RN Destroyers: C Class (1943) - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 3)

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RN Destroyers: C Class (1943) - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 3)

RN Destroyers: C Class (1943) (Page 3)

Posts 101 to 150

QprDave & DH, CA's,CR's CO's and CH's were all built under the war emergency programme and all were fitted out the same. Armament:- 4x4.5" Guns 1xTwin 40mm 8x20mm 8x21"Torpedo Tubes This armament was standard to all 32 ships, 8 per Flotilla.When the CA's were modified during the 50s X mounting was removed along with one set of Torpedo Tubes to make way for 2xSquid Mortars Carron being the first of the class.CH's introduced the Mk V1 Director and RPC for the main armament, again during the 50s one set of tubes was removed to be replaced with Squid. Hope this helps.

Dave, The Ca class had different fire control directors to the Ch, Co and Cr classes (known as the 'K' Tower, significantly different visually from the Mk VI director fitted to the other three classes), and the later three classes had Remote Power Control for the main armament (which didn't show externally, but the extra weight meant that the forward set of quadruple torpedo tubes was omitted, thus the Ca class had eight tubes, the remainder only had four). Not sure what reference indicates that the Ch class had 4.7" guns - all my references say that all four classes had 4.5" Mk IV weapons. Tim

[QUOTE=Dave Hutson;80769]Dave, I have just been reading up on the CA's and the only significant possible difference I an find is that, I believe, and one of our Gunnery experts may correct me, was that the CH's had four single 4.7's. Dave H[/QUOTE] Good evening you 2 Daves. Leave me out the David family for now. Knocking on a bit so sometimes get a bit confused who you are referring to. Anyway attached is a bit of tech. info. Does it help? Note there are also the CR's which nobody seems to mention. Have a bit on them too if you want it? As for the guns, yes the Gunnery Branch will correct me too but I believe they ALL had single barrel turrets. Best wishes [B]Mousey[/B] P.S. Lit h note the leader had + 36, rather high?, but would account for why we did not have a sick bay on Chequers. From memory all the heads of Depts. were commanders except Jimmy the 1 ~ the Duke, only a 2 and half ringer.
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Thanks guys - we are well and truly back on thread. But I think we all agree they were great ships. Dave H

[QUOTE=tjstoneman;80782]Dave, The Ca class had different fire control directors to the Ch, Co and Cr classes (known as the 'K' Tower, significantly different visually from the Mk VI director fitted to the other three classes), and the later three classes had Remote Power Control for the main armament (which didn't show externally, but the extra weight meant that the forward set of quadruple torpedo tubes was omitted, thus the Ca class had eight tubes, the remainder only had four). Not sure what reference indicates that the Ch class had 4.7" guns - all my references say that all four classes had 4.5" Mk IV weapons. Tim[/QUOTE Apols Tim re nobody referring to the CR's. We were posting around the same time. Still no [B]GIZMO[/B] ?

Thanks for the detailed answer to my previous question everyone

Gents, since Qpr's recent question, 4 other contributors have referred to their 'sources/references/reading-up' info, with only Mousey dropping in a pair of attachments. The main thrust of the differences between the types is apparently the main armament and its associated gun direction systems... plus the removal of a set of tubes. Point of my post is that with the apparent wealth of source information, which I am assuming includes pics, and the relatively large numbers of vessels in the 4 classes to go at; the matter of this 'Gizmo' on the early directors has not been able to be resolved. This was clearly a piece of equipment fitted not just to the C classes but on a very few of the very early Battles .... (no I am not wandering off thread) BUT it was a fit on only the early versions of the Mk VI Gun Direction Platforms !!! I hope all of the contributors will therefore search again their sources to establish if there is any reference to the thing!!! Little h

Mainly for the Dave/David Bros. but Lit h maybe interested. For completeness herewith Tech. Info. I have. Apols for dupes but better to have it all in one post? I have info on individual ships of the class. Please ask. If no reply the Admiral of Moderation has caught up with me. Await details of my Court Martial. I may need a good defending officer!
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Sorry guys, put it down to a Communicator trespassing in the world of Gunnery. The 4.7 memory came from an article I did years ago on HMS Codrington. She was the result of a class of Post WWI Prototypes [namely Amazon and Ambuscade. built 1926] They were the first to be fitted with 4.7's and this was to continue until late in 1943 when the CA's emerged. The first to be fitted with 4.5 were the "Z" class [Myngs, Zambesi, Zebra, Zenith etc]. The reason I did the article on Codrington [D65 built 1929] [Although a C she was the first of the "A" class] was she had 5 x 4.7's the fifth being sited aft of the funnel and fitted for hi altitude firing. The rest of the class the "A"'s Antelope, Arrow, Ardent etc had 4. Codrington's extra gun didn't do her much good because she was sunk in Dover Harbour by enemy aircraft 27 July 1940. Apologies for causing confusion. Permission to reenter the C Class Destroyers Club? Dave H

