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  #1  
Old 19-03-2010, 09:35
Linton Linton is offline
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Default HM Submarine P311

Does anybody have any information regarding HMS P311 and her loss in Operation Principal?
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  #2  
Old 19-03-2010, 14:09
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Polycell Polycell is offline
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Default Re: HMS P311

T group3
Type Patrol
P311 Unnamed
Builder Vickers - Arm.Barrow
Yard No 811
Laid down date 25-Apr-41
Launch date 5-Mar-42
Completed date 7-Aug-42
No more date 8-Jan-43


ex P91and ex Tutankhamen Mined north of Corsica on or about 8 Jan 1943.
Any good?
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  #3  
Old 19-03-2010, 14:37
Linton Linton is offline
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Default Re: HMS P311

Fred,thank you for that.I believe the target for her chariots were a couple of cruisers in Madellana,Sardinia so I am surprised that you list her as being lost off Corsica.
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  #4  
Old 19-03-2010, 15:56
dennis a feary dennis a feary is offline
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Default Re: HMS P311

LINTON, here crew list of lost of P.311 ;

H M SUBMARINE P.311 EX-TUTANKAMEN EX-P.91 08 JANUARY 1943
Able Seaman Alfred Stanley NEWTON D/SSX 13847
Petty Officer Telegraphist Andrew ADAMS D/JX 147935
Able Seaman Arthur KEY P/JX 275312
Chief Stoker Arthur James SQUIRE D/KX 75929
Chief Petty Officer Arthur Stephen Kingston LEE D S M P/J 113443
Able Seaman Bernard CROSS C/JX 157739
Able Seaman Bernard TREVETHAN P/JX 149522
Telegraphist Bernard George CHEESEMAN C/JX 236264
Leading Seaman Bertie George Sidney RICKWOOD P/SSX 25205
Lieutenant Cecil BUCKLEY
Petty Officer Cecil Ernest CARR C/JX 144742
Able Seaman Cecil William EVANS P/JX 164117
Able Seaman Charles Edward William BROCK D/JX 138882
Leading Stoker Charles Henri VOKINS P/KX 85119
Petty Officer Christopher IDDIOLS C/J 100591
Able Seaman Clarence Howard RUDGE P/JX 276519
Chief Engine Room Artificer Cyril KIMBERLEY D/M 38795
Able Seaman Desmond Arthur Jack FELTHAM P/SSX 32278
Ordinary Seaman Donald Barry BENNETT D/JX 305625
ERA4 Edmund George HUNT C/MX 77300
Leading Cook (S) Geoffrey Leonard SKIPPON D/MX 69037
Able Seaman George LORD D/JX 287256
Lieutenant Guy STRETTON-SMITH
Stoker 1st Class Harry Herbert BLACKWELL P/KX 132332
Leading Stoker Henry Charles SHORT P/KX 97695
Stoker 1st Class Henry Reginald FOXON P/KX 114941
Lieutenant Jack SARGENT
Able Seaman James CLARK C/SSX 23951
Petty Officer Steward James Crisp KING MiD P/LX22336
Leading Telegraphist James Malcolm BROWN P/JX 139969
Leading Telegraphist Jim LORD D/JX 161659
Stoker 1st Class John GEE D/SKX 1266
Petty Officer Stoker John McCLURE P/KX 80404
Leading Telegraphist John MEYERHUBER P/JX 155251
Lieutenant (E) John Hudson GORDON
Electrical Artificer 4th Class John Leslie LYTH P/MX 66284
Stoker 2nd Class John Norbert GRIFFITHS D/KX 144769
Petty Officer Stoker John Vernon MILLIGAN P/KX 86292
Leading Seaman John William REDMAN C/JX 132535
Able Seaman Leonard AUTY P/JX 237486
Stoker 1st Class Matthew QUINN D/SKX 1238
Petty Officer Stoker Patrick John DONOHUE P/KX 84220
Able Seaman Paul MAPPLEBECK R/JX 180968
ERA3 Percival Leo James DOWN D/MX 53618
ERA4 Reginald Charles William MARTIN P/MX 55884
Ordinary Seaman Richard RIBBANDS P/JX 338299
Commander Richard Douglas CAYLEY D S O and 2 bars
Lieutenant Richard Hele Spencer SILVER
Able Seaman Robert Warner CLARKE P/JX 321879
Able Seaman Robert William JOHNS D/SSX 21077
Stoker 1st Class Ronald William Buller PRIDHAM D/KX 145916
Yeoman of Signals Thomas Harold MOON D S M C/JX 133998
Stoker 1st Class Thomas Neil McSHANE P/KX 130669
Stoker 1st Class Thomas William BULFORD P/KX 88120
Stoker 1st Class Thomas William FRENCH C/KX 95964
Ordinary Seaman Walter McLEAN P/JX 362264
Stoker 1st Class Wilfred BRUCE C/KX 118719
Stoker 1st Class Wilfred FOUNDLING C/KX 132645
Able Seaman William COONEY D/SSX 28081
Petty Officer William Edward DYE C/JX 126605
Able Seaman William Frank SUTHERLAND C/SSX 23885
Able Seaman William Frederick NESBITT C/J 99511
Able Seaman William Henry BURTON P/SSX 22991
Lieutenant Ian Norman MACRAE
Seaman Robert ANDERSON D/X 18907

