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HMS Aboukir, HMS Cressy & HMS Hogue: The Live Bait Squadron 1914 - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 2)


HMS Aboukir, HMS Cressy & HMS Hogue: The Live Bait Squadron 1914 (Page 2)


Posts 51 to 96


HMS Aboukir, 1902 A first cousin of my father's (Abraham I. Edwards)was serving as an O/S on HMS Aboukir when he was accidentally drowned off Corfu on 24th July, 1902. The ship's log. which I have examined at the National Archives gives little information, except that the body does not seem to have been recovered. It is a long shot but I wonder if any member has any information about the incident.

Hello Hugh and welcome to the Forum. I hope that someone can help you with information. Jim

Official Reports of the three Lost Cruisers Published in The Times on 26th September 1914
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Found this gravestone whilst having a wander round the cemetery at Halfway, Sheerness a couple of weeks ago. A family headstone, one of the inscriptions reads: [CENTER][FONT=Arial]FREDERICK C. DERING, R.N.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]WHO LOST HIS LIFE FROM H.M.S ABOUKIR,[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]SUNK IN THE [/FONT][FONT=Arial]NORTH[/FONT][FONT=Arial]SEA[/FONT][FONT=Arial] BY SUBMARINE,[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]SEP. 22ND 1914[/FONT][FONT=Arial], AGED 37 YEARS.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]BODY RECOVERED AND INTERRED IN [/FONT][FONT=Arial]HOLLAND[/FONT][FONT=Arial].[/FONT][/CENTER] [LEFT][FONT=Arial]I can find no information about this unfortunate soul, olther than he was an Engine Room Artificer (ERA) 1st Class[/FONT] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=white].[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=white].[/COLOR][/FONT][/LEFT]
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On the subject of headstones: About 20 years ago, I was wandering around the Isle of Wight researching Graves & Memorials to VC winners and when I got to St Mary The Virgin Churchyard in Brook, IoW, I there found the headstone of Col Henry Gore-Browne VC and on a shaped stone slab laid at the foot of his headstone was the following: To the dear memory of Geoffrey Gore-Browne Midshipman RN HMS ABOUKIR who in the North Sea on September 22nd 1914 at the age of 15 years gave his life for England and the cause of liberty. The beloved and loving son of Daisy and the late C.H.Arthur Gore-Browne and grandson of the late Colonel H.G.Gore-Browne VC, DL, JP Without fault before the throne of God. I assume that this was put there as a Memorial, and that he went down with the ABOUKIR and rests there still. Steve

Better image of the U-9
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The original builder's model of Cressy still exists in the United States at the Ships of the Sea museum in Savannah, Georgia. Here's a photo sent to me by the curator:
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[quote=Hugh Williams;13813]Hi, The HMS Aboukir was my earliest link to the RN, when a cousin of mine, as viewed in the photo's inset, went down with her. The photo is taken from a mounted and framed photo of the time. Oddly enough, I haven't had that many chances to follow up on either the RN or family connections, perhaps until now. My late uncle was the most recent RN connection, and is the source of some of the photos I post (or will post, as is the case). Regards, Hugh Williams[/quote] Seems we have been visited by Private Eye, who appear to have published the attached photo. I found the link on the Steel Navy forum, and note that there has been a thread within this forum relating to the Salvage of HMS Aboukir and her sisters. Link herein: [URL]http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=in_the_back&issue=1302[/URL] [COLOR=red]Update[/COLOR]....it seems possible that the photo was acquired through another source, enquiries are continuing.

[QUOTE=Aboukir;2227]Hello all, a newby here! I have been researching this naval action for some time as my grandfather was a casualty on Aboukir. He was killed 2 months befor my father was born. My question to you experts is this " does anyone have a list of survivors of this action" or even crew lists of the 3 ships? Aboukir[/QUOTE] On a quick scroll through this thread I didn't see a link to this page, so I'm adding it in: [url]http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1914-09Sept.htm[/url] Scrolling down the page you will find a list of all those killed and the survivors from all three ships.