Try as I might, I still cannot track down any information on the elusive GIZMO but it will not deter me. You cannot get away from the fact that even in the 60s they looked like Warships.
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Here are a couple of Cavendish entering Malta in 62. And one when she was laid up in Pompey 67.
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[QUOTE=Big Al;82284]Here are a couple of Cavendish entering Malta in 62. And one when she was laid up in Pompey 67.[/QUOTE]The mods dont exactly enhance her lines do they? Bit of a dogs dinner compared with the original.

Shame the last pic is so grainey. First two are excellent Al.

I agree with Rik - the first two are very good Al. Many thanks. :)

Rik,Terry, Cheers the last one was sent to me by a m8, but I dont have anything to sort it out with Programme wise. Any suggestions?.

[B]CHEVRON & HER ELUSIVE GIZMO: [/B]May I request you check out the Spent Rounds thread in respect of the [I]GIZMO[/I]. As you will see Chevron, in the early 50's, had what has now become known as a 'gizmo' on top of her director. This appears to be unique, in that form anyway, to her. The quest has been to find out what it was and its purpose. So far, to no proven avail. Any comments or suggestions Gentlemen? Preferably post on the Spent Rounds thread please. Thank you.

Evening All - regarding 'C' Class Destroyers, has any kind matelot got a decent to good photograph of HMS CROWN, R46 (I think) , 1945..... Would be very grateful............ George

re post [B]#53!!!![/B] I think you are standing starboard side 'B' gundeck facing forw'd, the vent mesh is facing aft as you'd expect !!! just my belated opinion of course:p Little h

George, You asked for photos of HMS CROWN. I don't think she ever sailed as "HMS", being handed over to Norway as HNoMS OSLO before completion. There is a photo of OSLO at [url]http://picasaweb.google.com/pingbosun/DESTROYERSSECONDALBUM#5166346310407697682[/url] (although captioned "HMS OSLO"). Tim

TIM - Many thanks for that info, really appreciated. At least I now have a photo and some info.... Cheers, George

A couple of pics of Oslo, ex Crown
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Many thanks for those pics 'beer bosun' - much appreciated.. George

Here are a few of Carysfort
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[B]COCKADE [/B]Paying off in 1958
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The CH class destroyers were originally built with four turrets but X turret was later removed because they were found to be top heavy. Anyone who served on these ships will know that they rolled very heavily and would turn over onto their sides when the wheel was hard over.

[QUOTE=Choppy Sea;95982]The CH class destroyers were originally built with four turrets but X turret was later removed because they were found to be top heavy. Anyone who served on these ships will know that they rolled very heavily and would turn over onto their sides when the wheel was hard over.[/QUOTE] All CH CA CO When first built had four MOUNTINGS also torpedo tubes on what we called the iron deck.Some also had STAAG at some point in there lives and a few namely cavalier for one had sea cat plus squid as well(that is why X mounting was removed to accommodate the squid .Two triple barrel squid weighed more than a mounting .Also they raised the super structure for a sea cat magazine.So the weight bit does not come into it They also rolled as destroyers do when at speed :D:D

Les, I'not seen any photos of 'C's with a STAAG mounting; I'd be interested to see one. Many of the ships were completed with a twin Bofors 40mm Mk IV, known as a Hazemeyer, some had the twin 40mm Mk V mounting and CAPRICE had an old quadruple 2-pounder mounting. Some of the Ca class were later fitted for a Seacat launcher, but only two (CAPRICE and CAVALIER) actually had the Seacat system fitted - the others had a single 40mm where the Seacat launcher was supposed to go. Tim

We were fitted for but not with seacat we did not have the aft bofor either .I remember well bacause the GI had his office in what would have been the saecat magazine(bofor mag ) he also lived up their too the staag were taken off early doors in there life i think by the early 60 to mid there were only a few type 15s with stagg .Cant help wih photies i have non only of the carysfort i was on

