Russian Trawlers ?? - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 2)

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Russian Trawlers ?? - World Naval Ships Forums Archive (Page 2)

Russian Trawlers ?? (Page 2)

Posts 51 to 65

[QUOTE=Scatari;10055298] (Have some other AGI-related stories too if there is any interest.)[/QUOTE] Yes please

[QUOTE=harry.gibbon;10055340]Nice one Tim! Was the contents of the AGI response ([COLOR="red"][B]in red[/B][/COLOR]):D gleaned from intelligence gathered or promulgated ships' movements list? More stories please! Little h[/QUOTE] Thanks Harry Not sure how they would have obtained that particular information. In those days ships' movements were all officially classified "Confidential," but I suppose with families at home knowing where we were going and local authorities in Plymouth being aware of our visit, it probably wasn't too hard for the Soviets to obtain this information. (As an aside, today's proliferation of "instant communications," be it email, text messaging, Twitter, Skype, etc., etc., appears to have made it virtually impossible to keep anything classified any more!) I remember another incident, again in the early 1970s, which demonstrated just how much the Soviets knew about our movements. My ship was deployed as the Canadian rep in STANAVFORLANT (Standing NATO Force Atlantic). We were involved in a major NATO exercise in the eastern Atlantic and, as was the norm, a Soviet AGI was keeping a watchful eye on things. Towards the scheduled end of the exercise, the weather deteriorated very badly and the decision was made by the powers that be to end the exercise early. The signal went out to all the forces involved and the various ships ceased all exercise-related activity and started to head off for their various home ports or port visits. My ship happened to be fairly close to the AGI at the time and as the squadron was forming up, she called us up by flashing light and asked us why we were cancelling the "multi-threat" phase and terminating the exercise 36 hours early ... not only did she know to the minute when the exercise was actually supposed to end, but also exactly what the Operation Order had called for in those 36 hours!

[QUOTE=Scatari;10055359]Thanks Harry Not sure how they would have obtained that particular information. In those days ships' movements were all officially classified "Confidential," but I suppose with families at home knowing where we were going and local authorities in Plymouth being aware of our visit, it probably wasn't too hard for the Soviets to obtain this information. (As an aside, today's proliferation of "instant communications," be it email, text messaging, Twitter, Skype, etc., etc., appears to have made it virtually impossible to keep anything classified any more!) I remember another incident, again in the early 1970s, which demonstrated just how much the Soviets knew about our movements. My ship was deployed as the Canadian rep in STANAVFORLANT (Standing NATO Force Atlantic). We were involved in a major NATO exercise in the eastern Atlantic and, as was the norm, a Soviet AGI was keeping a watchful eye on things. Towards the scheduled end of the exercise, the weather deteriorated very badly and the decision was made by the powers that be to end the exercise early. The signal went out to all the forces involved and the various ships ceased all exercise-related activity and started to head off for their various home ports or port visits. [B][COLOR="Red"]My ship happened to be fairly close to the AGI at the time and as the squadron was forming up, she called us up by flashing light and asked us why we were cancelling the "multi-threat" phase and terminating the exercise 36 hours early ... not only did she know to the minute when the exercise was actually supposed to end, but also exactly what the Operation Order had called for in those 36 hours[/COLOR][/B]![/QUOTE] Tim, The quoted element in red is not at all surprising to me .... lets say that the Ops Room(s) and enclosed Bridge(s) in ships operating during the 3rd qtr of last century, could be a great source of information with all those conversations going on therein coupled with the various unencrypted/insecure voice circuits in constant use .... and you had no need of the modern of communication you quoted, the 'stuff' was all there for the taking. Best I say no more eh;);):( except that it might be said that even open microphones have ears:eek: Little h

[QUOTE=harry.gibbon;10055366]Tim, The quoted element in red is not at all surprising to me .... lets say that the Ops Room(s) and enclosed Bridge(s) in ships operating during the 3rd qtr of last century, could be a great source of information with all those conversations going on therein coupled with the various unencrypted/insecure voice circuits in constant use .... and you had no need of the modern of communication you quoted, the 'stuff' was all there for the taking. Best I say no more eh;);):( except that it might be said that even open microphones have ears:eek: Little h[/QUOTE] All very true Harry ... the warning "Loose lips sink ships" was as relevant in the 1970s (and today) as it was when it appeared on posters in WWII.

