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  #51  
Old 15-02-2011, 14:55
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astraltrader astraltrader is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
The modern navy, where did it all go wrong?

I find it hard to believe that firstly you need to ask this question and that secondly you appear to be trying to answer it by unfavourably comparing todays serving men and women with those of a previous era.


"Where did it go wrong??" The Navy has been sold short over the past 40 years by politicians from both major parties who seem to have forgotten how essential it is to maintain a navy at least capable enough to protect our trade and various overseas commitments.


Of course the country can no longer afford to maintain one of the worlds most powerful navies but ask any Naval chief or defence pundit and they will all agree that we should at least have [and still should] make better use out of a never ending list of already paid for equipment planes and ships either scrapped prematurely or flogged off cheaply - again with plenty of life left in them [I could nearly fill a page with examples that once gone will never be replaced again]

It is clear the country is now in serious financial trouble. Huge cuts have to be made but it seems clear to me that we have gone way too far with the decimation of the navy which has been sadly undervalued again by politicians from all the major parties.
We cannot afford to keep cutting an already very depleted navy.

It is far more important to at least have a credible navy than it is wasting our time and money [and brave young lives] instead in Afghanistan and it is far more important than to replace Trident - which we will eventually do in around 5 years time....

Then I could start on how much it has really cost us to be a member of the EU.....


So Johnny 07 there is your answer - it all went wrong in the hands of incompetent politicians.
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  #52  
Old 15-02-2011, 15:03
Mitch Hinde Mitch Hinde is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by astraltrader View Post
I find it hard to believe that firstly you need to ask this question and that secondly you appear to be trying to answer it by unfavourably comparing todays serving men and women with those of a previous era.


"Where did it go wrong??" The Navy has been sold short over the past 40 years by politicians from both major parties who seem to have forgotten how essential it is to maintain a navy at least capable enough to protect our trade and various overseas commitments.


Of course the country can no longer afford to maintain one of the worlds most powerful navies but ask any Naval chief or defence pundit and they will all agree that we should at least have [and still should] make better use out of a never ending list of already paid for equipment planes and ships either scrapped prematurely or flogged off cheaply - again with plenty of life left in them [I could nearly fill a page with examples that once gone will never be replaced again]

It is clear the country is now in serious financial trouble. Huge cuts have to be made but it seems clear to me that we have gone way too far with the decimation of the navy which has been sadly undervalued again by politicians from all the major parties.
We cannot afford to keep cutting an already very depleted navy.

It is far more important to at least have a credible navy than it is wasting our time and money [and brave young lives] instead in Afghanistan and it is far more important than to replace Trident - which we will eventually do in around 5 years time....

Then I could start on how much it has really cost us to be a member of the EU.....


So Johnny 07 there is your answer - it all went wrong in the hands of incompetent politicians.
Hi Terry

Welcome back.
I couldn't agree more. The forefathers of the above incompetent politicians made the same mistakes following WWl and look what followed.

Mitch Hinde
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  #53  
Old 15-02-2011, 15:22
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chris westwood chris westwood is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbenn View Post
I have watched this thread with interest and obseved the different attitudes towards our 'Modern Navy'.

My Dad was a Gunnery Instructor during the 50's/60's and his time I know from what he said was different to those who served during the 2nd world war. His generation saw service in Korea and very proud he was of that.

My time was during the 70's and Dad took great delight in reminding me he spent longer on 'one wave' he served 14 years....me 8 years...so half a wave really.

When I invited him onboard Hms Fife in 1975 he was like a fish out of water, missile systems and the like were alien to him, he was not impressed with my Navy, yet that same Navy re-took the Falklands, there were probably mistakes made just as there were during WW2 and Korea, but non-the less they performed the way they were trained to do.

Having visited some of our modern ships I know it's not the same Navy I served in, but what does come across is that the men and women are just as proud as we were, are trained just as well as we were and I know that when the chips are down they would perform to the best of their abilities.

We now have the subject of females in the Navy and their contributions being called into question, are they capable? well like all walks of life just as capable as men, there was many a shipmate I recall who wouldn't be able to carry an injured colleague, because his physique wasn't sufficient.