[QUOTE=Mousey;80784]Good evening you 2 Daves. Leave me out the David family for now. Knocking on a bit so sometimes get a bit confused who you are referring to. Anyway attached is a bit of tech. info. Does it help? Note there are also the CR's which nobody seems to mention. Have a bit on them too if you want it? As for the guns, yes the Gunnery Branch will correct me too but I believe they ALL had single barrel turrets. Best wishes [B]Mousey[/B] P.S. Lit h note the leader had + 36, rather high?, but would account for why we did not have a sick bay on Chequers. From memory all the heads of Depts. were commanders except Jimmy the 1 ~ the Duke, only a 2 and half ringer.[/QUOTE] "yes the Gunnery Branch will correct me too but I believe they ALL had single barrel turrets." David H (cant leave you out the David family) I'll get you out the do do before those G.I.'s come calling. Single barrel [I]mountings[/I] dear boy - they were open at the breach end - turrets are enclosed. Yes they were all commanders except the Duke. Well remember Cdr (E) in his white overalls. Did you know that the skipper, Killer Mike, was brother of P. Margarets 'friend' the air attache? I'll sign off a Mousey so you dont have to consult confused.com

[QUOTE=Mousey;96079]"yes the Gunnery Branch will correct me too but I believe they ALL had single barrel turrets." David H (cant leave you out the David family) I'll get you out the do do before those G.I.'s come calling. Single barrel [I]mountings[/I] dear boy - they were open at the breach end - turrets are enclosed. Yes they were all commanders except the Duke. Well remember Cdr (E) in his white overalls. Did you know that the skipper, Killer Mike, was brother of P. Margarets 'friend' the air attache? I'll sign off a Mousey so you dont have to consult confused.com[/QUOTE] Yes they are mountings !!!!.All the H O DEPTs were two ringers on us (carysfort ).The jimmy a lt commander submariner the skipper was a commander big G little g on of only 4 or five serving at the time :D

Hi Mousey, Have been away for a few days so had to refer right back on this one. Many thanks for trying to rescue me from an onslaught by our Gunnery experts, but, sorry, I never said CH's had Turrets, all I said was that they sported 4 x 4.7's. I believe that was in answer to someone saying they had 4.5's. But all this gunnery systems is interesting. Dave H p.s. I believe also they were mountings, not Turrets.

Take a look at my photos on page three HMS Chevron thread. The big one of her entring harbour with awnings up will show you what took the place of X Gun. As I said the X Gun was removed to correct the excesive roll of this class. As a matter of interest, someone mentioned the sick bay, this was at the forward end of the after superstructure before the hatch leading down to the after seamans messdeck.

[QUOTE=Choppy Sea;96951]Take a look at my photos on page three HMS Chevron thread. The big one of her entring harbour with awnings up will show you what took the place of X Gun. As I said the X Gun was removed to correct the excesive roll of this class. As a matter of interest, someone mentioned the sick bay, this was at the forward end of the after superstructure before the hatch leading down to the after seamans messdeck.[/QUOTE] Twas me Sir who mentioned not remembering Chequers having a sick bay. I believe someone else who was also on Chequers pointed out that this was due to the excessive number of hosifers we had onboard including a white overalled Cdr (E). Better go round that buoy again and get the history right?

[QUOTE=Mousey;96952]Twas me Sir who mentioned not remembering Chequers having a sick bay. I believe someone else who was also on Chequers pointed out that this was due to the excessive number of hosifers we had onboard including a white overalled Cdr (E). Better go round that buoy again and get the history right?[/QUOTE] Mousey, we are trying to remember something which happened some 58 years ago, schoolkids today dont know what happened yesterday. I remember the sickbay because we lost a frogman at Port Fouyad and the Doc asked me to help him prepare the body for burial, with the help of an extra tot from Jimmy. Keeping in touch through this forum helps us and reminds us of what we experienced all those years ago. Splice the mainbrace. By the way the frogmans name was M/E "Darkie" Gaish.

