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  #226  
Old 02-10-2009, 07:47
John O'Callaghan's Avatar
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Hi Bunting Bob.As best I can make out from your post 15 he appears to wear war chevrons on his right cuff.His right arm rate (His trade or job) worn on the upper right arm above the albow appears to be a torpedoman with stars indicating he may be 1st/2nd class.On the upper left arm he appears to have one good conduct badge( 4 years good conduct).I guess he would be an Able Seaman Torpedoman.He also appears to be wearing a medal ribbon on his left breast. With a lot of these old photos where the subject is wearing red badges the poor contrast between the blue serge uniform and the badges makes it very hard to see detail.
Cheers John O'C.

Last edited by John O'Callaghan : 02-10-2009 at 07:49. Reason: Detail
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  #227  
Old 02-10-2009, 07:55
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Interesting stuff guys but can you help me out here please? I have several photos of my grandfather. He joined in 1901 and served through the first world war. I have photos of him as a junior and a senior rate. Although his ribbons are clearly visible: pip, squeak and wilfred plus his Persian Gulf medal and later his LSGC, none of them show war chevrons. So my question is, was it compulsory to wear them and if so were senior rates excluded?

best wishes
Jan

PS Bunting Bob, I can see the family likeness in the photo.
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  #228  
Old 02-10-2009, 08:13
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Jan Steer. I can't be certain. But knowing Navies if it's an official award/badge/medal and you qualify for it you had better be wearing it as prescibed or 'Get Yer Cap!' ('Yes Chief!' Double away smartly.)
Cheers John O'C.
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  #229  
Old 02-10-2009, 10:27
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Interesting photo included in the article here of a square-rigged Petty Officer in 1919 wearing a uniform similar to the one at the top of the thread. The article also includes a useful explanation about War Service (Overseas Service) Chevrons. They weren't instituted until Jan 1918 but were made retrospective.

Also see Part 1 Para 1 of this document from the National Archives dated 28 Dec 1917:

Quote:
IMPERIAL AFFAIRS.

The Dominion Governments have been informed that His Majesty the King has
approved of the award of chevrons to denote service oversea undertaken since 4th August
1914. Amongst those eligible are officers and soldiers of oversea forces, members of
oversea nursing services, civilians attached to British forces in an official capacity,
Native Labour Corps and members of officially recognised Voluntary Aid Detachments.
Additional chevrons will be given for each successive period of 12 months' service,
which must be either oversea or within the sphere of active operations. If earned on
or before 31st December 1914, the chevron will be red, and if earned after that date
it will be blue, which will also be the colour of all additional chevrons after the
first.
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File Type: jpg RNFAMLY.jpg (44.9 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by Rob Hoole : 02-10-2009 at 10:47. Reason: Edited to add that I have just noticed Alan Benn's post above containing the same photo.
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  #230  
Old 02-10-2009, 16:45
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Northshields (Andrew) sent me the following PM asking for assistance. I asked him to email me a copy of the Servce certificate to see if I could sort it but I have come to a full stop.
My friends, can I throw this open to you I will post the SC with this.

Cheers, Bob.

Hello again-hope you don't mind but you seemed to be the man to ask...

I've been cobbling together details of the ships on which my great grandfather served 1896-1900. On his RN record it lists the names of all the ships apart from one where the entry simply reads 'Cruiser'.

It appears like this:

Theseus 14 Jan 96
" 11 May 96-10 May 97
Cruiser 11 May 97-25 May 97
Theseus 26 May 97-19 July 97

I understand from this forum that Cruiser refers to the class; why isn't the Cruiser in question given its full name ie HMS ******?

Thanks if you can shed any light on this for me

Regards

Andrew
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  #231  
Old 02-10-2009, 17:23
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

http://www.pdavis.nl/ShowShip.php?id=1298

Above is a web address which might help
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  #232  
Old 02-10-2009, 17:40
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Northshields your man served on HMS Cruiser. One was launched in 1852 as a wood screw sloop as HMS Cruizer and renamed Cruiser in 1857. She became a training ship in 1893 and renamed HMS Lark. She was eventually sold in 1912.
But the one that you are interested in was an Osprey class sloop launched in 1879 as HMS Kingfisher. She was renamed Lark in 1892 and renamed Cruizer in 1893. She was eventually sold in 1919. This sounds like the ship he served on. I'm guessing that whoever wrote out the service certificate entry just spelt it wrong.
Hope this is helpful
best wishes
Jan

Last edited by Jan Steer : 02-10-2009 at 18:00.
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  #233  
Old 03-10-2009, 08:17
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Also note he only served aboard Hms Cruiser for 14 days. Don't know the reason for this, the ship may have been alongside as he returned to Theseus whence he came after leaving 'Cruiser'

Regards
Alan
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  #234  
Old 03-10-2009, 09:54
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Hi Guys. Thanks for the info on my Great Uncle. I didn't notice it before but there is a branch badge partially visible. His record shows that he did several drafts to Vernon so he must have had something to do with those dastardly, underwater deliverers of death.

Thanks, Jan. He does bear a family resemblance. Your memory's coming back.

He also spent a year on HMS Antrim 1911/12. Aren't coincidences wonderful.
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  #235  
Old 03-10-2009, 12:00
North Shields North Shields is offline
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Thank you Bob, Alan and Jan

Regards

Andrew
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  #236  
Old 03-10-2009, 12:41
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

"dastardly, underwater deliverers of death."