I now work in the Ambulance service along-side female paramedics, can they lift a 18st man down stairs, perhaps not, but then can I?
Can they save your life? yes they can, equally as well as male paramedics.

Our Navy will always develope and change from what we know, the strength of character of those that serve will remain the same, it's in our heritage.

Regards
Alan
easily the best post I have ever read on here
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  #54  
Old 15-02-2011, 17:24
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by astraltrader View Post
I find it hard to believe that firstly you need to ask this question and that secondly you appear to be trying to answer it by unfavourably comparing todays serving men and women with those of a previous era.


"Where did it go wrong??" The Navy has been sold short over the past 40 years by politicians from both major parties who seem to have forgotten how essential it is to maintain a navy at least capable enough to protect our trade and various overseas commitments.


Of course the country can no longer afford to maintain one of the worlds most powerful navies but ask any Naval chief or defence pundit and they will all agree that we should at least have [and still should] make better use out of a never ending list of already paid for equipment planes and ships either scrapped prematurely or flogged off cheaply - again with plenty of life left in them [I could nearly fill a page with examples that once gone will never be replaced again]

It is clear the country is now in serious financial trouble. Huge cuts have to be made but it seems clear to me that we have gone way too far with the decimation of the navy which has been sadly undervalued again by politicians from all the major parties.
We cannot afford to keep cutting an already very depleted navy.

It is far more important to at least have a credible navy than it is wasting our time and money [and brave young lives] instead in Afghanistan and it is far more important than to replace Trident - which we will eventually do in around 5 years time....

Then I could start on how much it has really cost us to be a member of the EU.....


So Johnny 07 there is your answer - it all went wrong in the hands of incompetent politicians.
I only asked
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  #55  
Old 15-02-2011, 19:21
buster185 buster185 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Rob, your post # 36:

Quote:
Now, how do I set the DVD recorder again? There's a programme about flogging I'm keen to watch. My wife knows but I'm not going to embarrass myself by asking her. Besides, she's busy shifting a wardrobe.
Just out of interest, is that the setting of the DVD or the flogging??

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Buster
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  #56  
Old 15-02-2011, 22:19
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Rob Hoole Rob Hoole is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by buster185 View Post
Rob, your post # 36:

Just out of interest, is that the setting of the DVD or the flogging??

Regards
Buster
The DVD. She's more interested in buying things than flogging them.
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  #57  
Old 19-02-2011, 23:27
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harry.gibbon harry.gibbon is online now
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
The highlight of a seamans life was going to Paula Tioman to paint ship. He took huge pride in his ships appearance. The banyans there were great as well.

Hey up John, I don't know if she (Paula) owned it, but do you mean Palau Tioman ??

Little h
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  #58  
Old 20-02-2011, 17:09
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Default Re: Modern Navy

We went to Pulau Tioman often and it provided an excellent spot for banyans.
This picture was taken in April 1964 when there in Centaur with RFA Fort Dusquene in company.
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File Type: jpg Pulau Tioman Centaur.jpg (360.2 KB, 45 views)
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  #59  
Old 21-02-2011, 18:47
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by harry.gibbon View Post
Hey up John, I don't know if she (Paula) owned it, but do you mean Palau Tioman ??

Little h
Yes that's what I ment, and you know where I ment. Someone told me they have skyscrapers there now, I did'nt want to know that. It's another place I want to keep in my minds eye.
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  #60  
Old 21-02-2011, 18:53
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by INVINCIBLE View Post
We went to Pulau Tioman often and it provided an excellent spot for banyans.
This picture was taken in April 1964 when there in Centaur with RFA Fort Dusquene in company.
Great photo, move on a couple of years and it would have been an identical photo with the Albion. Go back a couple of years and it would have been Bulwark. I know , I was there when it happened.
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  #61  
Old 21-02-2011, 18:55
Mitch Hinde Mitch Hinde is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Hi

Is the big rock with the ships names and crests on still there or has it been painted over or dynamited so as not to offend the tourists?

Mitch Hinde
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  #62  
Old 21-02-2011, 22:46
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
Yes that's what I ment, and you know where I ment.
John please be assured that I had never heard of the Island, even though I was in Singers for just over 2 years. I have had to Google the location of the Island.