[B][COLOR="Blue"]Three Lost Cruisers[/COLOR][/B] Published in The Times on the 23rd September 1914
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[B][COLOR="Blue"]Three Lost Cruisers[/COLOR][/B] Published in The Times on the 24th September 1914
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[B][COLOR="Blue"]Three Lost Cruisers[/COLOR][/B] Published in The Times on the 25th September 1914
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[B][COLOR="Blue"]Three Lost Cruisers[/COLOR][/B] Published in The Times on the 28th September 1914
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[B][COLOR="Blue"]Three Lost Cruisers[/COLOR][/B] [B]U-Boat Commander's comments[/B] Published in The Times on the 12th October 1914
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Sometime ago I purchased a box of old photographs and amongst them was this cabinet photo. I expect he went down with the ship....
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[QUOTE=astraltrader;10100389] I expect he went down with the ship....[/QUOTE] Probably not, I'd say. The great majority of the men lost in the North Sea only joined the ship on the outbreak of war. The photo taken in Malta must be pre-war when the ship had quite a different crew.

Picture in our local newspaper this week relevent to this thread. Naval reservists some of whom lost their lives on the Cressy.
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Were these ships known as "The Live Bait Squadron" before this action, or as a result of it?

The official name was the 7th Cruiser Squadron, but because of the perils that they ran, they were known, within the fleet, as the Live Bait Squadron. If you google Live Bait Squadron you will find a wealth of information about it. Jim

I am new member also fascinated by what happened to these three ships. There is now a Live Bait Squadron Society [url]http://www.livebaitsqn-soc.info/[/url] A founder member is a Dutch historian Henk H.M. van der Linden whose 'Drie massagraven voor de Nederlandse kust ' ( 'Three mass-graves off the Dutch coast') came out in 2010. There is now an English translation. There is quite an interest in The Netherlands as a number of bodies of those who died were washed up on the Dutch coast, and also two Dutch fishing vessels 'De Flora' and 'De Titan' rescued a number of survivors who were in the water and took them to The Netherlands. The survivors were quickly deported from the neutral Netherlands. There are plans for a commemoration of those who died to be held both at Chatham and The Hague to mark the centenary.

As an ex-junglie WAFU (and ex-pongo to boot) I never dreamed I'd be a member of a Naval Ship forum. Ha Ha! I slipped through the net with my Junglie cunning! I ended up here as I was doing some family history and discovered a relative had been buried in the Hague cemetery and his grave is maintained by the CWGC. I am ashamed to admit that I knew nothing of the disaster and I must thank you all for your help in telling the story. Until 2 days ago, I had no idea of him yet alone his tragic circumstances and the displeasing account of his demise. He was lucky to have been old enough to leave a family behind. I recently learned that German and British wartime pilots would radio potential (safe) landing sites for their opposite number shortly after successfully shooting them out of the sky. There is a strange parallel here with the almost revered status that Weddingen is held in when reading all these accounts. I rarely read that he was the bad guy, and that his job was to kill ships and his skill was respected. Am I right in thinking that as my relative is buried at the Hague cemetery, he likely was washed up on the beach or recovered from the water?
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Wardy Mate, it might be worth contacting the Live Bait Squadron Society website as above. Henk van der Linden might be able to access the burial records at The Hague. I hope to get to over there later in the year. Regards <>

The latest on line bulletin of the Live Bait Squadron Society is now on line: Includes details of the centenary commemorations taking place in both Chatham and The Hague this September. [url]http://www.livebaitsqn-soc.info/live-bait-squadron-society-bulletin-7/[/url]

A postcard I recently obtained of Hogue.
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Am I right in thinking that HMS Euryalus was a member of the squadron but luckily for her she was refitting at Chatham at the time of the sinkings.