There were also Charioteers lost of which more later.

Sadsac

Last edited by dennis a feary : 19-03-2010 at 16:22.
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  #5  
Old 19-03-2010, 16:30
dennis a feary dennis a feary is offline
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Default Re: HMS P311

LINTON, here are some of the Charioteers lost in Op Princpal P.311 ;

TREVETHAN BERNARD AB P/JX 149522 NE RN SM P.311
08.01.43 X 23 PORTSMOUTH 75 - 3 PORTSMOUTH 9 - 678
Son of Edward and Fanny Trevethan, of Stoughton, Surrey.
Lost in Chariots December 1942. In some records as Trevethian.
Lost when H.M. Submarine was mined in Straits of Bonifacio.
Commemorated on Cairn in Loch Cairnbawn, Scotland.

GOSS GEORGE GILBERT S/LT NE NE RNVR SM P.311
08.01.43 X NE C PORTSMOUTH 80 - 1 PORTSMOUTH 4 - 261
Son of Arthur and Mary Agnes Goss, of Herne Hill, London.
Lost in Chariots.
Lost when H.M. Submarine "P.311" was mined in Straits of Bonifacio.
Commemorated on Cairn in Loch Cairnbawn, Scotland.

BONNELL CHARLES ERNEST LT NE DSC RCNVR SM P.311
08.01.43 X 33 B C HALIFAX M CANADA PANEL 9 GLR 44
Husband of Eleanor Bonnell, of Holland Landing, Ontario. Halifax Memorial, Nova Scotia, Canada ; panel 9.
The Memorial is in Nova Scotia's capital, erected in Point Pleasant Park, and is in rememberance of those lost at sea. The monument is a Cross of Sacrifice 12 metres high, and is visible on approach to Halifax Harbour.
Lost on Submarine Service in Chariots.
Lost when H.M. Submarine "P.311" was mined in Straits of Bonifacio.
Operation `Principal'.
Commemorated on Cairn in Loch Cairnbawn, Scotland.
Not in Memorial Register Book.

KERR KENNETH STEWART LT 156102 NE
ROYAL SCOTS SM P.311 31.12.42 X 08.01.43 NE RNSM
Brookwood Memorial, Surrey.Grave Ref ; Panel 8 Column 3'
The Brookwood Memorial stands within Brookwood Military Cemetery.
Brookwood is 30 miles from London (M3 to Bagshot and then A322).
Beneath the Sea ; Warren & Benson - D.A. Feary.
Lost in Operation `Principal' in H.M. Submarine "P.311".
Mined in Straits of Bonifacio.
Commemorated on Cairn in Loch Cairnbawn, Scotland.
Named as `Jock' by "The Chariots Trust".