Little h
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  #63  
Old 22-02-2011, 07:47
Buffer Buffer is offline
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Angry Re: Modern Navy

Did anyone see last nights programme on HMS Manchester in the Caribbean. I could not believe my eyes at the pathetic attempts to sink one small GRP boat. First they used the 4.5 inch gun, then small arms and then they resorted to axes. Finally they topped it up with water from fire hoses which resulted in it turning turtle, so they had to use handsaws to cut holes in the hull to let the air out so as it would finally sink. Two pounds of PE4 or Semtex would have taken this boat apart with no problem and saved an awful lot of red faces on behalf of the ships company. As one young rating said " Nelson would have been turning in his grave".
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  #64  
Old 22-02-2011, 12:27
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Default Re: Modern Navy

BZ to HMS Manchester's ship's company whose teamwork, as shown in last night's programme, prevented 20m worth of cocaine from hitting our streets. The GRP launch involved in a separate incident certainly provided a rare opportunity to fire at a realistic target but later events appeared to involve some 'hamming up' for the camera.
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  #65  
Old 22-02-2011, 18:57
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffer View Post
Did anyone see last nights programme on HMS Manchester in the Caribbean. I could not believe my eyes at the pathetic attempts to sink one small GRP boat. First they used the 4.5 inch gun, then small arms and then they resorted to axes. Finally they topped it up with water from fire hoses which resulted in it turning turtle, so they had to use handsaws to cut holes in the hull to let the air out so as it would finally sink. Two pounds of PE4 or Semtex would have taken this boat apart with no problem and saved an awful lot of red faces on behalf of the ships company. As one young rating said " Nelson would have been turning in his grave".
I must say it's a mystery how the RN has survived since some of the grumpy old g*ts on here left!! Let's see if I can make this clear:

It's. A. TV. Show. They. Edit. It.
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  #66  
Old 22-02-2011, 20:34
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Is this young whipper snapper calling us "grumpy old gits" Harry, Rob,Terry, not forgetting my self---him being only a Killick --put him in the brig,how dare he call us "grumpy" and especially "old" gits--let me tell you sir I prefer to be called a "SENIOR CITIZEN" ---how dare he!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #67  
Old 22-02-2011, 20:53
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Default Re: Modern Navy

By the way in response to Omanip(What sort of a name is that!!) the navy state is due to these Univercity educated ar-e holes who are running and bringing the country to its knees with its stupid cuts to our armed forces, most of these so called MPs are millionaires and don`t give a damn to what they are doing by creaming off the navy,army and airforce, I only hope that this country has not to go to war because where are they going to find weapons, and men to fight---the last war WW2 Britain was in a situation where there was high unemployment, it was from here we found the manpower to go to war and women took over the on the farms,factories,buses etc.
These are the "twits" who are building 2 carriers,one to go into "mothball"(laid up)as soon as it comes from the builders and the other to go to sea without aircraft and while they are doing this they are decommissioning perfectly good carriers selling them for scrap not forgetting ships to escort these carriers being laid up awaiting their fate at Portsmouth.

HERE ENDETH THE LESSON.
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  #68  
Old 23-02-2011, 00:07
Mitch Hinde Mitch Hinde is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Hi All

This is going to upset the green party and the tree/bunny huggers.
To my mind Nick Farage didn't go far enough on Question Time when calling for an end to aid to overseas countries that don't need it. He could also have called for an end to the spending of billions and billions of pounds on the building of huge tracts of totally useless wind farms that can never and will never produce anything like the amount of energy required without the continual backup of convential/nuclear power stations, always flashed up and ready to fill the gap created in the grid without the lights going out.
Then we might just have the cash to do something about providing our underfunded armed forces with the equipment they so drastically need.

Rant over.

