Royal Navy Uniform

[TrotOneLower]

Same here in Smiff. They toodle between the "Naval Base" (no longer a Dockyard) and Barracks in their Noz 8s (or whatever number they are now), hands in pockets, or mobile phone stuck to their lug. All the while, their headgear is either in a pocket of their "Cargo Pants", or pulled through an epaulette. Scruffy buggers that seem to lack the pride and purpose of those from an era not so very long ago.
Downtown it's the same.
I blame the Government, but then I would.

[Fairlead]

Only today I saw a Midshipman wearing No.8s and steaming boots, no cap or beret - and yes he had a phone stuck to his ear......where was he? - Cascades shopping centre in Portsmouth!

Fairlead

[harry.gibbon]

on the other hand.. three weeks ago in Doncaster Exchange Bus Station I saw a very smart matelot in blue trousers and what looked like a sea jersey with Royal Navy eppulettes rig No ? and complete with blue holdall. Didn't have time to exchange hello's but he did look the part.

Still confused what rate/rank he might have been

Little h

[oldsalt]

nother sighting today in Plymouth, a female sailor (sailoress?) in working rig, wearing beret & pushing a pram! I think we should have a points reward scheme for the strangest in uniorm sighting. I'm sorry if this seems sexist but I can' imagine four female sailors heaving a portable pump , through bulhead doors & up & down ladders.

[qprdave]

Keith

I don't believe that you are being sexist.

It is a well known fact that during training, anything physical, females are treated different with a lower passmark required or lower workload.

In fact, I think that the establishment is more sexist against men for allowing this!!!!!

[TrotOneLower]

Agree.
As for the SWIT (Sailor With T*ts). Just stand outside the Portsea Sure Start Centre at clocking-in time, and you will see quite a few wheeling in their little princes, and princesses for the day. This is of course 45 minutes after everyone else has turned-to.

[qprdave]

Question???

Do female sailors with children get preferential treatment for shoretime. If they do, are the men left at sea longer?

[TrotOneLower]

Originally Posted by qprdave

Question???

Do female sailors with children get preferential treatment for shoretime. If they do, are the men left at sea longer?

Answer to the first; an unequivocal yes. My oldest daughter did twelve and inadvertently told me a couple of tales. One about a "girl" who just kept getting pregnant. Lots of maternity leave, full pay, no sea time.

As to the second, don't know. But then again, it's hard to tell which are the men these days.

[chris westwood]

Originally Posted by Jan Steer

Almost as silly as seeing the present day female sailors in sailor suits!!

best wishes
Jan

why?

my neighbour's neice lokks very smart in hers.
I can't see the problem

[Jan Steer]

Chris thankyou for your comment. I guess it is all down to a matter of personal opinion. The wonderful thing about living in a democracy is the fact that we are all at liberty to state that opinion even if we don't happen to agree with the other chap's.
I served at a time when our girls joined the WRNS (Womens Royal Naval Service) not the navy; were subject to their own regulations and did not serve at sea. They dressed and looked like women and as a "sparker" (radio operator) I got to work with many when serving ashore. I loved our girls. So much so in fact that I married one!
I am not a part of the modern navy and (again it is my personal opinion being stated here) I think that the women look incongruous and faintly ridiculous in sailors suits that were very obviously originally designed for men.
I don't have a problem with the girls being at sea; that is for others better placed to judge to discuss, but I much prefer women to look like women. Am I alone I wonder?

best wishes
Jan

[qprdave]

I agree with you Jan.

Sending girls to sea is all to do about being "Politically Correct"

I am all for equal pay for women. But I feel that women who just wear the same uniform and do the same watches is not enough. I am sure that they are unable to carry out some work that is expected of men.

Look back to an answer Post #95. With all the cut backs, there must be fewer and fewer shore jobs and when a girl does something like this and remains ashore then someone on a ship is denied that posting.

To me, getting pregnant is not a disease...It is voluntary. Why should she be held any different to men and many of the responsible girls that are serving on our ships! Where is the equality there?