More later. Note ; Mined in Straits of Bonifacio !!

Sadsac
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  #6  
Old 19-03-2010, 16:48
Linton Linton is offline
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Default Re: HMS P311

The location of the sinking is interesting as the map I have seen of minefield dispositions in this area only shows fields to the east of the two islands.
The map I believe came from an Italian book -Ufficio Storica MMI : LA GUERRA DI MINE 1966 .I have never seen this book,and there may be further maps showing fields in the west. Does anybody have a copy of this book and which cruisers were P311s target?
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  #7  
Old 03-12-2010, 15:12
RO8 RO8 is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Gentlemen

The two lads in this photo are AB Ivor Stowe (L) and Jack Meyerhuber (R)

Jack, as you are aware from the casualty roll kindly posted above, never surfaced with the P311. Ivor died three years ago, having served between 1937 and 1954. Both men were from Leeds.

With Respect
Dave

ivor stowe and jack meyerhuber.jpg
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2010, 12:55
julie willis julie willis is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

hi
love the photo
jack meyerhuber was my step grandads cousin
thanks
julie
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  #9  
Old 06-12-2010, 14:19
peter schofield peter schofield is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

The Times, Friday, Mar 12, 1943; pg. 4; Issue 49492; col G
Submarine P311 Presumed Lost Commander Cayley's Fine Record


The Board of Admiralty regrets to announce the loss of submarine P311 (Commander Richard Douglas Cayley DSO RN) is overdue and must be presumed lost. The next-of-kin have been informed.

Commander Cayley won the DSO and two bars and as one of the outstanding captains of this war. His name will always be associated with HM Submarine Upmost which sunk 69,000 tons of axis shipping in 15 months while he was serving in her. He was 34. The loss of Utmost was announced in January. Commander Cayley had for some months previously been in command of P311.

One of Utmost’s outstanding successes occurred on the night of 21 November 1941. Commander Carey sighted three Italian cruisers steaming at 20 knots escorted by destroyers. He attacked on the surface firing his torpedoes at a range of nearly a mile. He saw the flash of one torpedo hitting a cruiser just abaft the foremost funnel. Immediately after a great red flame leaped more than 200ft from the stricken ship, the submarine dived to the accompaniment of a violent explosion followed by breaking-up noises. In a counter attack which followed 84 depth charges were dropped but the submarine escaped undamaged.
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  #10  
Old 06-12-2010, 17:09
RO8 RO8 is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Quote:
Originally Posted by julie willis View Post
hi
love the photo
jack meyerhuber was my step grandads cousin
thanks
julie

Hi Julie

Thank you for posting. The photo was taken c. 1940 in the mill yard of William Walker (Dyers), Kirkstall Road, Leeds. I am no longer active on the Great War Forum, but I was in touch with a relative of John (Jackie) Meyerhuber over there. The family lived on the Rosebanks area quite near to the mill where Ivor's father was boilerman/caretaker. The Leodis Database hold a number of photographs of the Kirkstall Road/ Rosebanks area.

http://www.leodis.org/

Peter, thanks for the additional information on Commander Cayley

Regards to Both
Dave

Last edited by RO8 : 06-12-2010 at 17:44.
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  #11  
Old 07-01-2011, 18:15
julie willis julie willis is offline
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Smile Re: HM Submarine P311

Quote:
Originally Posted by RO8 View Post
Hi Julie

Thank you for posting. The photo was taken c. 1940 in the mill yard of William Walker (Dyers), Kirkstall Road, Leeds. I am no longer active on the Great War Forum, but I was in touch with a relative of John (Jackie) Meyerhuber over there. The family lived on the Rosebanks area quite near to the mill where Ivor's father was boilerman/caretaker. The Leodis Database hold a number of photographs of the Kirkstall Road/ Rosebanks area.