You are right, the doc was Bob Askam (wife Betty) i am sure, he helped to look after me when i contracted polio. Chequers was of course at the head of the Persian Gulf at the time. I have attached the relevant chapter from Lewin of Greenwich, in which you will find Bob's name in the last couple of lines. He and his family remained a close friend right up until his death, and my parents, around 10 years ago. As for refrences to myself, i am sure Richard Hill has dramatised this a little, i have only the vaguest memories of this time. I have never tried to atachg a Word file before so i hope it works. You will also find in it references to HRH and numerous others i'm sure you will remember. Tony Troup who took over as No.1 i am sure was the son of the chap who wrote "on the bridge" which was for decades the only manual for watchkeeping officers. I have a copy somewhere, had two, but gave the first ed to HMSB. good luck tim
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The bit about Chequers begins about half way through the chapter, i should have said. There is a bit about Bellona at the beginning tho... and a lot of rugger in between! tim

[QUOTE=tim lewin;97039]You are right, the doc was Bob Askam (wife Betty) i am sure, he helped to look after me when i contracted polio. Chequers was of course at the head of the Persian Gulf at the time. I have attached the relevant chapter from Lewin of Greenwich, in which you will find Bob's name in the last couple of lines. He and his family remained a close friend right up until his death, and my parents, around 10 years ago. As for refrences to myself, i am sure Richard Hill has dramatised this a little, i have only the vaguest memories of this time. I have never tried to atachg a Word file before so i hope it works. You will also find in it references to HRH and numerous others i'm sure you will remember. Tony Troup who took over as No.1 i am sure was the son of the chap who wrote "on the bridge" which was for decades the only manual for watchkeeping officers. I have a copy somewhere, had two, but gave the first ed to HMSB. good luck tim[/QUOTE] Tim, thanks for the info which I found very interesting. As regards Abadan the article mentions that the Ist Squadron went there which is what I had in mind but I was corrected by Mousey who actually took part. Then the article goes on to name only four of the Squadron which is the most likely. We may be on different tacks with "Doc". The person I am refering to was a leading Sick bay Attendant on Chevron who joined the ship in 1952 shorty after I transfered from HMS Liverpool on to Chevron, he was the only medical staff that we carried. He was a tall slim chap who wore thick rimmed glasses and played the guitar in the dogwatches, aged about eighty now. The previous SBA was crash drafted and promoted after he attended to an American airman from a plane which crashed in the eastern med, when this man was seen by surgeons in Bighi the SBA recieved a citation and promation for his excellent work on the airmans scalp which was almost detached from his head. M/E Gaish died I think the morning before the queens coronation under questionable circumstances, four frogmen went to inspect the ships bottom at about 06.00 but only three came back up. These three went down several times but could find no trace of him. A deep sea launch arrived from Forth and the diver on his way down bumped into the body. Their gear at the time consisted of backpack nose clip and mouthpiece which had to be bit on and the mouth kept completely closed. If sea water entered the mouthpiece the reaction with the crystals inside gave off a toxic gas. When the body was found the mouthpiece was completely detached from his mouth. The bit about the seawater and crystals is only what we were told. Porpoise were ruled out because sentrys all around the ship had not reported any underwater movement until the frogmen went down . But it may have been possible for an enemy frogman to have entered the area at the same time as our men. As far as I know no apparent reason was given for the death. His funeral was low key because terrorists ashore had made it a habit to dig up servicemen, mutilate the bodies and hang them in trees. Luckily this did not happen to M/E Gaish. Thanks again for your very interesting articles.

The book it came from was called "Lewin of Greenwich" by Richard Hill (who only recently retired after years as editor of the Naval Review and is a noted Naval historian) the book is quite easily available through the second hand dealers. Thanks very much for the extra info, there is nothing like memories of people who were there, even after all these years. good luck tim

[QUOTE=Mousey;96952]Twas me Sir who mentioned not remembering Chequers having a sick bay. I believe someone else who was also on Chequers pointed out that this was due to the excessive number of hosifers we had onboard including a white overalled Cdr (E). Better go round that buoy again and get the history right?[/QUOTE] I've just mentioned on the Comms thread that I wondered what Doc's and SBAs did when they had no patients? Not remembering the sick bay I would not remember that either of course.

Hi Mousey.See my post onthe comms thread.Cheers Steve.:)

[QUOTE=tim lewin;97179]The book it came from was called "Lewin of Greenwich" by Richard Hill (who only recently retired after years as editor of the Naval Review and is a noted Naval historian) the book is quite easily available through the second hand dealers. Thanks very much for the extra info, there is nothing like memories of people who were there, even after all these years. good luck tim[/QUOTE] The book is available from the Royal Naval Museum bookshop in Portsmouth and I have seen it for sale in several other bookshops at a reduced price. It is an excellent book and much more than just a biography of a great man (my first captain!) but gives a very good overview of the Royal Navy at that time. Strongly recommended.
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Thanks for that; when it went out of print i was lucky enough to secure the rights to republish it as an e-book from both the publishers and the author. This is how i am able to send you different chapters. There are a couple that are missing from the master CD RH sent me which i must have re-typed. I plan to republish later this year with a sort of forum to each chapter so people can submit their own memories to each, and of course with many more pictures, most of which foru members will have seen by now! But, having said that, it is a thoroughly comprehensive overview of the RN from 1939-1983 and thanks to RH's very careful research fills in a lot of detailed blanks. Most of the small recollections he obtained direct from a catalogue of people who are listed in the index. tim

