Kin and burial details for the Civilian Staff who died in the accident are as listed below: Frederick Stephen Hole Frederick Hole was fifty four years old and he was an Assistant Admiralty Overseer in the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors. His Next of Kin was his wife - Minnie Hole of 23, Wesley Avenue, Peverell, Plymouth. Frederick Hole left eight children. He is buried in the Garelochhead Cemetery. John P Steel John Steel, who was an Engine Department Overseer in the Fairfield Yard made an escape attempt from the flooded after ends of the submarine with Engineer Lieutenant Arthur Lane. Both men apparently reached the surface but were washed away by the tide and drowned. John Steel’s body was never recovered. No Next of Kin information is currently available on John Steel. William Chalmers Smith William Smith who was an Engine Department Overseer in the Fairfield Yard was thirty one years old and he lived at 20, Hayburn Street, Partick, Glasgow. He is buried in the Garelochhead Cemetery. Frank Thomas Neate Frank Neate was thirty five years old and lived at 277, Barnsole Rd., Gillingham, Kent. He was a Foreman Electrician in the Fairfield Yard. He is buried in the Garelochhead Cemetery. William John Lewis William Lewis was a member of the Engine Department in the Fairfield Yard. No Next of Kin or other family detail is available for William Lewis. He is buried in the Garelochhead Cemetery. William Alfred Strachan William Strachan was born in Peterhead in Aberdeenshire on 22nd January 1889 and he was a member of the Engine Department in the Fairfield Yard. He was twenty eight years old when he died. He was the son of William Buchan Grey Strachan and Jane Anne Strachan (nee Sangster) of 31, King Street, Peterhead, Aberdeenshire. He was engaged to be married at the time of his death. He is buried in the Garelochhead Cemetery. James Kirk James Kirk was thirty years old and he was a member of the Engine Department in Fairfields yard. He had a Next of Kin address of Parkhead Villa, Markinch, Fife. He is buried in the Garelochhead Cemetery. The following Civilian workers were on board at the time of the accident and survived the accident: Edward Hepworth was an Admiralty Overseer (Boilers). William Hancock was an Admiralty Overseer and he came from Pembrokeshire. Robert Lake was an employee of Brotherhoods Ltd of Peterborough in Northamptonshire. Frederick Searle was an Assistant Constructor 1st Class in the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors and was employed as an Admiralty Ship Overseer. In January 1919 he was listed as the Deputy Warship Production Superintendent, Clyde. Frederick C Cocks was a Temporary Assistant Constructor in the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors and, in January 1919 was based in London. Donald Renfrew was an employee of Messrs. Kelvin, Bottomley & Baird. Sidney Black was an employee of Messrs. Kelvin, Bottomley & Baird. William Williams was a Sub Manager of Brown Brothers (Boilers). Captain Joseph Duncan was a Clyde Pilot. Professor Percy Hillhouse, DSc was born in Glasgow on 3rd April 1869. Percy Hillhouse studied Naval Architecture at Glasgow University and graduated BSc in 1888. He worked as a draughtsman at the A J Inglis Ltd. Shipyard at Pointhouse (at the confluence of the River Kelvin with the River Clyde) and Clydebank Shipyard before becoming Professor of Naval Architecture at Tokyo Imperial University from 1898 to 1902. He returned to Glasgow as Naval Architect to the Fairfield Shipbuilding & Engineering Co. Ltd in Glasgow in 1902 and he held that post until 1937. From 1921 until 1942 he was the John Elder Professor of Naval Architecture and Ocean Engineering at the University of Glasgow. Percy Hillhouse was a Vice-President of the Institution of Naval Architects and President of the Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders in Scotland from 1935 to 1937. In 1934 he made an amateur film, Scenes from the Clyde. Percy Hillhouse died on 28th September 1942 at the age of seventy three. Edward Skinner was an employee of the Fairfield Yard and he worked in the Electrical Department. William MacLean was an employee of the Fairfield Yard. Donald Hood was an employee of the Fairfield Yard. Frank Bullen was an employee of the Fairfield Yard. John Green was employed by Fairfields Yard and he was the Head Foreman (Mechanical). Henry Kerr was an employee of the Fairfield Yard. William Struthers was an employee of the Fairfield Yard. Edward Powney was an employee of Chadburns of Liverpool – Marine Equipment Suppliers. If not previously mentioned in this thread the West of Scotland Branch Annual K13 Memorial weekend now includes a Parade and wreath laying at the Elder Park Memorial on the Saturday, a Church Service in the Base Church at Faslane on the Sunday Morning followed a parade and wreath laying in the Garelochhead Cemetery. Having attended on several occasions these are very moving ceremonies. Until her death few years ago the Faslane ceremonies were attended by the lady who observed the some of the incident and the attempted escape by Lane and Steel - she was a chambermaid at the Shandon Hydropathic Hotel which overlooked the site of the sinking. Her story was not initially believed but was later proved correct

