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  #76  
Old 27-02-2011, 09:24
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Scurs Scurs is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Agreed Nobby...............as FC2 my Action Station was in the TS too, at the height of the Indonesian Confrontation, we used to enter and leave Singapore Naval Base at Defence Stations (or maybe full Action Stations, can't recall)....anyway, always used to reckon that had we hit a mine (the given reason), my chances of escaping lay between nil and very little.
On the plus side, it was a nice air-conditioned compartment, and sitting there twiddling the occasional knob and looking at radar instead of humping 4.5" shells around, highly compensated.

To MANCHESTER though, strikes me they can't lift a finger unless the US Coastguard permits it, and only then if the governing authorities from whence the drugs originate let them.........otherwise they are, for all their sophisticated armament, powerless politically.
So why are they there? I would have thought the US Coastguard on it's own had more ships than the entire RN these days and hardly needed ours. Political rather than practical I suppose, "show a presence" sort of thing.
I did think, with the fiasco over sinking one fibre-glass boat, that wind the clock back and a couple of Type 14's or Ton Class CMS's, couldn't have done any worse! At least a 40/60 would have HIT the thing!
Finally, back in 1965, I believe the oldest ship in commission with the RN was PLOVER, and even SHE was "only" 28 years old..........not surprised MANCHESTER broke down!
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  #77  
Old 27-02-2011, 09:48
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rimbo rimbo is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by Scurs View Post
Agreed Nobby...............as FC2 my Action Station was in the TS too, at the height of the Indonesian Confrontation, we used to enter and leave Singapore Naval Base at Defence Stations (or maybe full Action Stations, can't recall)....anyway, always used to reckon that had we hit a mine (the given reason), my chances of escaping lay between nil and very little.
On the plus side, it was a nice air-conditioned compartment, and sitting there twiddling the occasional knob and looking at radar instead of humping 4.5" shells around, highly compensated.

To MANCHESTER though, strikes me they can't lift a finger unless the US Coastguard permits it, and only then if the governing authorities from whence the drugs originate let them.........otherwise they are, for all their sophisticated armament, powerless politically.
So why are they there? I would have thought the US Coastguard on it's own had more ships than the entire RN these days and hardly needed ours. Political rather than practical I suppose, "show a presence" sort of thing.
I did think, with the fiasco over sinking one fibre-glass boat, that wind the clock back and a couple of Type 14's or Ton Class CMS's, couldn't have done any worse! At least a 40/60 would have HIT the thing!
Finally, back in 1965, I believe the oldest ship in commission with the RN was PLOVER, and even SHE was "only" 28 years old..........not surprised MANCHESTER broke down!
Hi Scur,
Without getting drawn in,i too saw the series and agree with you.I never laughed so much at trying to sink that thing,especially filling it with water,ha ha!!a small amount of plastic would have done the job without any trouble.
Did the US Coast Guard say they could do it?
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  #78  
Old 27-02-2011, 13:28
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Wellbran Wellbran is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Nobby, I agree about the Iranian so called POW's, what made me burning mad was they sold their stories to the tabliods (when they did not have any story to tell) when my Father's story was just ignored by most after WW2 He once wrote his WW2 story to the Readers digest as they had asked him, He was haunted and quite ill writing his accounts down on paper only for the Readers digest to decline from printing it (probably too horrible for print) He went out into the garden and burnt his own copy of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF-Tast2Ua8
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  #79  
Old 27-02-2011, 22:20
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Nobby, I agree about the Iranian so called POW's, what made me burning mad was they sold their stories to the tabliods (when they did not have any story to tell) when my Father's story was just ignored by most after WW2 He once wrote his WW2 story to the Readers digest as they had asked him, He was haunted and quite ill writing his accounts down on paper only for the Readers digest to decline from printing it (probably too horrible for print) He went out into the garden and burnt his own copy of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF-Tast2Ua8
Wellbran, you have just hit a nerve with me. I have never got over that day the navy surrendered to a few Iranians. For me that was the watershed of the navy as we know it. The RN has become an embarrassment and a source of humiliation to our country. In other threads people have said " what about Kate Nesbit, well I can tell you that when the history books are opened it will be Turney and Batchelor who will be remembered. Kates exploits will fade into the mist of time. How do I know this?. If I were to ask you what sailor won the MM before Kate You wouldnt know would you.
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  #80  
Old 28-02-2011, 01:00
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mandrake079 mandrake079 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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...If I were to ask you what sailor won the MM before Kate You wouldnt know would you.
Was it by any chance AB Milburn of Drake Bn, Royal Naval Division?
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  #81  
Old 28-02-2011, 11:16
INVINCIBLE INVINCIBLE is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