Because these over zealous women's rights campaigners are getting there own way. It is only a matter of time when there will be an equal rights campaign for men!!!!!

Jan, You mentioned the WRNS. When they got pregnant, Didn't they have to resign from the service?

What year was it that it was decided that a baby didn't need a full time Mother?

[Harley]

The uniforms pages on the official Royal Navy website are appalling - how anyone would want to join if you looked like some of the personnel in those photos - horrifying!

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/training...he-royal-navy/

The women naval officers' rig doesn't look flattering, especially compared to that in the United States Navy.

Simon

[chris westwood]

Originally Posted by spruso

Very interesting thread.

My dad (RAN WW2) used to put the "wave" in his cap by bending it somehow on his knee. Couldn't be seen with a flat cap. He reckoned you could tell the "Poms" by their "Flat caps".

Cheers
Bruce

not a chance
and I've got the pics to prove it!

[qprdave]

I agree Chris

We all used to do it. Something that they didn't agree with for Divisions though

The nearest I have been to being an Ozzy Matelot was a weeks visit to Fremantle on the Naiad!!!!!!

[chris westwood]

Originally Posted by Jan Steer

Chris thankyou for your comment. I guess it is all down to a matter of personal opinion. The wonderful thing about living in a democracy is the fact that we are all at liberty to state that opinion even if we don't happen to agree with the other chap's.
I served at a time when our girls joined the WRNS (Womens Royal Naval Service) not the navy; were subject to their own regulations and did not serve at sea. They dressed and looked like women and as a "sparker" (radio operator) I got to work with many when serving ashore. I loved our girls. So much so in fact that I married one!
I am not a part of the modern navy and (again it is my personal opinion being stated here) I think that the women look incongruous and faintly ridiculous in sailors suits that were very obviously originally designed for men.
I don't have a problem with the girls being at sea; that is for others better placed to judge to discuss, but I much prefer women to look like women. Am I alone I wonder?

best wishes
Jan

absolutely bang on.
'looking like woman' is open(thankfully) to a pretty wide interpretetation, and that goes for looking like a man. Thirty odd years ago my hair was waist length.
my neighbour's neice srves on one of the new bay class RFAs as part of the naval contingent. She enjoys it and she says there are no complaints about her work.
I'm not sure about what's meant by 'man's work', someone mentioned about women sailors not being able to haul a poretable pump up a ladder-I'm guessing that there are male sailors who coiuldn't as well. Horses for courses IMHO.
I think this forum is great.

[chris westwood]

Originally Posted by qprdave

I agree Chris

We all used to do it. Something that they didn't agree with for Divisions though

The nearest I have been to being an Ozzy Matelot was a weeks visit to Fremantle on the Naiad!!!!!!

I have a pic of my dad and the entire crtew of the defender including dog taken at HMS Nile after her loss-every matelot had a bow wave!
My neighbour Pete who's beice I've been on about served in Hermes, Jupiter and Panther in the late 60s seventies. Everything that everybody says on here about their uniforms he'stold me about!
His name's Pete Smith in case anyone knew him and he's a top bloke.

[Derek Dicker]

Hi Shipmates. I left regular RN in 1969. Gave it a few years with my wife and young children, then joined the RNXS a civilian branch of the RN, later becoming part of the reserve forces.
My Role in the RNXS was an instructor in naval communications (voice procedure, flag recognition, morse flashing light, message handling, teleprinter operations) we had a multi mixture of sex's, ages, single or married, our seagoing branch was made up of both male and female, seaman,engineering,communications. We all had a role to play in the operational efficiency of the vessel. Gender did not come into the equation, perhaps we were a bit older and a bit more responsible. I cannot remember anything untoward happening onboard our vessels.
During my survice in the RNXS, prior to the introduction to females being allowed as a serving members of a ships crew, I was interviewed by RN personell dept from MOD(n) probable because of my previous service as regular navy. I made my feelings felt, I considered that the female involvement in the running of an RN vessel would be detremental to the efficient running of a vessel in combat conditions, and to what effect this would be on the wifes of those males serving in said ships. I must point out that like other members contributing to this thread, I have nothing but kindness to the WRNS who served with us communications departments ratings in many home and foreign stations, BUT I think the decision to allow the opposite sex onto a fighting machine to be detrimental to the Royal Navy.
Call me an old fuddy duddy, but this is my opion agree or not.
Thats me off the soap box

