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  #26  
Old 12-02-2011, 20:02
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chris westwood chris westwood is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by clevewyn View Post
ceylon220 has a point though. we belong to an age where you gave your seat on the bus, opened doors for, offered to give a hand to if you saw a lady with a heavy case or whatever.

Today you could get a load of abuse for same what with equal rights and so on. I would find it difficult to change my ways after all this time.
you should offer those civilities to anyone who was in difficulty
and your last sentence is nonsense
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  #27  
Old 12-02-2011, 21:08
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Default Re: Modern Navy

I reckon the really old navy died with the demise of sail. My navy died with the demise of steam (when I left) and today we have the new, or 'modern navy'....

Simplistic? Of course, but it does introduce some interesting time lines relative to the changes in technology from an 'Engine Rm rating' perspective....

As to 'Jack'? well, he changed with it as he always has and always will.....

Such is progress...or should I say, time and tide waits for no man....not even 'Jack'...
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2011, 22:43
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Default Re: Modern Navy

My opinion is that the Navy has gone the way of all other aspects of society...ie make it too hard and no one will do it or complete it etc etc like education i look at my kids work and it is easier, no wrong description...more PC. I was looking at youtube clip on the mast manning ceremony by boy seamen at a royal tournament I think it was 1984 (approx) and it was a shadow of its former self so in less than 10yrs after Ganges it was not recogniseable. so that could be a guage of the pace of change from Ganges closing to now.

I also look at the very small policewomen going around now and wonder if they could cope in a violent situation while out on the beat...oh sorry yes they can call for backup now. But also I see many men who are police and wonder if they could hold their own in a situation, so its not just females its just our society. I am not anti female BTW but they have limitations in a physical situation e imagine you are unconcious and your ship is burning and sinking can your female colleague CARRY you to safety??...on the other hand if she was in trouble you would surely carry her out right? But then ships are never on fire now are they? I suppoes thats the theory anyway. OK how about a female fireman....oopps sorry fire FIGHTER.
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  #29  
Old 13-02-2011, 11:20
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by Rob Hoole View Post
As there is ample evidence showing women operating and cleaning out blast furnaces, welding and riveting sheets of metal together and hauling heavy steel ingots around for up to 12 hours a day during WW II, I imagine they would have got on fairly well. But I doubt that's the answer you were looking for.
Quite agree with you Rob,women did a great job in the last great war but from reports I keep getting from old shipmates and one or two of the young lads now serving in the RN from my area they say that in the ships that they served in the women are given the easier tasks to do than the men (ladies before gentlemen again) and they even say that when a woman is brought up in front of the table her punishment is less severe, that is why I said about a woman being on boiler room watch in my day 50s-early 70s would she have stood the heat or would the PO say "here you are love take my position under the draft fan and keep cool"-----we will never know!!!!!
One other thing Rob, I don`t think that I could have served in the Engine Room branch under the command of a woman officer and especially one who had just come from training, I don`t know how other ex RN members feel about this, would loved to hear their comments on the subject.
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  #30  
Old 13-02-2011, 11:43
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by chris westwood View Post
you should offer those civilities to anyone who was in difficulty
and your last sentence is nonsense
I don't know where you live but his last sentence is perfectly true for this area, If you opened a door for a woman up here she would beat you up.
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  #31  
Old 13-02-2011, 11:45
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Default Re: Modern Navy

I have no truck with women at sea, but I must admit I dont like a lot of the ways things are done eg. How ships are cleaned and the messdecks etc. Apparently the dockyard do most of the painting, the old buffers would turn in their graves. I visited the Birmingham a few years back in Hull. She was red with rust. When I asked why I was told it will get done when we get home. Same in one of the messdecks, I asked the same ! Was told the civvy cleaners give it a good clean when we get back. Thats the modern part of the navy I could live without. We did it all ourselves
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  #32  
Old 13-02-2011, 11:57
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Ceylon, A woman couldnt connect a boiler, or blow soot or stand a hard watch on a carriers throttles, it would be physically impossible. They may get by in todays navy but they wouldn't survive the one I was in, not in the ERs and BRs anyway.
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  #33  
Old 13-02-2011, 12:03
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chris westwood chris westwood is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
Ceylon, A woman couldnt connect a boiler, or blow soot or stand a hard watch on a carriers throttles, it would be phisically impossible. They may get by in todays navy but they would'nt survive the one I was in, not in the ERs and BRs anyway.
the same would be true for many if not most men. It's down to the individual and their aptitudes. Although would bet that that there are women who could do the job you describe, but that's irrelevant for the reason you give
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  #34  
Old 13-02-2011, 12:03
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by BIG LES View Post
I have no truck with women at sea,but i must admit i dont like a lot of the ways things are done eg how ships are cleaned and the messdecks ets .Apparently the dockyard do most of the painting the old buffers would turn there graves.i visited the birmingham a few years back in hull she was red with rust when i asked why i was told it will get done when we get home.Same in one of the messdecks i asked the same !was told the civvy cleaners give it agood clean when we get back .that the modern part of the navy i could live without we did it all our selves
The highlight of a seamans life was going to Paula Tioman to paint ship. He took huge pride in his ships appearance. The banyans there were great as well.
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  #35  
Old 13-02-2011, 17:06
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
Ceylon, A woman couldnt connect a boiler, or blow soot or stand a hard watch on a carriers throttles, it would be physically impossible. They may get by in todays navy but they wouldn't survive the one I was in, not in the ERs and BRs anyway.
My sentiments also Johnny,you had the fans blowing on you on most areas in the engine rooms of larger ships ,throttles,evaporators,etc but smaller ships such as frigates had the one fan in the boiler room and that position was always the LHs or the POs perks,the poor old stoker sometimes got a look in when the latter moved away,and the engine room 2 fans blew over the throttle positions again taken up by the ERA and the LH,--now we have done away with the Admirality 3 drum boilers and the engines are the ones we see in Concord may be a lass joining the RN as a member of the engineering branch is`nt such a hot spot area as it was in the days of steam and black smoke and oil ridden bilges---more like being on a working holiday cruise. and along time away from home --3months-6months, hardly time to get to know your buddies!!!!!
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  #36  
Old 13-02-2011, 19:26
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Default Re: Modern Navy