[quote=Scurs;154031]Agreed Nobby...............as FC2 my Action Station was in the TS too, at the height of the Indonesian Confrontation, we used to enter and leave Singapore Naval Base at Defence Stations (or maybe full Action Stations, can't recall)....anyway, always used to reckon that had we hit a mine (the given reason), my chances of escaping lay between nil and very little.
On the plus side, it was a nice air-conditioned compartment, and sitting there twiddling the occasional knob and looking at radar instead of humping 4.5" shells around, highly compensated.

Scurs,

Your experiences most interesting. There seems to be so little in print about the full story of what happened during the Indonesian Confrontation, apart from the Limbang action and the passage of the Lombok Strait.
I was there in Centaur in 1964, but we were never told much about what was going on.What ship were you in? what dates? what patrols did you conduct? did you see any action against Indonesian insurgents? Do hope you can give us a bit more on that distant confrontation.
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  #82  
Old 28-02-2011, 11:44
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Nobby_N Nobby_N is offline
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I can't speak for Scurs, and Blackpool (at least the commission I was in) was not there long enough for people to get the GSM with clasp. It had to be 30 days in Malaysian/Indonesian waters. I'm sure we were not off Suez for 30 days in Bulwark and we got the GSM for that. Anyway, that is not the point: Invincible asks about material in print. There is a book by Nick van der Bijl titled Confrontation: The War with Indonesia 1962-1966 (Pen & Sword, 2007). It is written predominantly from an army point of view, but there are index entries for Royal Navy, Royal Australian Navy and Royal New Zealand Navy and the Royal Malaysian Navy. The sub headings are: ADIZ policing, Far East Fleet, guardships, intelligence gathering, 6th Minesweeper Squadron, Naval Party Kilo, naval task force challenges 12 mile limit, Tawau Assault Group, and transporting of troops, and numerous ships are listed by name from the three navies. Some of the entries are brief, amounting to no more than a mention on one page, but the context tells you why they are there. And those sub-headings may stir some memories. Centaur is mentioned but only to say she was there.

I plead an interest because I made the index for that book.

Cheers - Nobby_N
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Last edited by Nobby_N : 28-02-2011 at 11:55. Reason: addition of short item
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  #83  
Old 28-02-2011, 11:52
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Buttons on my sleeves now I see. Now I won't be able to wipe my nose

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  #84  
Old 28-02-2011, 12:00
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by Nobby_N View Post
Buttons on my sleeves now I see. Now I won't be able to wipe my nose

Nobby_N
Put your shades on standby now ready for the gold braid.

I didn't get a clasp for Borneo either and I was chasing the Grey Ghost [Albion] of the Borneo Coast up and down the coast on an RFA loaded with Ammo.
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  #85  
Old 28-02-2011, 14:37
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Scurs Scurs is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Invincible/Nobby - Well as we didn't qualify for GSM, "only" managing 28 days and not the requisite 30, maybe "height of Indonesian Confrontation" is stretching things a bit!
However, out there we were, patrols we did, even if maybe June 1965 - until it ended (June-July 1966?), more "tail end" than "height".
The 1st commission (1963-65) probably qualified for medal, we 2nd commission didn't!
Ship? Oh.......Leander Class Frigate, HMS AJAX, Leader 24th Escort Group.
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  #86  
Old 28-02-2011, 16:06
INVINCIBLE INVINCIBLE is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

I didn't get a clasp for Borneo either and I was chasing the Grey Ghost [Albion] of the Borneo Coast up and down the coast on an RFA loaded with Ammo.[/quote]

Dave,

Why ever did you not qualify for the Borneo GSM? My 'oppo' in the 'Old Grey Ghost' got one, NPs and RFA personnel qualified for the GSM. Which RFA were you in? Fort Charlotte, Gold Ranger, Eddyrock, Wave Sovereign and Tidereach all spent a long time there. In Centaur we were faithfully supported by Fort Dusquene throughout.
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  #87  
Old 28-02-2011, 16:13
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Fort Rosalie - was told she didn't spend long enough.