http://www.leodis.org/

Peter, thanks for the additional information on Commander Cayley

Regards to Both
Dave
hi dave thanks for replying
just wondering which relative you were in touch with
a few years ago me and my step grandad were talking about our family trees --we never got around to doing them as sadly he died
i started on mine and then thought i would have a go at doing his --it has turned out to be quite interesting
his only surviving brother is very interested in this too so i am going to print off the photo of john meyerhuber and send him it
john or jackie meyerhuber was his first cousin -- he does remember him and his parents
thanks again
best wishes
julie
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  #12  
Old 08-01-2011, 07:55
dennis a feary dennis a feary is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Submarine Service of LtCdr Caylay ;

CAYLEY. RICHARD DOUGLAS. DSO & 2 BARS. CDR. 5. 5.30.
DOB ; 6.10.07.
H.49. 5. 1.32. TO 21. 7.33. 1ST LIEUT.
PANDORA. 1.11.34. MEDWAY.
C.O.Q.C. 26. 4.37. DOLPHIN.
SUNFISH. C.O. 20. 8.37. DOLPHIN.
GENERAL SERVICE. 13. 8.38. ROYAL SOV.
C.O.Rq.C. 26. 3.40. DOLPHIN.
SPARE S/M. C.O. D.T.B.R. MEDWAY.
C.O.R.C. 26. 3.40. DOLPHIN.
PARTHIAN. C.O. 8. 7.40. MEDWAY.
TEMPORARY. 16. 8.40.
UTMOST. C.O. 31. 1.41. MEDWAY.
UTMOST. C.O. 1. 9.41. TALBOT.
F.S.L. 5. 4.42. DOLPHIN.
ADDL. 26. 5.42. DOLPHIN.
P.311. 8. 6.42. DOLPHIN.
LOST IN P.311. 2. 1.43.
S/LT. 1. 2.29.
LIEUT. 1. 8.31.
LT. CDR. 1. 8.39.
CDR. 30. 6.42.
REF ; BRITISH SUBMARINES 167/9, 170, 200-3 (UTMOST P.311).

Sadsac
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  #13  
Old 08-01-2011, 16:22
Linton Linton is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Dick Cayley was famous for his harmonic playing.
I have only seen one photograph of P311 and that was without the chariot containers.Does anybody have any photographs which show detailss of the containers and also how were the chariots launched?
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  #14  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:16
dennis a feary dennis a feary is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Linton, As far as I can recollect, after trying to launch the Chariots by hand it was then done by trimming down the boat so as to float off the chariots.
Will try to dig out details `as proof'.

Sadsac
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  #15  
Old 09-01-2011, 17:06
Linton Linton is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Looking forward to seeing it Dennis.
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  #16  
Old 30-05-2011, 23:56
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MaggieRedhead MaggieRedhead is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

[quote=RO8;141534] Gentlemen
The two lads in this photo are AB Ivor Stowe (L) and Jack Meyerhuber (R)
Jack, as you are aware from the casualty roll kindly posted above, never surfaced with the P311.
Ivor died three years ago, having served between 1937 and 1954. Both men were from Leeds.
With Respect Dave

Quote:
hi love the photo, jack meyerhuber was my step grandads cousin, thanks - julie


I was amazed when I saw John (Jack) Meyerhuber's name and picture here!
I have the letter sent to his parents after the War, telling them in more detail what happened.
The news affected his Mother very badly, she spent the rest of her life in a mental institution.
His Father Jack married my ex-mother-in-law in Leeds in 1969 or 1970. I was at the wedding.
His Dad spoke about Jack so much....
My son's second name is John in memory of him.


Last edited by MaggieRedhead : 31-05-2011 at 00:08.
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  #17  
Old 31-05-2011, 06:09
dennis a feary dennis a feary is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Hello Maggie & welcome. Just seen your posting re Jack & P.311.
Find here the Submarine Service Card of L.Telegraphist Meyerhuber ;

MEYERHUBER JOHN LDG TEL P/JX 155251 NE RN
SM P.311 08.01.43 X 20 140422 C
PORTSMOUTH 77 - 1 PORTSMOUTH 7 - 457
Son of John and Agnes Meyerhuber, of Leeds, Yorks.