How I miss those days of standing under the blowers on the Engine Room plates and punching sprayers in the Boiler Room. If only we could return to that halcyon era of two-and-a half year foreign-going commissions and the pleasure of seeing your two-year old sprog for the first time when you got back to the UK. Then there was all that mindless chipping, painting and cleaning in all weathers just to keep the troops occupied in over-manned ships.

As for civvy street, there were the pleasures of six-day working weeks with a fortnight off per year, B&W TV, box brownie cameras with the prints ready for collection from Boots on Friday, having to use the phone box on the corner and not being able to afford a car, a good meal in a restaurant or a decent holiday abroad. We were perfectly happy with fish & chips in newspaper and a couple of pints of warm bitter at the weekend.

People have it far too easy these days. Time to turn the clock back, I say!

Now, how do I set the DVD recorder again? There's a programme about flogging I'm keen to watch. My wife knows but I'm not going to embarrass myself by asking her. Besides, she's busy shifting a wardrobe.
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  #37  
Old 13-02-2011, 20:35
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Default Re: Modern Navy

About females in times of war, we do not hear about those fantastic young females who were parachuted in and went undercover behind enemy lines, or worked thier butts off in the munitions factories, so it goes both ways, in my wifes country many females were spies in WW2 and had a lot of guts. also not to mention the Russian Army who had a lot of hard nuts...females.

This is worth a look here
ttp://www.cnac.org/emilscott/phillips01.htm

also as part of this same story I recommernd this book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ghost-Soldie...7629120&sr=8-1

also as far as females go my sister in law was a tough nut she could lay out any bloke and she could open a bottle of beer with her teeth...really! sadly she died aged 39, and I loved her.
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  #38  
Old 14-02-2011, 09:34
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Default Re: Modern Navy

I have watched this thread with interest and obseved the different attitudes towards our 'Modern Navy'.

My Dad was a Gunnery Instructor during the 50's/60's and his time I know from what he said was different to those who served during the 2nd world war. His generation saw service in Korea and very proud he was of that.

My time was during the 70's and Dad took great delight in reminding me he spent longer on 'one wave' he served 14 years....me 8 years...so half a wave really.

When I invited him onboard Hms Fife in 1975 he was like a fish out of water, missile systems and the like were alien to him, he was not impressed with my Navy, yet that same Navy re-took the Falklands, there were probably mistakes made just as there were during WW2 and Korea, but non-the less they performed the way they were trained to do.

Having visited some of our modern ships I know it's not the same Navy I served in, but what does come across is that the men and women are just as proud as we were, are trained just as well as we were and I know that when the chips are down they would perform to the best of their abilities.

We now have the subject of females in the Navy and their contributions being called into question, are they capable? well like all walks of life just as capable as men, there was many a shipmate I recall who wouldn't be able to carry an injured colleague, because his physique wasn't sufficient.

I now work in the Ambulance service along-side female paramedics, can they lift a 18st man down stairs, perhaps not, but then can I?
Can they save your life? yes they can, equally as well as male paramedics.

Our Navy will always develope and change from what we know, the strength of character of those that serve will remain the same, it's in our heritage.

Regards
Alan
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  #39  
Old 14-02-2011, 09:48
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Reckon you have put it in nutshell there Alan. As I have said before - they will deliver provided the PC, Human Rights & Shortsighted Politicians let them get on with the job and the Media could also back off and stop reporting the bullet before it has left the barrel.

