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  #176  
Old 15-07-2009, 09:14
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Probably 'cos the sight of all you hairy chested men might send the local females into overdrive!!
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  #177  
Old 15-07-2009, 12:23
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Scurs

Overdrive or Overboard?????
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  #178  
Old 18-07-2009, 19:55
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Quote:
Originally Posted by John O'Callaghan View Post
Ivor.there is a book which gives good detail of RN uniforms and rigs about WW2 period.It's from Osprey Publishing.title The Royal Navy 1939-45.
Cheers JohnO'C.

OK I bought and read the book John but it did not detail the origins of a Seaman's outfit and why it was of that design
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  #179  
Old 19-07-2009, 07:44
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Sorry Ivor. I realise it concentrared on the WW2 period .But it does give a couple other potential sources of history of the rig in the index/sources section.
Cheers John O'C.

Last edited by John O'Callaghan : 19-07-2009 at 07:45. Reason: spelling error
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  #180  
Old 19-07-2009, 16:03
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

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Originally Posted by John O'Callaghan View Post
Sorry Ivor. I realise it concentrared on the WW2 period .But it does give a couple other potential sources of history of the rig in the index/sources section.
Cheers John O'C.

Yes John still an interesting book though

Regards Ivor
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  #181  
Old 19-07-2009, 19:15
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Ivor much has been written about the press of a bygone age but it is interesting to note that they at first resorted to impressing likely candidates by their manner and bearing. This included being dressed as "tiddly" as seamen could possibly be. They would usually be respledent in black shoes with shiny buckles, white duck trousers with the almost obligatory thin blue or red stripe, bright red waistcoat, short blue jacket with brass buttons, black silk cravat and black lacquered straw hat with the name of the ship painted in gold across the front or on a black ribbon tied and the ends allowed to hang long and flutter in the breeze. At their waists would hang a cutlass or cudgel and they would walk in a rolling manner and converse in a nautical language. All contrived of course to impress. That said their first course of action would be to attract trained seaman to the fleet by giving the impression to a bunch of half drunk men that life in the RN was a great adventure. Which of course it was. The navy had no use for landsmen except in time of great need such as war when as many men as could be procured would be processed. What is often not appreciated is that life in the RN was often better than life ashore. To our modern sensibilities it seems almost intolerable but taken in the context of the times, life onboard was certainly no worse than civilian life. When my grandfather joined in 1901 he thought that life was grand. He got free clothes, food and sat by a pot-bellied stove.
He also got paid 3d a week. As he always told me, "A penny for a stamp for the letter home to mother, a penny to save and a penny for a pot of jam to have with my bread for tea." So much better than his life as an under gamekeeper on a large estate. Things had not changed much in a hundred years.

Best wishes
Jan
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  #182  
Old 19-07-2009, 19:33
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Thank you Jan ,

What I would like to know is where the design for the Jacks rig came from or who designed it

The top looks a bit like a fishing smock , the Bell bottoms have been explained to some extent as has the hat [ sorry if I am using the wrong terms] and the shirt sorry don't know its name even...
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  #183  
Old 19-07-2009, 19:49
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

H..........Cap
Shirt.....White Front (Summer)
Blue Jersey (Winter)
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  #184  
Old 19-07-2009, 19:58
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

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H..........Cap
Shirt.....White Front (Summer)
Blue Jersey (Winter)

Hi Dave thanks for your input ,
yes I know you where shirts but not your No 1s with the lanyard around it surely ?
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  #185  
Old 19-07-2009, 20:09
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Ivor,

Are you mixing up shirts that are worn with fore and aft rig with white fronts that form part of square rig. White fronts are worn under the jumper and the full rig includes blue jean collar, black silk and lanyard. Red badges for No 2s and gold badges for No 1s.

White shirts and black tie for fore and aft rigged personnell. This used to include the Miscellaneous Branch (Cook, Stewards, etc) until they were brought into line with Seamen, Stokers, etc. and wear square rig.

Ken
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  #186  
Old 19-07-2009, 20:19
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Ivor,

Are you mixing up shirts that are worn with fore and aft rig with white fronts that form part of square rig. White fronts are worn under the jumper and the full rig includes blue jean collar, black silk and lanyard. Red badges for No 2s and gold badges for No 1s.

White shirts and black tie for fore and aft rigged personnell. This used to include the Miscellaneous Branch (Cook, Stewards, etc) until they were brought into line with Seamen, Stokers, etc. and wear square rig.

