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  #126  
Old 07-01-2011, 11:22
INVINCIBLE INVINCIBLE is offline
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest.

Last night was only an opener.
The real test will be tonight when they portray the incredible events which took place after the sinking - events which were to be brought up in the war crimes trial of Grand Admiral Doenitz at the end of the war, with the intervention of Admiral Nimitz's admision of orders to American submarine commanders in the Pacific War.
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  #127  
Old 07-01-2011, 11:26
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Default SS Lakonia

I missed the first part of the BBC film , The sinking of the Lakonia.

From what I did see I gather that she was an under armed Q ship or just a merchant man with guns.

I did not recognise some of the uniforms of the officers, naval and army, especially the chap with chevron shoulder bars.

I am sure that those who saw the beginning will enlighten me.

Paddy
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  #128  
Old 07-01-2011, 13:46
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INVINCIBLE View Post
Last night was only an opener.
The real test will be tonight when they portray the incredible events which took place after the sinking - events which were to be brought up in the war crimes trial of Grand Admiral Doenitz at the end of the war, with the intervention of Admiral Nimitz's admision of orders to American submarine commanders in the Pacific War.
I agree Clive
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  #129  
Old 07-01-2011, 14:01
ekd
 
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest.

I was puzzled by the guy with his M(E)1 badge, sewn on upside down?.
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  #130  
Old 07-01-2011, 14:34
Mitch Hinde Mitch Hinde is offline
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris westwood View Post
I was disappointed with part one of laconia.
It seemed like Titanic meets Das Boot.

It only really got going as a piece of drama after the sinking. There's a future for the lad who played the U Boat captain as a David Beckham lookalike.
Bleasdale has done far better.
Hi Chris

I agree with you, which in itself is unusual.
Did we really need violent guards down in the hold. It added absolutely nothing to the story. It was spoiled by over dramatisation for me.
Hope the second part is better.

Mitch Hinde
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  #131  
Old 07-01-2011, 18:31
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Hinde View Post
Hi Chris

I agree with you, which in itself is unusual.
Did we really need violent guards down in the hold. It added absolutely nothing to the story. It was spoiled by over dramatisation for me.
Hope the second part is better.

Mitch Hinde

I think thgat wouild be valid if the prisoners weren't being mistreated.
on the upper deck there was concert parties, cheap sex, snobbery and meat pie.
by contrast there was stuff going on that was questionable.
Some of the period detail was offside, but I decided to ignore that because my interest was in the story and the drama itself.
However I couldn't help but notice that Brian Cox was eating what looked like ASDA wafer thin ham, which lucky them, didn't exist then.
I think the concluding episode will be much better, because it's character and plot led.
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  #132  
Old 07-01-2011, 18:55
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

For my money dramatisations for TV or Screen will always be embellished to hold the interest of the viewer. It is only when the viewers have experience or knowledge of the subject involved that the nit picking [and I am not being critical of anyone's observations]. begins.

I am, as many others must be, confused by the badges of rank being displayed throughout this programme. But what is most important is that the story is told.

I am personally looking forward to Saturday night when there is a programme devoted to the accounts of the survivors of the Laconia.

Another aspect which intrigues me is the decision of the U Boat skipper who goes against rulings of the Reich Regime and elects to uphold the code of seafarers.

Dave H
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  #133  
Old 07-01-2011, 19:25
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ivorthediver ivorthediver is offline
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hutson View Post
For my money dramatisations for TV or Screen will always be embellished to hold the interest of the viewer. It is only when the viewers have experience or knowledge of the subject involved that the nit picking [and I am not being critical of anyone's observations]. begins.

I am, as many others must be, confused by the badges of rank being displayed throughout this programme. But what is most important is that the story is told.

I am personally looking forward to Saturday night when there is a programme devoted to the accounts of the survivors of the Laconia.

Another aspect which intrigues me is the decision of the U Boat skipper who goes against rulings of the Reich Regime and elects to uphold the code of seafarers.