Dave H
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  #40  
Old 14-02-2011, 11:22
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
The modern navy, where did it all go wrong?
Its when they let civilians join
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  #41  
Old 14-02-2011, 11:51
jainso31 jainso31 is offline
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Wink Re: Modern Navy

As I am sure you are aware Francis- there is no answer to that!

jainso31
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  #42  
Old 14-02-2011, 12:14
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
The highlight of a seamans life was going to Paula Tioman to paint ship. He took huge pride in his ships appearance. The banyans there were great as well.
Remember it well,especially shark patrol and hanging a few tins of brown ale over the side of the whaler while the lads had a dip.
NOW it seems they go there to go "Clubbing" as the pineapple farm has gone, full of skyscrapers it is. The good CHEAP DAYS they were.
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  #43  
Old 14-02-2011, 12:25
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Alanbenn,

I like how you put this referring to your father visiting the Fife {he was like a fish out of water, missile systems and the like were alien to him,}

The other year i was in pompey at "Meet the Navy "and as we were making our way back to the dockyard gate, my mate who i was with [ex stoker ]spotted H.m.s Campbeltown behind the Semaphorn Tower, so we slipped on board

When we went on board , we were taken into the ops room ,it was like been on board STAR SHIP ENTERPRISE,i had never seen so many computers in one compartment,i even managed to get a piccy taken of me sat at a display.on the ships i had been on ,there was a part of the ops room ,called G.D.R {gun direction room} thats gone by the board these day,s.
And my branch being {gunnery}all these different missile systems ,around the ship,plus the close range weapons ,was a diffrent world.

I left the andrew ,first being trained on "fly plane 5" ,ending up in the seacat console..1960,s/1970,s

Thou our MODERN NAVY , has shrink so much ,theres not that much left of it now
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  #44  
Old 14-02-2011, 13:29
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Cylla, thanks for the comments. I must admit it was a bit of an eye opener for my Dad, like your visit when Dad was in the ops room of the Fife he was agasp!

He was amazed that at the touch of a button we could track aircraft that could be potential targets, and an array of weapons at our disposal to destroy such targets. All this just over 12 years since he left the Navy he knew.....

When I returned to Pompey some years after my time I was shocked at ratings with no creases in their trousers, No more Radio Electrical.....all combined into weapons electrical etc. certainly different to my time but fascinating all the same.

Then when I asked the lad how come they didn't have 7 creases in their trousers he replied I'm not that old!!!! Well neither was I, but I felt as if I were.

I find it hard to come to terms with the demise of our Naval strength in numbers, but I do feel that whatever Navy we have it will always perform the way it has done in the past......long may it be so.

Regards
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  #45  
Old 14-02-2011, 14:07
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Default Re: Modern Navy

During the time i was in the Andrew , H.M.S SCYLLA was the affiliated ship to Aberdeen.We had many a good run ashore there,

Now it,s the the time for H.M.S DIAMOND.


http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Arti...33690?UserKey=

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  #46  
Old 14-02-2011, 19:20
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by rimbo View Post
Remember it well,especially shark patrol and hanging a few tins of brown ale over the side of the whaler while the lads had a dip.
NOW it seems they go there to go "Clubbing" as the pineapple farm has gone, full of skyscrapers it is. The good CHEAP DAYS they were.
Skyscrapers on Paula Tioman, Oh no.
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  #47  
Old 14-02-2011, 23:39
RonHowell RonHowell is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Just watched HMS Manchester on Channel 5, a Bra hanging in the Messdeck, Bar-B-Q in pirate rig on the forcastle, skipper having beer bets with the bridge crew, yup the Navy has changed since the 50's and 60's.

Ron
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  #48  
Old 15-02-2011, 09:25
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Default Re: Modern Navy

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Originally Posted by RonHowell View Post
Just watched HMS Manchester on Channel 5, a Bra hanging in the Messdeck, Bar-B-Q in pirate rig on the forcastle, skipper having beer bets with the bridge crew, yup the Navy has changed since the 50's and 60's.

Ron
Yes I saw that too: in context. The bra was hanging up to tdry because the ships laundry was shut down; the BBQ was a fun way of using up frozen food that would otherwise have been ditched due to the freezer problem; the 'skipper'* was betting he'd spot the target first - and he did.


*Since we are fond of semantics on this board (see the 'HMS' debate) Her Majesty's Ships are commanded by the Captain, whaterver his or her rank.
Fishing smacks have 'skippers'.
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  #49  
Old 15-02-2011, 11:55
RonHowell RonHowell is offline
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Whilst watching the programme I thought how much Naval lives have changed since the 50's/60's whilst doing the same job. The Navy have shaken off the shackles of pre-war disipline and the work place has become more friendly yet the disipline is still there with less of an emphisis on it. I like the way women have merged into life on a warship yet when it was first suggested it was shock horror from the old salts.
If you want my opinion the Navy changed when the last tot was supped, it became a profession, (Oh yes, don't they look sooooo young!!!!!)

Ron
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  #50  
Old 15-02-2011, 13:38
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Default Re: Modern Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonHowell View Post
Just watched HMS Manchester on Channel 5, a Bra hanging in the Messdeck, Bar-B-Q in pirate rig on the forcastle, skipper having beer bets with the bridge crew, yup the Navy has changed since the 50's and 60's.

Ron
compare my photo of electrical's messdeck cleared for Saturday morning Captain's rounds in the thread:
HMS Blackpool: 2nd RN Commission 1962-63

While getting ready for that we would be listening to 'Children's Choice' and singing along: There was I, digging this hole... and hop and skip, hop and skip, over the rickety rackety bridge..... like a bunch of silly sailors


John (Nobby_N)
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