Thanks for your information. And upon your advice I have made contact with the West of Scotland Branch of the Submariners Association. Searle is of interest because he took over command when Herbert accidentally escaped. Names of civilians - casualties and survivors are well established - not least because several survivors wrote post-war accounts of their experiences on K13. Everitt and Keble-Chatterton both based their coverage on the Hillhouse account. Everitt also used Hillhouse's explanatory drawings (without credit). It is also revealing to contrast what Herbert had to say in 1934 with his interview with Everitt in 1959. My focus is upon any list of K13 [I]crew[/I] survivors (and the source reference/s if available) so I can cross-reference it with the nominal list above and sieve out who should not be in it. Service cards in Kew frustratingly do not provide an answer in this instance.

Reference Survivors from K13 - ERA Albert Denne O/N M4470 was drafted to Dolphin on 27th Dec 1916 and was then a survivor from K13 although his Service Certificate from the National Archives doesn't list a K13 draft for him. He was then drafted to K14 Crew on 20 May 1917 - suggest he may have been drafted to Dolphin 'for K13' originally and, after the accident (and a bit of survivors leave) drafted to K14.

Thanks for that. Nice little piece of research.

HMS Submarine K 4. An underwater war grave containing the victims of one of the worst British naval disasters of the first world war has been surveyed for the first time so it can be preserved in the middle of a windfarm. The two K Class submarines were destroyed on 31 January 1918 during the so-called battle of the Isle of May, in which 270 lives were lost. The two submarines were sunk and three more damaged along with a surface cruiser. But no enemy ships were involved in the sinkings, 20 miles off Fife Ness on Scotland's east coast. The deaths were all caused by a series of night-time collisions within the British fleet. So embarrassing was the incident that even though one officer was court-martialed, the facts were not generally admitted for more than 60 years, until after the death of the last survivor. Jim Rae, secretary of the Scottish branch of the Submariners Association, said: "It was an absolute bloody disaster from the beginning. The K Class submarines did not have a very impressive record. You can see why those who served in them were known as the suicide club." The submarines proved far more lethal to their crews than to the enemy, so much so that the K was said to stand for Kalamity. Driven by oil-fired steam turbine engines, they were large and cumbersome, too slow to keep up with surface ships, hard to manoeuvre and stifling for their crews. Of the 18 that were built, none were lost in action but six were sunk in accidental collisions. In January 1918, as British warships steamed north from Rosyth to join their fleet at Scapa Flow in the Orkneys, they were accompanied by two flotillas of the submarines. The first two subs found themselves bearing down on two minesweepers and changed course. The third, K14, veered to starboard to avoid colliding with them but performed a complete circle as its rudder jammed. That brought it back into line just in time to be rammed by the last submarine in the group, K22. A battlecruiser, HMS Inflexible, then ploughed into K22. The first ships in the convoy turned back to rescue the submarines and steamed straight into the chaos. A cruiser, HMS Fearless, rammed K17, another of the subs, sinking it within eight minutes. Then two further submarines, K4 and K6, collided. To complete the disaster, a destroyer then carved through the survivors of K17, killing many of those who had been left in the water. The entire 59-man crew of K4 was lost and all but eight of K17's. The Royal Navy hushed up the catastrophe and it was not until 2002 that a commemorative plaque was erected on a cairn in Anstruther, the nearest village on the coast, though even that does not refer to the cause of the loss of life. The Submariners' Association does, however, now hold an annual commemorative service. The site of the two sunken submarines, 100 metres apart and about 50 metres down, has long been known, but the wrecks have now been surveyed by divers from the specialist marine consultants EMU. The area is the proposed site for an offshore windfarm, known as the Neart na Gaoithe project, developed by a company called Mainstream Renewable Power. The project aims to generate 450MW of renewable energy and may eventually provide enough to power 325,000 Scottish homes. The developers claim it will offset more than 400,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions each year, and contribute towards the Scottish government's target of generating the equivalent of all the country's energy demands from renewable resources by 2020. Bob.
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HMS Submarine K 6.
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I have moved the two excellent pictures uploaded by Bob [Batstiger] to this thread as the Special Warship Pictures Gallery does not usually include submarine pictures.

Quote from Post #125, [I]'Having just been reading 'Mountbatten' by Phillip Ziegler I see in Chapter 3 - Junior Officer - pages 44 & 45 that - whilst appointed to HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH as a Midshipman during WWI Mountbatten spent two months in Submarine K6 as part of his Midshipman’s training. [/I] K6 Logs show Mountbatten spent exactly 14 Days with K6 in January 1918. The Author seems to have stretched the Mountbatten time by around 1.5 months for some reason???