Dave H
Good point there Dave .........I find that points like that become clearer as the plot unfolds ...lets hope this is the case here....
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  #134  
Old 07-01-2011, 22:12
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hutson View Post
For my money dramatisations for TV or Screen will always be embellished to hold the interest of the viewer. It is only when the viewers have experience or knowledge of the subject involved that the nit picking [and I am not being critical of anyone's observations]. begins.

I am, as many others must be, confused by the badges of rank being displayed throughout this programme. But what is most important is that the story is told.

I am personally looking forward to Saturday night when there is a programme devoted to the accounts of the survivors of the Laconia.

Another aspect which intrigues me is the decision of the U Boat skipper who goes against rulings of the Reich Regime and elects to uphold the code of seafarers.

Dave H
good call and thanks for the heads up about the saturday programme
thoroughly absorbed by the second episode.
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  #135  
Old 07-01-2011, 22:53
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris westwood View Post
thoroughly absorbed by the second episode.

Really Chris .... thoroughly!!! ... how then did you manage to break your 'absorbtion' at 2212 (whilst the programme was still running) to make the posting

Good job you weren't a matelot on watch ... so easily distracted???


Little h
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  #136  
Old 07-01-2011, 23:04
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

I dont suppose anyone happens to know if there are plans to release this on DVD or to show it internationally - its just some Non-British people (not from this site though) have asked me if I know anything!
Thanks
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  #137  
Old 07-01-2011, 23:07
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Nice one Harry. I watched it, and immediately went back on line to see the raves about it; but alas!...... I noticed the post, and time, and thought it unusual too!

Never mind, he is probably a Bradford Bulls supporter, and and quite used to leaving early!

But on a serious note, I was extremely dissapointed with it, overall.
O.K. It was a fair bit of drama for those who did'nt know the facts, but I thought it was a little bit light for a Bleasedale score.

Anyway, everyone to their own! Thank God.
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  #138  
Old 08-01-2011, 08:30
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry.gibbon View Post
Really Chris .... thoroughly!!! ... how then did you manage to break your 'absorbtion' at 2212 (whilst the programme was still running) to make the posting

Good job you weren't a matelot on watch ... so easily distracted???


Little h
I can multi task and the show was nearly over.
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  #139  
Old 08-01-2011, 11:19
INVINCIBLE INVINCIBLE is offline
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

It was visually stunning and actually covered the essential parts of the story pretty well. The main reason for the importance of the incident was the eventual order by Doenitz, at the behest of Hitler to cease all humanitarian efforts to assist survivors. This led to the accusation of issuing an order to murder innocent civilians. When he was prosecuted on this point at the Nuremberg trials, he was only saved by Admiral Nimitz’s affidavit that he had issued similar orders to American submariners in the Pacific. The U-boat (U-156) looked realistic – anybody know where the makers got the boat from? A little disappointing to notice incorrect uniforms and the fact that some of the RN officers were wearing their shoulder straps the wrong way round (‘going astern’) and would have been fined a round of drinks!
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  #140  
Old 08-01-2011, 16:35
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekd View Post
Nice one Harry. I watched it, and immediately went back on line to see the raves about it; but alas!...... I noticed the post, and time, and thought it unusual too!

Never mind, he is probably a Bradford Bulls supporter, and and quite used to leaving early!

But on a serious note, I was extremely dissapointed with it, overall.
O.K. It was a fair bit of drama for those who did'nt know the facts, but I thought it was a little bit light for a Bleasedale score.

