Death Sandwich

[Spinningspark]

Many years ago, I heard a retired naval officer on the TV refer to a maneouver during a naval battle as like a "death sandwich". Apparently, the warships had passed through the enemy exposing themselves to fire from both sides (in line abreast if I remember correctly). I have long since forgotten the details of this but the phrase has stuck in my mind. Does anyone know what battle this event took place in? Possibly Jutland?

[Alan B]

I think the British line went through the German line at night at Jutland if that's what you mean. The prefered line is "Crossing the T" when a line of ships pass ahead of the enemy line so as to bring all guns to bear on the lead enemy ship.
Hope this helps
Alan

[Spinningspark]

Thanks, but I don't think that crossing the 'T' was being described. This was something altogether more unusual.

[Alan B]

Sorry, I should've explained better. The death sandwich, as I see it, is the line of ships on the recieving end of crossing the "T"
Alan

[Spinningspark]

You explained it just fine and you may well be right. But my memory of the description in the interview was more like the way your fingers pass through each other when you clasp your hands in a cradle.

By the way, the suggestion that this might have been at Jutland was entirely a guess on my part and could be a red herring.

Colin

[HMS Bergamot]

You don't think it is more likely to be Trafalgar, do you? The British exposed themselves to fire from both sides, and to having their 'T' crossed, in order to break up the french/Spanish fleet into smaller disorganised groups (I nearly said 'unit' but I don't think you can have a disorganised unit??)

At Jutland, the somewhat disorganised Germans were pursuing the British battlecruiser fleet northwards when they ran into the Grand Fleet, deployed (just in time, I might add) in line astern, and most definately having their 'T' crossed. The High seas Fleet escaped this maelstrom of fire by conducting their famous 'battle turn away' (Gefechtwendung) where the rear ship turned first and the one ahead turned as soon as it saw the rear ship begin its swing.

Course, having escaped, Scheer then conducted another battle turn and went back! This was supposedly to rescue the crew of the Wiesbaden. He had to do yet another one to extract his fleet from the British jaws.

How Scheer escaped was that his fleet was slower than the Grand Fleet, due to the German pre dreadnoughts being in company. As the two fleets steered slowly converging courses, the faster Grand Fleet drew ahead, leaving the High Seas Fleet to punch its way through the light escorting forces of the British, which Jellicoe had ordered to the rear for the night.

I can't see anything in Jutland that can be described as a 'death sandwich' although if only one battle squadron had turned in and followed behind Hood, what a different story might have evolved.

Regards!

[Spinningspark]

Sorry, I should have said that this was a contemporary account. I don't think anyone from Trafalgar survived long enough to give TV interviews!

[HMS Bergamot]

Ah, well, how about Cap Matapan then? That fits the bill, doesn't it?

At the end of March 1941 the campaign in Greece was approaching a critical climax. Hitler had decided that German forces were needed and had ordered an invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia to begin in April. A British expeditionary force was despatched to bolster the Greek defences. The Germans wanted the convoys transporting the allied troops disrupted and the Italian Navy was the only force capable of achieving this.

German dive-bombers had seriously damaged the aircraft carrier Illustrious in January and Italian intelligence believed that the allied Mediterranean Fleet possessed only one operational battleship. So, the Italians, whose battlefleet was crippled at Taranto, reckoned that a force of heavy cruisers supported by the battleship Vittorio Veneto would be enough to deal with light British forces around Crete.

Oh dear! In fact the British were in much better shape. All three battleships were intact and another carrier, Formidable, had recently arrived to replace Illustrious. With torpedo-bombers in Crete and R.A.F. bombers from Greece, Cunningham held a massive advantage over an Italian Navy which had no air cover. Some British ships also were equipped with radar sets and many were experienced in the art of night fighting, of which Cunningham was the navy's foremost expert. Ultra had broken Axis codes and warned when the Italian fleet sailed on 26 March.

Cunningham cleared the area of convoys and despatched Vice Admiral Pridham-Wippell's cruiser squadron to the south of Crete. On 27 March a reconnaissance aircraft from Malta spotted three Italian cruisers and four destroyers heading for Crete. Cunningham sailed with his battlefleet that evening.