Ken
Sorry to sound so dim Ken "Fore and aft rig"... "square rig" whilst I have seen it on the Forum I have never understood what was being said here
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  #187  
Old 19-07-2009, 20:24
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

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Originally Posted by ivorthediver View Post
Sorry to sound so dim Ken "Fore and aft rig"... "square rig" whilst I have seen it on the Forum I have never understood what was being said here
Square rig.....The uniform that Sailors up to Leading Hand would wear
Fore and Aft Rig.......Petty Officers and Chief Petty Officers. Leading Rate Artificers wore Fore and Aft rig if my memory serves me right
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  #188  
Old 19-07-2009, 20:30
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

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Originally Posted by qprdave View Post
Square rig.....The uniform that Sailors up to Leading Hand would wear
Fore and Aft Rig.......Petty Officers and Chief Petty Officers. Leading Rate Artificers wore Fore and Aft rig if my memory serves me right

Thanks Dave , can you now explain the origins of the Square Rig to me please

What it consisted of and when it was introduced , would be very helpful

Regards Ivor
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  #189  
Old 19-07-2009, 20:43
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

I don't think that anyone really knows how the Naval uniform came about. At one time it totally was dependent on the Captain of a single ship. If he was wealthy he would kit his men out in a uniform. I would think that it was solely to show his wealth and boost his ego.

I am guessing now, when I say that when the R.N. Decided to standardise the uniform they took bits from all the uniforms that were about.

I have heard of so many reasons why the uniform was as it is.
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  #190  
Old 19-07-2009, 20:48
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Thanks anyway Dave, I appreciate what you are saying here.
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  #191  
Old 19-07-2009, 23:14
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Ivor.I believe that the rig came from a simple (and Cheap) working dress common to many workers in the 17-1800s. The jacket or top is cut down smock to be pulled over the head to dress(no buttons or buttonholes to sew or to tangle in lines or sails).The bellbottom trousers allowed legs to be rolled up easily for washing down decks or wading in boatwork. the lanyard was a convenient way of carrying a knife. The uniform could be rolled into a bundlle for stowage.It was introduced at a time when most sailors simply rolled their worldly possessions into a hammock for stowage.
The cap was just a variation on the pill box cap popular in the mid 1800s for military wear .
with a few tiddly changes we arrive at what we've got.
Officers had a uniform before Jack it was based on the suit of a gentleman of the times with a few military embelishments.Officers uniforms changed more quickly with fashion.
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  #192  
Old 20-07-2009, 04:52
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Quote:
Originally Posted by John O'Callaghan View Post
Ivor.I believe that the rig came from a simple (and Cheap) working dress common to many workers in the 17-1800s. The jacket or top is cut down smock to be pulled over the head to dress(no buttons or buttonholes to sew or to tangle in lines or sails).The bellbottom trousers allowed legs to be rolled up easily for washing down decks or wading in boatwork. the lanyard was a convenient way of carrying a knife. The uniform could be rolled into a bundlle for stowage.It was introduced at a time when most sailors simply rolled their worldly possessions into a hammock for stowage.
The cap was just a variation on the pill box cap popular in the mid 1800s for military wear .
with a few tiddly changes we arrive at what we've got.
Officers had a uniform before Jack it was based on the suit of a gentleman of the times with a few military embelishments.Officers uniforms changed more quickly with fashion.
Thank you John for your contribution here
Regards Ivor
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  #193  
Old 20-07-2009, 07:34
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

QPR Dave, there is no mystery. I thought I had mentioned the origins in my post #139 or am I being a bit thick?

best wishes
Jan
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  #194  
Old 20-07-2009, 14:01
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Whilst I agree with everything that you wrote in #139, Jan. I have also heard these reasons for the uniform. But when ask where their information came from, the answer was "Well that's what I was told".
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  #195  
Old 20-07-2009, 14:43
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

During WW2 which members of the royal navy were issued with army style battle dress. Was it only officers or was it general issue. Kevin.
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  #196  
Old 20-07-2009, 15:42
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Naval Cadets at Dartmouth were issued with battledress until well after WWII.
Some officers wore them after the war - I bought mine from slops in 1971 (Dated 1944) to wear on rifle ranges (Tipner, Trevol, Bisley, Longmore etc) as I was a 'gravelbelly' and in many competitions, full uniform was specified and a No.5 suit was not cheap! - still in my trunk up in the loft!
The only ratings I have seen wearing battledress were MCDs and that was also after the war of course.
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  #197  
Old 20-07-2009, 15:56
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Default Re: Royal Navy Uniform

Hello Fairlead. My grandad use to say his army battledress was like being wrapped in sandpaper ! Were the navy ones like that as well. Kevin.
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  #198  
Old 10-08-2009, 01:29
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Default Royal Navy Uniform Buttons

I have had a search of the forum,can't see anything else on buttons.So will start posting what i have.
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  #199  
Old 10-08-2009, 01:36
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Default Re: Royal Navy Buttons

And again.
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  #200  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:57
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Default Re: Royal Navy Buttons

Hi final lot
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