Having a quick look at Alan Coles' Three Before Breakfast - a true and dramatic account of how a German U-boat sank three British cruisers in one desperate hour' (1980) HMS Euryalus departed for Sheerness on September 19th 1914 to get some more coal and due to the fact that her radio aerial was defective. Robert K.Massie's 'Castles of Steel-Britain, Germany and the Winning of the Great War at Sea (2003), HMS Euryalus went to Harwick to pick up more coal. It was probably a lucky escape wherever the ship went to. [QUOTE=stokes49er;10118063]Am I right in thinking that HMS Euryalus was a member of the squadron but luckily for her she was refitting at Chatham at the time of the sinkings.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Michael. My dad was also lucky. He joined Euryalus on the 19th of September 1916 as O/D seaman. Served aboard her until October 1917. He an H/O rating. For interest. I have two of his navy collars which I wore during my time in the navy. They have three seperate white tapes sewn on by hand. Harry

Thanks for the information; to the best of my knowledge, and at some point I'll get the books out and check again, HMS Euryalus was taken off North Sea patrols after the sinking of the three sister ships in the squadron. There were some terrible errors of judgement concerning how these cruisers were operating, but then the Royal Navy had no experience of facing U boats. [QUOTE=stokes49er;10118211]Thanks Michael. My dad was also lucky. He joined Euryalus on the 19th of September 1916 as O/D seaman. Served aboard her until October 1917. He an H/O rating. For interest. I have two of his navy collars which I wore during my time in the navy. They have three seperate white tapes sewn on by hand. Harry[/QUOTE]

Euryalus was in Bombay in April 1917. Not actually 'The thread' so I'll make it the last. Harry

That's interesting Harry. In other words out of the range of U boats! Thanks [QUOTE=stokes49er;10118376]Euryalus was in Bombay in April 1917. Not actually 'The thread' so I'll make it the last. Harry[/QUOTE]

There is clip of the new documentary on the Live Bait Squadron available here: The first showing of the full version will be held at Chatham on 21st September 2014: [url]http://vimeo.com/69971830[/url]. More information from the Live Bait Squadron [url]http://www.livebaitsqn-soc.info/[/url]

[QUOTE=MichaelBully1;10123037]There is clip of the new documentary on the Live Bait Squadron available here: The first showing of the full version will be held at Chatham on 21st September 2014: [url]http://vimeo.com/69971830[/url]. More information from the Live Bait Squadron [url]http://www.livebaitsqn-soc.info/[/url][/QUOTE] Thanks for the links,great stuff. Will there be a DVD available eventually?

Not sure but could find out for you. I have been invited to the first screening of the documentary at Chatham on 21st September which I am looking forward to. Regards [QUOTE=VirtualF;10123410]Thanks for the links,great stuff. Will there be a DVD available eventually?[/QUOTE]

Link to the Royal Dockyard Chatham website re the 22nd September 2014 commemoration : Looks like allocated places are fast running out. [url]http://www.thedockyard.co.uk/NetsiteCMS/pageid/1359/First%20World%20War%20Centenary%20Event:%20Loss%20of%20Three%20Royal%20Navy%20Cruisers.html[/url]

Still writing my notes up about the centenary commemoration at Chatham on Sunday 21st September 2014/ Monday 22nd September 2014. Here is a link for the Monday remembrance service at Historic Dockyard Chatham: More to follow [url]http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/service-for-1459-lost-soldiers-24033[/url]

Hi All IMHO this was a disaster waiting to happen, born of complacency and a lack of understanding among senior officers of the navy of what a submarine was capable of. Admiral Lord Charles Beresford dismissed them as "playthings" and "Fisher's toys". Churchill as First Lord of the Admiralty realised the danger they posed and following a meeting aboard Iron Duke recommended that the old ships be withdrawn and sent a memo to Prince Louis Battenberg saying "The Bacchantes ought not to continue on this beat. The risk to such ships is not justified by the service they render. The narrow seas, being the nearest part to the enemy, should be kept by a small number of good modern ships". Prince Louis agreed and told Sturdee to issue the order. It didn't happen. Probably, as a result of this attitude at the top, at sea the patrols had become routine, zig zagging was not carried out and the inevitable happened with tragic loss of life. Even after the first ship was torpedoed the idea that a submarine may be responsible never seemed to occur to anyone. When the second ship was hit it seemed to dawn on them but by then it was much too late. Mitch Hinde

There is a mention of this event (action? in the book "Castles of Steel" by Robert K Massie which seems to explain the Admiralty thinking regarding these three ship and the attitude to submarine warfare prevalent at that time. As I remember it the battleships were primarily crewed by RNR personnel. Steve

"Battleships?" I have always thought that they were armoured cruisers of the "Cressy" class.