[quote=Batstiger;10079911]HMS Submarine K 4. An underwater war grave containing the victims of one of the worst British naval disasters of the first world war has been surveyed for the first time so it can be preserved in the middle of a windfarm. The project aims to generate 450MW of renewable energy and may eventually provide enough to power 325,000 Scottish homes. The developers claim it will offset more than 400,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions each year, and contribute towards the Scottish government's target of generating the equivalent of all the country's energy demands from renewable resources by 2020. Bob.[/quote] More information about K4 and the Battle of May Island in [URL="http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10125&highlight=island"]THIS THREAD[/URL]. See post #7

I took the attached photo off the marina on the eastern side of Whale Island, opposite the Continental Ferry Port, at low water springs yesterday. Allegedly, it shows the remains of a K-Class submarine. Can anyone confirm this or shed any further light?
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It is HM Submarine P556 (ex USS S29), according to previous discussion - That is, if it is the same wreck? Because other sources say that P556 was scrapped at Pounds in 1983. All discussed in [URL="http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10600"]THIS THREAD[/URL] Just returned to this post to add that it can't be P556, and that Rob is refering to a different wreck methinks. I so far can't find any evidence of a K-Boat wreck being at Portsmouth. I shall continue to research this.

Here is a couple of K Class from my Private Collection. The first one of the K5 Crew always makes me laugh as I have little doubt the man I have marked as CHAP, has intentionally broken wind as the photo was taken. The guilty evil look or possibly proud look one can assume he has passed something that has gained the interest of the whole crew. Was this a common practice for crew photos in the RN??? 2nd Postcard, Rosyth?? Can anyone tell?
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Superb Darren .....

Do you think the chap in question is a wind breaker?

[QUOTE=BALTICSUBS;10081615]Do you think the chap in question is a wind breaker?[/QUOTE] Great photos but not sure if the photographer has produced some sort of affect to amuse them. The guys on the extreme right of the casing look equally amused, but would be out of range of a phantom wind breaker:D Equally, the crowd on the upper level are all looking jovial, but are not looking down to where "chap" is. Jim

Reference Rob Hoole's Post #139 and the Portsmouth Harbour wreck I saw a reference several years ago that after K15 sank alongside HMS CANTERBURY in June 1921 the submarine was raised and dumped on a mud bank in the harbour. I can't find the reference at the moment but I will have a hunt through my records. Later, in 1924, the hulk of K15 was sold for scrapping to a ship breaker at Upnor in Kent. Whether the submarine was ever removed by the ship breaker I have yet to determine.

There are only 29 on your list of survivors , there were more ,is there a full list somewhere. Regards Saddler

Hi whilst researching my Great Grandfather Arthur Cyril Hemsley, I have been fortunate enough to find some photos of K class submarines including interiors of K6, Commander Crowther at his desk, Aux machine room, Fore end (Torpedoes hauled back) Turbine room, Four officers in ward room and the control room. Also exterior photos of K3 K5 K6 K8 K15 at sea and K5 in dry dock. I will try and post this week end.

Hello Batsiger You have a couple of minor errors in the names of the Officers of K5. By my lists the six Officers on board were: Lieutenant Commander John Austin Gaimes DSO, Royal Navy - Commanding Officer: Lieutenant Frederick William Francis Cuddeford, Royal Navy - First Lieutenant Lieutenant Benjamin Jacob Clarke, Royal Navy Lieutenant Robert James Menteith Middlemist, Royal Navy Engineer Lieutenant Edward John Bowles, Royal Navy Engineer Lieutenant George William Baker, Royal Navy Unusually there were two engineers on boards and both were previously Mates (E) promoted from the lower deck. Frozen-north

Message for Dreadnought Going back some time on this thread - In your post of 21st January 2011 you refer to Submarine K6 getting stuck on the bottom at Devonport on diving trials. You also mention an engineer tracing and rectifying a fault which allowed the boat to surface. I am in contact with someone who reports that his grandfather - an engineer from Yorkshire - who lived in Barrow in Furness in a Vickers Company house around 1917 - 'was on a submarine which got stuck on the bottom during diving trials'. This chap reportedly traced a defect with an incorrectly fitted valve, refitted the valve and the submarine surfaced. Can you give me any reference/report or a name for the engineer for the incident that you described at Devonport as it sounds similar to my correspondent's story - although I can't see why an engineer at Vickers would be on a Devonport boat for diving trials at Devonport unless he was an Admiralty employee seconded to Devonport for those trials?

Good thought FN. Trust you get a reply - even after five years have gone by. But `Dreaders' is still around - so live in hope ! Sadsac

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