I know of at least one instance in the early 1980s in the USMC when the intell types showed up at a squadron that was getting ready to deploy overseas and began irately questioning everyone looking for who had leaked the deployment schedule... including the date/time info for the aircraft ferry flights and the required mid-ocean aerial re-fuelings. Finally our CO had had enough and ordered all the intell wienees into his office (he really couldn't command them, but they went anyway) and informed them that, as neither he nor his ops officer nor his own intell officer had received the schedule, that it was pretty darned obvious that it was impossible for anyone in the squadron to have leaked the info... and that they needed to move "higher on the food-chain" to find their target!

Regarding ships movements, during my time 50s-70s all ships movements and locations were written down in a book called the Pink List. It was supposed to be confidential but you could always find one lying around, In those days the book was quite thick. Today I suppose you could get the fleet on one page.

[QUOTE=johnny07;10055509]Regarding ships movements, during my time 50s-70s all ships movements and locations were written down in a book called the Pink List. It was supposed to be confidential but you could always find one lying around, In those days the book was quite thick. Today I suppose you could get the fleet on one page.[/QUOTE] John, My recollection is that the Pink List advised of ships movements in harbour/port, not location at sea. Not forgetting the Red, Green and Blue Lists of course. Little h

That's right Harry but what I ment by movements and location was what station the any given ship was going to, how long it would be there and where it was going next. When you got a draft chit the first thing you would do was to check the pink list. You did'nt have to worry if you lost the list, the Russian embassy would always send you a copy.

Harry I remember the Pink list - I think it came out weekly with details of ships locations and port visits, refits etc and there was always a copy in the MCO so you knew which was the nearest comcen to route any signal traffic to them. But please enlighten me as to what were the red green and blue lists?? Geoff

[QUOTE=Scatari;10055298][/B] As we exited the Straits of Gibraltar, a Moma Class AGI attached itself to the force and tailed us up the coast of Portugal and into the Bay of Biscay. [/QUOTE] Nice story. Can you specify when it took place and the name of AGI, if possible of course. Regards, Serge.

[QUOTE=Old Seaman;10055583]Nice story. Can you specify [B]when it took[/B] [B]place and the name of AGI[/B], if possible of course. Regards, Serge.[/QUOTE] Wow - that's really asking me to exercise the brain cells Serge. It was either 1972 or 1973, but I can't remember which. I do remember that while exercising in the Western Mediterranean before this encounter, we had spent some time in company with HMS Blake, so if one of our RN friends can determine her movements in those years, that would help. As far as the name of the AGI is concerned ... I'm afraid that I have absolutely no idea. Cheers!

[QUOTE=Geoff H.;10055575]Harry I remember the Pink list - I think it came out weekly with details of ships locations and port visits, refits etc and there was always a copy in the MCO so you knew which was the nearest comcen to route any signal traffic to them. But please enlighten me as to what were the red green and blue lists?? Geoff[/QUOTE] Geoff, Red; as for Pink list but... of minor war vessels in home waters. Green; Landing Ships, Landing Craft and similar in home waters. Blue; Ships building. Whether that system is still in existence I do not know, but there is always the Daily Shipping Movements on line!!!:):) Little h

Thank you Harry. As someone has commented one sheet of A4 size will do the lot nowadays, but its probably just a click of a mouse away Geoff

One of the oldest (built in 1970) Russian AGIs is lost. Good to see that there was no loss of life. (From CBC News) [B]Russian navy vessel sinks after collision off Turkey[/B] "[I]A Russian reconnaissance ship sank after it collided with a Togo-flagged cargo vessel off the Turkish coast on Thursday, according to Turkey's coastal safety authority. The Russian ship [I][B]Liman[/B][/I] and the other vessel, identified by authorities as Youzarsif H, collided in fog and low visibility in the Black Sea. [/I]" Complete article here: [url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-ship-collision-1.4088014[/url]

No doubt there will be a scramble to salvage her/remove sensitive equipment. Jim

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