[QUOTE=Grosser Kreuzer;10124997]"Battleships?" I have always thought that they were armoured cruisers of the "Cressy" class.[/QUOTE] Sorry Grosser Kreuzer, you are quite right. Unfortunately us WAFUs have difficulty differentiating between even a whaler and a destroyer. Only if it has an aircraft on it do we sit up and take notice. :D :D :D :D Steve

Sorry seem to have been a bit slow on following up this thread. In respect of the sinking of the three ships- I've got a copy of the report of the Court of Enquiry Into Loss of Aboukir, Cressy and Hogue on 22nd September 1914 . National Archives ADM 1/8396/356...their conclusions [B]Section 6 [/B] 1) Lack of zigzagging 2) Captain Drummond of the Aboukir should not have ordered the other two cruisers to close in as he couldn't have determined whether it was a mine or a torpedo that his ship had struck. 3) The Captains of Cressy and Hogue shouldn't have stopped their ships when closing in. 4) The number of lookouts on the three ships was insufficient. 5) Water tight doors on Aboukir and Hogue were left half-open ....this seems to have been due to the instructions of the engine rooms. 6. Court raised concern that codes and cyphers were endangered by the sinkings. 7. Court praised the magnificent courage, discipline and devotion to duty shown by officers and men [B]Section 7 [/B] The Court submits for consideration that allocation of lifebelts should be one for every crew member.....thinking that captains of ships would have less concerns about leaving a ship of their squadron that had been hit . Smaller boats could then pick survivors up ,smaller vessels would be less likely to be torpedoed. ( I was also thinking that smaller boats would be at less risk from underwater mines)

Not sure what I think of this but interesting concept. BBC Radio 2 has been broadcasting new bulletins of events hundred years ago as if they were contemporary. This is the clip from 22nd September 2014 [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p026zb24[/url]

Greetings -The Live Bait Squadron Society bulletin 9 is now available. The Chairman Henk Van Der Linden had a well deserved break after all the work centred round the 22nd September 2014 centenary events so great to hear from them again. Generating interest in the Great War at Sea in The Netherlands, Britain and Germany. [url]http://www.livebaits...ety-bulletin-9/[/url] Looks like that there will be a regular commemoration on 22nd September to remember those who died from the three ships. Not sure if this will be at Chatham or in The Hague.

Greetings The Live Bait Squadron Bulletin 10 is now available to view here [url]http://www.livebaitsqn-soc.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/The-Live-Bait-Squadron-Society-Bulletin-10.pdf[/url] Had wondered if the Society would peak with the 22nd September 1914 -2014 commemoration but seems to be growing: Its focus seems to be very much centred on family history, and the number of descendants of those who lost their lives or those who survived, is impressive. The sinking of the three ships is set to be remembered which is most welcome. My only concern is that the Live Bait Squadron Society is not so open to interested parties who don't happen to have an obvious family connection to the men in either of the three ships. But they might yet prove to be the most successful of the Great War at Sea Commemoration groups.

The Live Bait Squadron Society has a newsletter available for download at [url]http://www.livebaitsqn-soc.info/[/url] After the successful centenary commemoration at Chatham on 22nd September 2014 -the 'Society are working on a proposal for a 400 page memorial book with accompanying set of DVDs. Will include photos, official records of the time, family histories from descendants of those on board the cruisers, a survey of memorials . Editions in both Dutch and English. All depends on advance orders and overall interest.

Greetings, the latest Live Bait Squadron Society newsletter 11, January 2016, can be read on line from their website . [url]http://www.livebaitsqn-soc.info/[/url] Looks like the 400 page memorial book is unlikely to go ahead due to lack of finance. Ultimately World War 1 at sea is not particularly popular topic. Also World War 1 centenary funding is directed towards community based projects rather than publications.

English language version of Dutch film first shown in 2014, to commemorate the centenary of the sinking of the cruisers Aboukir, Hogue and Cressy is now available to view on line. [url]http://onderwaterbeelden.nl/the-live-bait-squadron/[/url] More about the making of the documentary can be found here. [url]http://www.livebaitsqn-soc.info/the-documentary/[/url]




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