The battle commenced at 0745 on 28 March when Pridham-Wippell's four light cruisers sighted a squadron of three Italian heavy cruisers. The Italians 8 inch/203mm guns opened fire at a range at which the 6 inch/152mm weapons of the British ships could not initially reply.

Pridham-Wippell retired towards Cunningham's force at the full speed in the hope of drawing the enemy into a trap, but at 0855 the Italians suddenly withdrew.

The Italian commander, Admiral Iachino, planned to annihilate the British cruisers involving a pincer movement with the battleship Vittorio Veneto.

The action began well for the Italians when the Venetoís 15 inch/381mm guns opened fire at 1055 to the complete surprise of the British. Pridham Wippell's cruisers laid a smokescreen, but were caught in the crossfire between the Veneto and the Italian cruisers.

Cunningham's air forces now changed the course of the battle.

Formidable's Albacore torpedo-bombers attacked the Italian battleship without success, but having no air cover Iachino suddenly realised his vulnerability and ordered his forces to retire. The chase was on. In a further attack at 1510, the Veneto was hit by one torpedo and her speed was reduced. Cunningham knew he had no chance of catching the Italian battleship unless she was hit again, so he ordered at final air strike at dusk. Instead the heavy cruiser Pola was torpedoed and stopped dead in the water.

The Italian Admiral, unaware of the Cunningham's pursuing battlefleet, now made a most fateful error. He ordered a squadron of cruisers and destroyers to return and protect the Pola. None of the Italian ships were equipped for night fighting. The British battlefleet detected the Italians on radar shortly after 2200.

In one of the most dramatic moments in the war at sea during World War Two, the battleships Barham, Valiant and opened fire at only 3500 metres annihilating two Italian heavy cruisers in five minutes. In the melee that followed British destroyers sank two Italian destroyers and the unfortunate Pola.

Although Vittorio Veneto escaped, the accolades given to Cunningham for continuing the pursuit at night, against the advice of his staff, cannot be overstated. There was no doubt how much the Italians wanted an Admiral of a similar calibre.

That sounds pretty much like a 'death sandwich' to me. Also, if it was a retired British officer, he would be unlikely to refer to any enemy manoeuvre as a death sandwich. More likely to refer to it as 'a bit sticky for a time', or 'the enemy rather luckily...' So, I'm pretty sure it is this defeat of the Italian heavy cruiser force.

Regards!

[tone]

Nelson subjected the moored French squadron to such a double-sided assault at the Battle of the Nile.

tone

How very interesting - the Cape Matapan battle.

The Med fleet played such an important role in the war. I'm thinking specifically of its role in the Greek campaign. With such a high casualty rate being so close to land and hence the German air force now able to take off from Athens. The evacuations from both the Greek mainland and Crete produced horrific damage to the Fleet.

And talking about breaking the codes, I do know that the planned attack on Crete by the Germans was known in advance but that Churchill specifically forbade the Fleet from attacking the German flotilla. In order to prevent the Germans from realising that we could break their codes. The price he felt was too high. So it had to be arranged that elements of the Fleet just bumped into them by chance! Leaving Freyberg on the ground to have to deal with the first significant para drop in history.

In my mind, had the Fleet been given a free hand, Crete would not have fallen. Such a price to pay. Especially as by finally controlling Crete, the Germans dominated the Med.

Finally Bergamot, when you say: "A British expeditionary force was despatched to bolster the Greek defences." I know you mean that a British and Commonwealth ... ... The major infantry group was the Australian 6th Division and the armour mostly New Zealand. All taken from Africa.

I don't know about "bolstering the Greek ... ...". The Germans entered Greece with 15 divisions in the north-east alone. Where the Greek army was. It's a miracle that the Greeks were able to contain them for 3 days. To fight in Greece was not one of Churchill's better ideas and even after giving the orders, the planning for the campaign was very poor and the number of men on the ground completely inadequate for the task. Consider what was necessary for the later campaign in Italy.

[astraltrader]

Cunningham was always to be disappointed that the Vittorio Veneto had whilst being damaged still managed to escape destruction.
The important thing about the battle of Cape Matapan is that it was a well deserved victory at a time when British victories were thin on the ground...

As I understand things, the RN crossed the T twice at Jutland. At least that's what I said in my thread on the subject.