Derek (bunts)

[TrotOneLower]

My eldest was one of the first WREN ROs to go to sea (Fearless and Southampton). Onboard she wore noz eights like everyone else, but still kept her ladylike uniform for other purposes. The Yanks even dress their women as, well women, instead of looking like the cast of some Comic Opera.......

[spruso]

Originally Posted by chris westwood

I have a pic of my dad and the entire crtew of the defender including dog taken at HMS Nile after her loss-every matelot had a bow wave!
My neighbour Pete who's beice I've been on about served in Hermes, Jupiter and Panther in the late 60s seventies. Everything that everybody says on here about their uniforms he'stold me about!
His name's Pete Smith in case anyone knew him and he's a top bloke.

Probably borrowed Oz caps mate! Seriously though - I've never noticed any photos of RAN WW2 blokes with flat caps but seen plenty of RN "flat tops" Why is this?

This raises two more questions. When did both navies stop using the "wave" and why? And also, why black caps in the RN and not the RAN?

I wonder what would happen today if you turned up on parade with a wavy cap. Probably get sent to sit on the "naughty chair" for 10 minutes.

Cheers
Bruce

[Kevin123]

I think during years gone by the best suit a serviceman had , was probably his uniform. Because of this he probably wore it more then they do now. These days their best uniforms are hardly used, therefore their caps always look as if they've just came out of Gieves and Hawks. Alot of ww2 serviceman got married in their uniforms because they couldn't afford civilian suits. Kevin.

[Jan Steer]

You have a point there. I loved to wear my run-ashore suit whenever I got the chance. We always had to go on draft in uniform too as I recall. Red badges if I'm not mistaken. I remember crossing London once by tube and whilst waiting on the platform an old lady asked, "Can I touch your collar for luck Jack?" Well, we were all used to that. "Of course you can" I said and leant forward for her to reach. "My dad was in the navy in the first war," she said, "and when I was a little girl and we saw a sailor my mother used to tell us to go and touch their collars for luck and to bring dad home safe. He never made it." I thought that was so sad and I've remembered that yarn all my life.
When the IRA was active on the mainland and terrorism generally was on the increase we were stopped from wearing our uniforms ashore in this country as it made us easily identifiable and targets of course.
Great shame but necessary.

Best wishes
Jan

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Derek, Concur every word you say. I worked with many Wren Communicators on many stations ashore and I found them in many cases to have the edge on the Male counterparts. Never had them at sea because I left in '77 but have never been convinced of the "equality" bit when it comes to the front line ..... I am old fashioned enough to still believe that chivalry is still alive and that in that dire emergency situation most guys would still offer the helping hand to the female when they should really be thinking "One hand for the Queen and the other is for me", or has thinking moved on leaving us old hands behind??
Dave H [Sparks]

[Derek Dicker]

Hi Dave, I agree with you that the fair sex should be appreciated, Ive been married to mine for 45 years, I think now is the time for the younger ladies to give up her seat on the bus for me.

Derek (bunts)

[Kevin123]

I'm sure I read somewhere that in the 1970's the yanks tried to do away with the sailor rig and put everyone in PO uniforms. Can anyone remember this. Kevin.

[oldsalt]

Originally Posted by Kevin123

I think during years gone by the best suit a serviceman had , was probably his uniform. Because of this he probably wore it more then they do now. These days their best uniforms are hardly used, therefore their caps always look as if they've just came out of Gieves and Hawks. Alot of ww2 serviceman got married in their uniforms because they couldn't afford civilian suits. Kevin.

Although it was'nt during the war I got married in uniform (with the long white tapes) because everybody expected me to & because I was proud of my uniform. Just a small question , where do they stow all the civvy & uniform clothes ?