Cavendish, was our Capt D, consisting of Cavendish, Comet, Carysfort, and Contest, always thought there was a fifth, but cant remember, Contest was D48

I only have a stock photo of Contest which I gathered from this site but when I was on her in the late 50s the iron deck had been fitted with mine rails which were a tripping hazard. However, they were responsible for saving the life of a leading E.M. We were going north off the East Coast in heavy seas with lifelines rigged. The LEM was going aft on the iron deck when he was hit by a wave and knocked over. As he started to slide towards the ships side his toolbag jammed in the mine rails and he was able to hang on and work his way back onto the deck. In the same storm a boy seaman was lost from a CA, I think it was Carysfort. The flotilla turned back and searched for about three hours but in the dark it was hopeless and eventually we were forced to give up. Ken

[QUOTE=NSR;108580]I only have a stock photo of Contest which I gathered from this site but when I was on her in the late 50s the iron deck had been fitted with mine rails which were a tripping hazard. However, they were responsible for saving the life of a leading E.M. We were going north off the East Coast in heavy seas with lifelines rigged. The LEM was going aft on the iron deck when he was hit by a wave and knocked over. As he started to slide towards the ships side his toolbag jammed in the mine rails and he was able to hang on and work his way back onto the deck. In the same storm a boy seaman was lost from a CA, I think it was Carysfort. The flotilla turned back and searched for about three hours but in the dark it was hopeless and eventually we were forced to give up. Ken[/QUOTE] A boy was lost off the carysfort in that storm .His kit was sold severall times over and it raised an ansome sum for his mother(family)

On the Contest we had Squid mountings, the midships tubes were removed ,and above q/deck we had a twin bofor, this was 55/56, Staags were just coming in then and we didnt have one had single bofors each side of bridge,

[quote=BIG LES;108584]A boy was lost off the carysfort in that storm .His kit was sold severall times over and it saised an ansome sum for his mother(family)[/quote] I was on that excersise when the boy was lost , Roxboro was our skipper then i think and Goldsmith the jimmy think they put quite a bit in the whip round for sale of kit, i remember the life lines on deck and going along them to engine room with a fanny of kia, to get the live steam pipe in its for us on watch ,bloody rough sea`s that time,

Com. Roxborough was the skipper of Contest at that time. He went on to become Captain of Ark Royal and appear in the series 'Sailor' and finished as an Admiral. The kye drain was on the stand-by fuel oil pump in the engine room near the 'vaps. In another thread I have described the cooking expertise of Geordie Browell, the leading stoker on my watch. He had a lovely touch with a steam drain. The LEM I mentioned was Fitzgerald. We had another close shave earlier in Silema Creek but that is a different story Ken

Lewin of Greenwich - would be grateful if 'Invincible' or anyone else could provide the ISB number please. NSR's reference to the 'rails' brought back sore shins memories obtained on Obedient. Recent postings of minelaying on the Minesweepers and Minelayers thread are interesting as we never actually carried mines or knew how they were laid. The loss of the Boy on Carysfort was so sad. Once I was promoted to O.D. I became involved in the Canteen Committe and was certainly very impressed with the results of a kit auction when we lost someone in the bone yard. Equally we lost all of our funds on Loch Alvie when there was a bit of a to do with a Guz cruiser in the canteen at Trinco. They lost theirs too!

[QUOTE=NSR;108619]Com. Roxborough was the skipper of Contest at that time. He went on to become Captain of Ark Royal and appear in the series 'Sailor' and finished as an Admiral. The kye drain was on the stand-by fuel oil pump in the engine room near the 'vaps. In another thread I have described the cooking expertise of Geordie Browell, the leading stoker on my watch. He had a lovely touch with a steam drain. The LEM I mentioned was Fitzgerald. We had another close shave earlier in Silema Creek but that is a different story Ken[/QUOTE] we hit a Gash barge coming out of Malta , on way to Suez fraca`s correct? Roxboro was only a two and half ringer then i think

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