Dave H
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  #88  
Old 28-02-2011, 17:53
INVINCIBLE INVINCIBLE is offline
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Fort Rosalie - was told she didn't spend long enough.

Dave H
Dave,

That is a shame because Fort Rosalie is listed along with eleven other RFAs under the details of those which were deployed to Indonesia during the Confrontation as set out in 'The Fourth Force - untold story of the RFA since 1945' by Geoff Puddefoot.
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  #89  
Old 01-03-2011, 16:00
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Johnny07 I think no one should remember any of those people in history, and not least the ranks in charge of that days operation. And you are right the Navy is a shadow of itself. and according to Ex Naval here on the forum that is a good thing, but then you get incidents like that one which throw the "modern" Navy concept into doubt. BTW I am not trying to start a "flame up" here. EG the guy Bachelor was mad as the iranians took his ipod away! oh dear oh dear!
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  #90  
Old 01-03-2011, 20:52
Allan SINCLAIR Allan SINCLAIR is offline
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Red face Re: Modern Navy

I have been watching the series about HMS Manchester and, quite honestly, the whole thing is embarrasing. There is a Leading Hand with a very limited vocabulary and a sort of Able Seaperson who is equally 'dippy'. Even the officers no longer seem to be 'gentlemen'.






'It is upon the Navy, under the good Providence of God that the Wealth, Safety and Strength of the Kingdom do chiefly depend'. (Articles of War, 3rd version, 1661.)

Last edited by Allan SINCLAIR : 01-03-2011 at 20:53. Reason: Capitalization!
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  #91  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:28
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Nobby_N Nobby_N is offline
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Allan - about Manchester, those are my observations too. I think it probably does, just about, give the feel of what the RN is like these days, although as has been said, it is television, and what TV always wants to do is turn it into a soap opera. Is it good TV? that is all they ask.

It is interesting that no senior rates appear. I wonder if they declined the opportunity. The Leading Hand and the AB have grown up on a diet of 'Big Brother' and that is how they are presented. The media are quite cynical about how they present things. Years ago in the first Ark Royal TV series (I didn't see any of it) there were newspaper accounts of crew coming off shore and vomiting as they came over the brow. Many of us have done something like that in our naval careers but, did we want our mums to know all about it? I expect there have been a few red faces on the Manchester as a result of this latest TV series, but I expect 'their Lordships' (but we don't have Lords of the Admiralty anymore do we?) thought it would be a good recruiting wheeze and who knows maybe they were right - there is always a queue of people wanting to be on 'Big Brother'.

Much of what we see and read about is depressing to us, but there is a lot that we don't see, and still there are heroes popping up from among the ordinary squaddies and bootnecks and yes, shoregoing SBAs. There is no reason to think that todays matelots and matelot-esses are any different. Some will be good and others pretty awful. It is a different navy, that's for sure. I think there are shortcomings, particularly in attitudes, in comparison to earlier times, but don't blame the boys and girls at the bottom, blame the decision makers in the MOD and in Parliament. Jan Steer has said the navy started going to pot when they let civvies in. Hidden in that statement there is the truth that it is civvy attitudes to service matters that have caused much of the trouble we think we see.

As my old two-badge EM oppo Parky used to say about civilians in positions of authority: "They don't know, They just don't know!" Somehow we knew what he meant. He was saying that in 1956 by the way.

Nobby_N
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  #92  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:35
Ednamay Ednamay is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Oh for the return of Ganges training and discipline ! ! !