HMS MAIDSTONE.

Joined Submarines ; 24 July 1940.
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  #18  
Old 31-05-2011, 06:13
dennis a feary dennis a feary is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Hello Maggie & welcome. Just seen your posting re Jack & P.311.
Find here the Submarine Service Card of L.Telegraphist Meyerhuber ;

MEYERHUBER JOHN LDG TEL P/JX 155251 NE RN
SM P.311 08.01.43 X 20 140422 C
PORTSMOUTH 77 - 1 PORTSMOUTH 7 - 457
Son of John and Agnes Meyerhuber, of Leeds, Yorks.

HMS MAIDSTONE.

Joined Submarines ; 24 July 1940

Sadsac
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  #19  
Old 31-05-2011, 14:09
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MaggieRedhead MaggieRedhead is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis a feary View Post
Hello Maggie & welcome. Just seen your posting re Jack & P.311.
Find here the Submarine Service Card of L.Telegraphist Meyerhuber ;
Thankyou Dennis.
As soon as I find the letter from the War Office to his parents I will scan and post it.
Unfortunately someone covered it in adhesive tape so it deteriorated, still legible though.

His Dad told us Jack felt he had more to prove because of his German name.
He took a lot of flack because of it, not all of it good-natured.
I have seen their name also as Meyer-Huber.

His Dad was one of the kindest people I knew, and his manners were impeccable.....a Yorkshire gentleman.
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  #20  
Old 31-05-2011, 16:29
dennis a feary dennis a feary is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Maggie - few details re P.311 ;
Awards were given to these lost of the crew ;
CAYLEY Richard Douglas LtCdr DSO for service HMS/m UTMOST
LEE Arthur Stephen K P/J 113443 PO DSM service HMS/m UTMOST
MOON Thomas Harold C/JX 133998 YeoSigs DSM service HMS/m UTMOST
KING James Crisp P/LX 22336 L.Stew MID service HMS/m TUNA

LOGS of P.311 are contained in PRO/NA files ADM 173 / ????
17481 August 1942
17482 September 1942
17483 October 1942
Logs are mainly for navigation, but do sometimes give other info of interest.

Sadly HMS/m UTMOST was herself lost 25 November 1942

RESURGAM

Sadsac
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  #21  
Old 31-05-2011, 18:37
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

A picture of P311 on completion.
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File Type: jpg HMS P311-1TB-ON COMPLETION.jpg (307.6 KB, 173 views)
__________________
Best wishes,
Terry/Exeter. UK



HMS BADSWORTH [HUNT CLASS DESTROYER]
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  #22  
Old 31-05-2011, 18:57
Linton Linton is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

The loss of P311 remains a mystery and coincidentally with Turbulent may have been lost in the same area.Cayley and Linton were both experienced submariners but I would imagine that P311 with the canisters for the chariots would have been an unwieldly boat. The information available to researchers regarding P311 is negligable and I would look at the movements of his previous command Utmost to see if he had ever operated around the coast of Sardinia to try and ascertain his probable course of approach.
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  #23  
Old 01-06-2011, 02:05
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

This topic is still another one that I knew nothing about before reading it. Here's some stuff I'd managed to find that might be useful to anyone with gonads big enough to get the facts on the P311.

P311 Wreck Site Link:
http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?16154

Quotes from three sailors regarding sea conditions of the Strait of Bonafacio:
"Apart from the National Park of the Maddalenas, with lots of anchorages, there's Golfo Arzachena and Cannigione, Bonifacio itself, the Costa Azzura - far more select than the Cote d'Azur - and Palau, with one of the best restaurants in Sardinia."

"Probably my worst ever sailing experience was in the Straits of Bonifacio in a near gale and my father, who ran MTBs in the Med during the war, described them as one of the most dangerous stretches of water in the world."

