Paint Samples

[torpedoes-running]

I realise this post is a little strange, however I recently acquired part of a collection and amongst the itmes were several envelopes of paint samples.

The paint samples were collected during the 1950s and 60s by Tom Ferrer-Walker, who also provided most of the photos in the "To Sail No More" series.

Given model makers might be interested in getting the colours right I thought they might be useful. Scanned on a kodak scanner so the colours should be ok.

Samples from:

Vanguard (Battleship)
Liverpool (Cruiser)
Theseus (Carrier)
Ocean (Carrier)
Duke of York (Battleship)


Regards

Freddy

Intriguing, this one Freddy;.. quite sad though.

And also disappointing in a strange way; probably due to pure nostalgia on my part.

I spent a couple of weeks on the VANGUARD in 1959, albeit at the South Railway Jetty, Portsmouth. The ship looked and smelt 100% Royal Navy at that time, and was a pure (if misguided) potent symbol of R.N. Naval Strength and Power, unsurpassed in PR ever since, in my opinion.

However, seeing these tiny flakes of her paint make me really saddened.

But I do hope they can help someone to recreate something of her real spirit; even if, just like you hope it will only be in model form, it should give pleasure for generations to come!

[medway508]

The grey is probably AP507C which is available from White Ensign Models in their RN paint series.

[torpedoes-running]

They greys are all quite different from a buff grey (Vanguard) to blue grey (Duke of Yourk). I'll see if I can find some software to determine the pantone colours.

Freddy

[Grosser Kreuzer]

Hello Freddy,

Thanks for this. It will be of interest to someone. Problem is that the samples may have faded from the time that they were applied and may not reflect the "as new" shade.

Paint shades do vary. A "Lot" number is given to each manufacture, which is why one had to mix several drums if a big job was contemplated. It is also possible that the "grey" that was issued as standard at the time that these samples were applied was different from was was specified later.

It is odd but the standard "ship side grey" used to-day appears, to my mind, to be "bluer" than it was in the late '70's, when I was at sea. Of course, memory is fallible.

GK

[medway508]

Freddy,

I agree with the fading comment. Light has an effect too.

The RN has only used 3 greys since WW2.

AFO2249 issued in 1947 laid down AP507C as the standard colour.

BR19, the RN’s painting manual, changed this to BS381C 697 Light Admiralty Grey (LAG). I’ve never been able to find out the date this was issued but for the Coronation Review, ships were painted in a new blue grey colour scheme per Peter Hodges' book on RN colours. Apparently, most ships then reverted to the old colours. At some stage the R.N. changed colours. The problem is when. I know from talking to the son of the man responsible for the RCN’s grey green colour that in 1957, the Canadians adopted their then new light grey green after seeing the R.N.’s colour. There is a report in a magazine that the RN came into a Canadian port with the Canadian fleet and the Canadian ships were visible long before the RN ones. The Canadians were impressed by this and started to change their colours. At that time the RCN used a very dark grey (near black) hull colour.

In 1968, the RN switched to BS381C 676 Light Weatherworks grey and still use it. I’d guess the reason for the switch is that they didn’t like the new LAG. In 1964, British Standards changed the colour from Blue Grey to a duck egg blue (my description of it!). This is the colour you will see on Cavalier. They have the correct colour code but at the wrong time.

To give you an idea of the real colour & effects of light on it, I’ve attached a couple of shots of my Tartar in the old LAG and a friend’s Leopard.

I have a friend who runs a railway model paint company. She was allowed access to the archives of the standard association in Australia and managed to see the original colour chips etc dating back to 1948 when LAG was introduced. She matched paint to the 1948 colour. The chips through to 1964 were blue grey then changed. Most Australian standard colours are actually British Standard colours with an Australian name e.g. the old RN deck colour of BS381C 632 Dark Admiralty Grey is AS2700 N63 Pewter. The RAN have recently returned to using that as their deck paint.

[Grosser Kreuzer]

Medway,

This is somewhat "off" the track of this thread but.

Do you have anything on deck colours post WWII please? I am becoming intrigued as to when the "reddish brown" used during the '60's and the "green" that seems to have been used alternatively came into use and what the pattern numbers/British Standard numbers were.

Your copy of the AFO was most interesting and "thank you" for posting it.

GK

[Dave Hutson]

Medway,

Last year I was looking for the Grey Shade for a Miami Crash Boat [US early equivalent to our WWII Air Sea Rescue Launches]. This search took me to a Model Railway Shop where the guy produced a Colour Chart [either Revell or Humbrol] which listed the colours/shades for Railways/Ships/Aircraft both Allied and Axis. Any help?

Dave H

[Destroyerman]

I suppose that we must also factor-in that colour definition is mainly in the eye of the beholder. Paint colours could be 'spot on' when applied to a model, but three out of ten onlookers may disagree!

Generally I use Humbrol enamels for my ships sides and camouflage patterns. These seem to be fine when working in 1:72 scale, but need lightening slightly when coming down through the scales.

But this has proved to be a good topic and may, in the end, rationalise the colours that we use.

Attached is a detail from my 1:72 scale HMS RODNEY, showing the various colours in her well known camouflage pattern. This will fade down during the summer depending on usage.

Sandy.

[medway508]

The green decks were BS480014C39 per the painting history of HMS Plymouth. I have also seen the painting instructions for a Leander at Chatham Dockyard which said BS381C 226 Mid Brunswick Green could be substituted. Humbrol’s deck green isn’t like either of these colours. If you want to see what it is like go on board a Type 45. Some of the interior decks are painted in this colour. It is still a standard deck colour per Defstans.

The red decks would have been BS381C Red Oxide. Several ships were around with either the forecastle and/or quarterdeck painted this colour. I spoke to a guy who was a first lieutenant on a Battle Class in Singapore. His ship’s decks were completely red oxide. Captain D had half the flotilla with green decks and the half leader’s ships with red decks.

FYI, I contacted Humbrol re which colours were actual colours and which were not. Have attached a list of the actual colours. Most of the real greys are USN not RN!

[Grosser Kreuzer]

Medway,

Thank you for the reply. It was interesting to read that one destroyer squadron had the ships' decks of half the vessels painted green and the other half red oxide. Otherwise the decision to paint a ship's decks a particular colour somehow seems to have been a random one. Certainly decks during the 1960's were one or the other.

For your information (and others that may have followed this one) David Williams's "Naval Camouflage 1914-1945" has an Appendix in it that gives the Humbrol equivalencies of RN camouflage colours used during the period stated.

GK

[medway508]

If you want to see what looks like an all red deck ship, have a look at the thread on HMS Diana 1963 >1964.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...ead.php?t=8540

[Destroyerman]

medway508,

thanks for the Humbrol cross reference chart.

Very good and quite revealing.

Sandy.

[Grosser Kreuzer]

Medway,

Thank you but having served in HMS DELIGHT in the mid '60's and having several small photographs that were taken onboard at the time, I don't need reminding what a red oxide deck (with deck strips) looks like! However, I appreciate your taking the time to reply.

GK

PS IIRC HMS DECOY also had "r o" decks during the mid '60's.