Edna
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  #93  
Old 02-03-2011, 11:11
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Derek Dicker Derek Dicker is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Oh for the return of Ganges training and discipline ! ! !

Edna
Mng Edna, much as I admire your sentiment, I fear it would not be politically correct. Something to do with abuse (called discipline) in my day.


Derek (bunts) number 4 recruitment May 7th 1957. Anson Div class 301, 22 mess
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  #94  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:31
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Nobby_N Nobby_N is offline
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For Edna May - Bring back Ganges??

compare and contrast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htmC__eg8hc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxfjJBJM6SE

I sent the first of those links to my sons who are in their early 30s, just to give them some idea of what their father did - this is what I wrote:
When I joined it was into the electrical branch and I was given a Railway Warrant from London to Fareham. I travelled with a lad who had already done boy’s training in Ganges, but I was nominally in charge of him because I was older. I was a month or 6 weeks off my 18th birthday. In Collingwood we did all the stuff you saw except for the stuff in boats. We climbed a similar mast to them at HMS St Vincent in Gosport. Like in Ganges, everyone had to go past the first platform but not to the very top, going further was voluntary – we didn’t do the ‘Button boy’ thing. We were expected to go up the rigging in just the same way that Patrick O’Brian describes in his Aubrey/Maturin books – you did not go through the lubbers hole on the way up though you could go through it on the way down.. That was it – just the once for us ‘electrical’ ratings. Being electrical and radio we did not do the seamanship training, but the drill was just as tough. And our petty-officers GIs (GI = Gunnery Instructor) were just as tough – funnily enough – we did not think of them as being sadistic. They were toughening us up and instilling instant obedience – that was their job. They shouted at us and our GI had a baton which he would poke in your side if you were slow in learning the drill.

Nobby_N
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Last edited by Nobby_N : 02-03-2011 at 12:32. Reason: re-adjust a name
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  #95  
Old 02-03-2011, 14:03
buster185 buster185 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Wow, I like the second clip but in my day you got DQ's and chucked out for fraternisation in the same bed!! Things have obviously progressed!!
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  #96  
Old 02-03-2011, 14:21
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Default Re: Modern Navy

I like how all that makes you come to be a sailor,....the next course, how to become a diplomat for your country ...of what we were told, even before you went up the brow of a ship.

Unfortunately some of us fell over, and ended up in front of the "jimmys table " first night ashore

cylla
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  #97  
Old 02-03-2011, 15:29
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Scurs Scurs is offline
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Derek (Bunts) - agreed.!

No.1 Recruitment, 7th January 1957, 124 Class, Blake 7 Mess.

Cylla...........well SOME of us I suppose act like Big OD's and "perform" !
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  #98  
Old 02-03-2011, 15:56
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CYLLA CYLLA is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Hi Scurs, i am relating to,when a plane load of J/S and O/D,s joined our first ship in the far flung .....

cylla
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  #99  
Old 02-03-2011, 16:14
Allan SINCLAIR Allan SINCLAIR is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Hello Nobby N

Re: Lack of knowledge by civilians, I think most ex-Servicemen hold them in contempt - usually justifiably.

As for coming off shore and 'mustering one's kit' at the gangway - well, that was a guaranteed stay in the cells on big ships and an empty compartment on a small ship where your mess mates would have to look after you to make sure that you didn't die in your own vomit. If you remember, a good shore going oppo would help you back on board - it was loner's who usually got into trouble.

I was also a Greenie and went to Collingwood (Collingrad as my 'old ships' Polycell calls it) in 1958 and we still did boat bits and bobs and marrying falls and suchlike. Although the POGI's didn'tstand any messing around we were never ever struck or bullied in any way.
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  #100  
Old 02-03-2011, 16:15
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Derek (Bunts) - agreed.!

No.1 Recruitment, 7th January 1957, 124 Class, Blake 7 Mess.

Cylla...........well SOME of us I suppose act like Big OD's and "perform" !
I'm with Derek and Scurs on this one. [What one are we talking about]

17th March 1953, 243 Class, Blake 8 Mess

Dave H
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