"The wind outside, coming from the Gulf of Lions (NW) direction, will funnel as it enters the straight, building up considerably."

Extract from an geologic assessment of the area. Perusal of a map showed many mesas. Assessment #2 above is on the money; Linton is right in trying to acertain the level of knowledge of the area of the Captain of the P311. This area is a suicide waiting to happen without exact knowledge of area and position.:
Waves and seabed currents are driven by the prevailing northwest and northeast winds. For both wind directions, higher values for the seabed current velocity, associated with wind-storm events, were detected in shallower sectors and along an east–west-oriented belt that connects the western Mediterranean and the Tyrrhenian Seas.

The sediments range from sand to gravel and show a mixed biogenic carbonate/siliciclastic composition. This is due to the carbonate production associated with benthic ecosystems and the mixing of modern carbonate with relict sediments.

Biogenic gravelly sands were found in association with Posidonia oceanica seagrass meadows and extended down to the circalittoral zone outside the deeper boundary of the meadows. This sedimentary facies was derived from the modern carbonate production associated with the P. oceanica ecosystem. Sediments collected outside the deeper limit of the meadows were identified as sediments deposited during the stand of the meadows at a deeper level during lower sea level conditions.

Maėrl (free-living calcareous red algae) beds are the main carbonate factory and are mainly located at the top of the rocky plateaus (at 50–55 m) formed by the outcropping of the bedrock. Downward, the increased currents at the seabed level in the east–west-oriented belt, which connects the western Mediterranean and the Tyrrhenian Seas, limit the extension of this carbonate factory. This results in a mixed sedimentary facies composed of biogenic carbonate and relict siliciclastic sandy gravel.

Compared to other Mediterranean shelves, the strait of Bonifacio is characterized by a distinct oceanographic setting. This is due to the connection between two basins. The currents at the seabed play a crucial role in controlling the distribution of the carbonate factories.
Regards

Edit: Operation Principal:
P311 was scheduled to attack targets at La Maddalena,Latitude: 41° 12' 48" N Longitude: 9° 24' 53" E,off the northeast coast of Sardinia, while the other two submarines involved in the operation headed for the coast of Sicily near Palermo in a Force 5 wind. P311, carrying 3 Chariots and 10 Charioteers left Marsamxett on Malta; the submarine struck a naval mine near Sardinia, Friday, January 8,1943 and sank with all hands.

In 1804, the fleet of British Admiral Horatio Nelson took shelter in the Port of La Maddalena, establishing a naval base there.

Last edited by Hank : 01-06-2011 at 02:50. Reason: Addendum
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2011, 14:10
linux linux is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

These three colour photographs of P311 close-up are from the IWM website.

By the way, why is the name listed as ex-Tutankhamen? My understanding is that the name Tutankhamen was provisional and had not yet been formally assigned at the time of her loss.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TR_000526.jpg (148.9 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg TR_000532.jpg (144.7 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg TR_000540.jpg (158.9 KB, 61 views)
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  #25  
Old 02-06-2011, 23:36
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MaggieRedhead MaggieRedhead is offline
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Default Re: HM Submarine P311

Quote:
Originally Posted by linux View Post

By the way, why is the name listed as ex-Tutankhamen? My understanding is that the name Tutankhamen was provisional and had not yet been formally assigned at the time of her loss.
Got the following from http://www.qwiki.com/q/#!/HMS_P311:

"HMS P311 was a T-class submarine of the Royal Navy, the only boat of her class never to be given a name. She was to have received the name Tutankhamen but was lost before this was formally done. P311 was a Group 3 T-class boat built by Vickers-Armstrong at Barrow-in-Furness and commissioned on March 5, 1942 under the command of Lieutenant R.D. Cayley. She was one of only two T-class submarines completed without an Oerlikon 20 mm anti-aircraft gun, the other being HMS Trespasser"

Apparently they had already made the Ship's Plaque, I have been trying to decipher the motto,
having done 6 years of Latin, but the only clear word is "Rex" (King).

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