Mitch Hinde
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  #69  
Old 23-02-2011, 00:50
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harry.gibbon harry.gibbon is online now
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceylon220 View Post
Is this young whipper snapper calling us "grumpy old gits" Harry, Rob,Terry, not forgetting my self---him being only a Killick --put him in the brig,how dare he call us "grumpy" and especially "old" gits--let me tell you sir I prefer to be called a "SENIOR CITIZEN" ---how dare he!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave220,

As one of ye named geezers, I am taking the opportunity of the right of reply. It is Trucial sorry, Crucial to State that, perhaps he meant to describe us as "grumpy old gents". He spent a bit of time in the sun you know.

You may be aware that he joined the BRNC in 1971 and mooched around the Andrew till 82 then, 'O-man' he was oft to another navy Navy in 1984 and that possibly tainted his opinion of folks like us ... venerable folk who see and speak no ill of anyone or any thing.

Little h
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  #70  
Old 23-02-2011, 08:04
Buffer Buffer is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

In reply to Omanips retort about Grumpy Old Gits. I realise it's a TV programme and it's edited, but I stand by what I typed. It was a time consuming operation taking a number of hours to sink one very small craft. This could have been done in less than an hour with a demolition charge and would have saved a few red faces. My son is actually the Chief Chef on Manchester and I support our lads and lasses in the RN 100%. In fact I did 32 years before becoming part of the defence cuts and left in 95, but aged 59 I was asked to return and take up a training job as they were so short of experienced Seaman Specialists.
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  #71  
Old 23-02-2011, 09:21
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Agree totally with the Buffer (always best to agree with the Buffer, makes life much more peaceful)

As an ex-Gunnery rate, I cringed at those efforts to sink one small boat that wasn't even moving!

As a POGI I knew used to say, "Why should Britain tremble"
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  #72  
Old 25-02-2011, 22:00
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Default Re: Modern Navy

I know it's only drill, and there is more to service life than drill, but I have just watched a Passing Out Parade in HMS Raleigh (24/09/2009) on Youtube. They were as good as anything we ever did 55 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBcAk...eature=related

Well, I thought so.

Nobby_N
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  #73  
Old 26-02-2011, 16:41
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Default Re: Modern Navy

This is my home town sea cadets they have been winning drill stuff for many years and they always say the turn out inspection is always won by females...try as they might the boys cannot beat them...but here they are at drill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keRph-yVOBQ
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  #74  
Old 26-02-2011, 19:40
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby_N View Post
I know it's only drill, and there is more to service life than drill, but I have just watched a Passing Out Parade in HMS Raleigh (24/09/2009) on Youtube. They were as good as anything we ever did 55 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBcAk...eature=related

Well, I thought so.

Nobby_N
Nobby, Im really happy that you liked the parade, you must have been proud as one of you relatives was probably taking part. Now I'm going to spoil it by saying that I dont really care much about how they look when performing a drill, what we really want is that they take on Iranian gunboats and protect our people from pirates and generally do things the navy used to do. Who knows maybe those boys and girls at Raleigh are the ones that are going to do that.
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  #75  
Old 26-02-2011, 20:21
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Default Re: Modern Navy

I couldn't agree more Johnny. I felt sick when that happened with the Iranians, (and as I said about the video, it was only a drill). I couldn't imagine that ever happening in days gone by. What made it worse was the behaviour of our people after they were captured.

Would I have been any better? I don't know. I was never in that situation. I know I was scared when we were at action stations off Port Said in 1956. You try not to show it. All I knew was that my action station was the TS, and that is deep inside the ship (Bulwark) and how do we get out if the ship starts going down. Everyone was jumpy - there was an Egyptian E-boat in the middle of the fleet - starshells - it turned out to be the Manxman. That was followed by the Russian/Egyptian Mig fighter, which turned out to be a U.S. Sabre from one of the U.S.Carriers - it hadn't had its IFF switched on. When these things are happening you don't know it's a false alarm until it is seen to be just that.

Coming back to the Iranian business, they have things these days called 'rules of engagement' and they serve to tie our hands from making any immediate robust response. Have you been watching the HMS Manchester stuff? - I have on Youtube. Can you imagine Nelson or Cochrane having to get permission from the Dey of Algiers before they blow one of his corsairs/pirates out of the water? That is effectively what Manchester had to do when they eventually did find a fishing boat running drugs.

Its a strange old world we are living in and I think we have brought it on ourselves.

Nobby
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