Hey.....Bob

You are talking about God's chosen few!!!!!!!!!!
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  #237  
Old 03-10-2009, 14:16
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by qprdave View Post
"dastardly, underwater deliverers of death."

Hey.....Bob

You are talking about God's chosen few!!!!!!!!!!
'Twas not the bottom dwellers I was referring to but the objects they throw about the 'oggin.
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  #238  
Old 03-10-2009, 14:34
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Thank gwd , would have been depth charges as well ??or just fish ... nobby.

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  #239  
Old 07-10-2009, 17:25
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Northshields,

This cannot be your grandfather as he run as an AB.

The man in your pick is wearing a PO badge. and 3 GC badges.

Regards

james
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And my grandmother LACW G I Harvey WAAF
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  #240  
Old 07-10-2009, 17:27
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuntingBob View Post
Hi North Sheilds. Not wishing to steal any of your thunder but I thought you might like to see a pic of my Great Uncle Alfred. He joined the RN in 1912 and left in 1923. His record shows the word RUN and that date 3.4.14 and I think I've deciphered the fact that he got 42 days detention for it. He managed to carry on throughout WW1 and stayed on for a bit longer. I too, have a copy of his service record and it's fascinating to view. His physical details, on joining, match mine except for our heights, which differed by four inches.
The main reason I'm jumping in on your thread is to ask anyone if they can verify that the stripes he sports on his right arm are length of service stripes.
He is wearing the 1914-15 ribbon,.

Also the war cheverons are not identicle, the one for 1914 was a different colour to the rest to symbolise that the wearer had been in from the start, I think it was red and the rest were blue.

Regards

James
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in memory of my grandfather A/B C F Harvey RN Boom Defence.

39-45 Star, Burma Star, France and Germany Star, Defence Medal and War Medal

And my grandmother LACW G I Harvey WAAF
Defence and War medal
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  #241  
Old 07-10-2009, 21:51
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Quote:
Also the war cheverons are not identicle, the one for 1914 was a different colour to the rest to symbolise that the wearer had been in from the start, I think it was red and the rest were blue.
James, the articles on war chevrons state that whichever colour is issued to the wearer in the 1st issue all subsequent chevrons will be issued in the same colour. So there wouldn't be a mix of colours.

Regards
Alan
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  #242  
Old 08-10-2009, 10:33
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Thanks for the extra input guys. I must admit that one of the chevrons does look a bit different. If it was the first one issued, maybe it has become tarnished over the years or he spilt his tot on it.
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  #243  
Old 08-10-2009, 12:49
North Shields North Shields is offline
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Thank you for your help

Regards

Andrew
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  #244  
Old 08-10-2009, 13:08
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

I say again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Hoole View Post

Interesting photo included in the article here of a square-rigged Petty Officer in 1919 wearing a uniform similar to the one at the top of the thread. The article also includes a useful explanation about War Service (Overseas Service) Chevrons. They weren't instituted until Jan 1918 but were made retrospective.

Also see Part 1 Para 1 of this document from the National Archives dated 28 Dec 1917:

Quote:
IMPERIAL AFFAIRS.

The Dominion Governments have been informed that His Majesty the King has approved of the award of chevrons to denote service oversea undertaken since 4th August 1914. Amongst those eligible are officers and soldiers of oversea forces, members of oversea nursing services, civilians attached to British forces in an official capacity, Native Labour Corps and members of officially recognised Voluntary Aid Detachments. Additional chevrons will be given for each successive period of 12 months' service, which must be either oversea or within the sphere of active operations. If earned on or before 31st December 1914, the chevron will be red, and if earned after that date it will be blue, which will also be the colour of all additional chevrons after the first.

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  #245  
Old 08-10-2009, 13:10
North Shields North Shields is offline
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Thank you

Regards

Andrew
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  #246  
Old 08-10-2009, 13:23
North Shields North Shields is offline
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Thanks for your input James.

He was never caught or punished according to his records though and also he 're-joined' (in some capacity or other-am investigating) and served on an armed trawler before dying in 1917. Might he have gained the PO badge then?...and the chevrons are still there because he is wearing his old uniform and nobody on the trawler challenged this?
...grasping at straws now I know-I just wanted this to be a picture of him. Never mind.
Regards

Andrew
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  #247  
Old 08-10-2009, 14:44
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Default Re: RN uniform period identity

Rob, didn't see the part of the document that mentions the issue prior to Dec 1914. Thanks for pointing it out......hope I didn't confuse everybody.

Regards
Alan
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  #248  
Old 13-10-2009, 08:21
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Default Stokers Badge

I cannot beleive this but I am going to have to grovel to the stokers!
Have any of you got a picture of a gold stokers badge please, it is so that it can be copied and reproduced for a presentation to an ex stoker
Thanks in anticipation
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  #249  
Old 18-10-2009, 18:41
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Default Re: Stokers Badge

Stop hiding behind your helmet Francis !


I am sure there will be one along soon but the only picture I have of a Stokers Badge has an arm in it [attached] ...pun intended
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  #250  
Old 18-10-2009, 20:06
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: Stokers Badge

Francis - Open the eyes and flush the moths out of the wallet - I cannot believe living in the armhole of England - bastion of the barrack stanchions - that you cannot find a secondhand emporium or Naval Tailors that cannot produce the article that you desire.

Go forth my son and you will reap the benefit of your endeavours - but if you don't I'm sure some Old Clankie on the Forum will take pity on your predicament.

Only joking mate - Good luck in your search.

Dave H
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