Anyway, everyone to their own! Thank God.
featherstone rovers since you mention it!
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  #141  
Old 08-01-2011, 20:43
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ivorthediver ivorthediver is offline
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Thoroughly enjoyed that and thought that the storey line was handled well given that it was a subject that has caused many arguments since the event occurred .
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  #142  
Old 08-01-2011, 20:47
ekd
 
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

I thought the Laconia 'Survivors' Story', which was on just a few hours ago, on BBC2, was excellent.
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  #143  
Old 08-01-2011, 21:52
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

I agree ... better than the drama in my opinion.
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  #144  
Old 09-01-2011, 09:07
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
I agree ... better than the drama in my opinion.
I got more out of the documentary, although I don't think the two could be directly compared.

excellent documentary
thought provoking drama.
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  #145  
Old 09-01-2011, 12:25
NSR NSR is offline
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

It wasn't just the officers' shoulder straps that were wrong, the brief glimpse of the stoker showed his branch badge upside down as well. Do you think it was something to do with the fact that the action took place south of the equator?

Ken
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  #146  
Old 09-01-2011, 14:38
INVINCIBLE INVINCIBLE is offline
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

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Originally Posted by NSR View Post
It wasn't just the officers' shoulder straps that were wrong, the brief glimpse of the stoker showed his branch badge upside down as well. Do you think it was something to do with the fact that the action took place south of the equator?

Ken
Ken,

Good point! – Seriously it must be just the lack of a half competent naval advisor on the team, though in fairness I thought U-156 (an ocean going type IXC U-boat) was fairly realistic.
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  #147  
Old 09-01-2011, 20:54
Destroyerman Destroyerman is offline
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

I very much doubt if this two-part programme will feature in any future BAFTA ceremonies.

Alan Bleasedale's usually creative writing was undermined by wardrobe and marine advice, both Merchant and Royal Navy (DEMS).

Lowspot for me was when U-156 had hit LACONIA with her first torpedo and the U-boat commander was surveying the carnage through a periscope, some "unsighted" (but within arms length) individual reported to the CO that she hadn't sunk yet. Talk about stating the perfectly bleedin' obvious!

Subsequently I saved 90 minutes of my remaining life by not watching part 2.
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  #148  
Old 10-01-2011, 22:40
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroyerman View Post
I very much doubt if this two-part programme will feature in any future BAFTA ceremonies.

Alan Bleasedale's usually creative writing was undermined by wardrobe and marine advice, both Merchant and Royal Navy (DEMS).

Lowspot for me was when U-156 had hit LACONIA with her first torpedo and the U-boat commander was surveying the carnage through a periscope, some "unsighted" (but within arms length) individual reported to the CO that she hadn't sunk yet. Talk about stating the perfectly bleedin' obvious!

Subsequently I saved 90 minutes of my remaining life by not watching part 2.
most people neither know nor care about the mionutiae of naval uniforms and technicalities.
What matters is whether it worked as a piece of drama. I thought some of it was brilliant, some of it was mundane
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  #149  
Old 10-01-2011, 23:05
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris westwood View Post
most people neither know nor care about the mionutiae of naval uniforms and technicalities.
Chris, I don't doubt there is some truth in this element of your post.
However, I would suggest/suppose that MOST people/members of this Forum would both know and care!!!!!
I would suggest that it is the Forum members who count, not the wider transient public viewers/readers.

Little h
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  #150  
Old 10-01-2011, 23:31
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Default Re: Television Programmes of Interest

Hi Little H! It's good to be back! I agree with your comment; I care and I would suspect many others do to. Although the facts were well presented it was badly flawed in my opinion by the very lack of attention to detail that usually makes docu dramas so watchable. I was suprised to see the 'Grunters' (Naval Officers) in Sierra Leone saluting each other whilst not wearing caps and the killick sparker (Leading Telegraphist) with an upside down branch badge. The stoker on Laconia has already been mentioned but did we all notice the DEMS guy with his Killicks badge on the wrong sleeve?
Personally I don't think that this was Bleasdale at his best. He was of course only writing from the widely known facts and appeared to have little knowledge of what sea life is/was really like. I hope that my comments here have not got anyone hot under the collar but as an retired matelot with a Masters degree in creative writing I feel that I have earned the right!

best wishes
Janm
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