Submarine AE2

[vivian]

Good morning!

I've just finished watching an interesting documentary on the History Channel about a dive on the wreck of AE2. It mixed a re-enactment of the events in 1915 with recent footage of a dive team trying to establish whether EA2 could be raised. The one hour program was not enough and I am left wondering what the present situation is. From what I can determine this was filmed in September 2007.

Does anyone know more about EA2's prospects today?
I can't see anything in the forum but that may just be my oversight.

Thanks and regards,
Viv

She was positively identified in 1998 and the Australians and Turks started talking a year ago to determine if she could be raised.

The wreck is a hellofa mess now and it might be unlikely that a rescue can be made.

Most of her crew died in Turkish POW camps having suffered appallingly.

[astraltrader]

Viv - Expanding a little on what Herk correctly said about last years joint Australian and Turkish investigation into the feasibility of raising the submarine AE2 - you might find this link to the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald of curiosity value...


http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/gal...276544462.html

That interesting front page is a year old. So I feel the optimism expressed there might be unfounded. The boat has suffered a lot and has broken up.

Anyway, here's hoping. Especially as no-one seems to know the whereabouts of AE1.

[Batstiger]

On ebay this week.

LARGE PHOTOGRAPH,-21cm.x16.5cm/8.25"x6.5"-OF THE ROYAL NAVY SUBMARINE HMAS A.E.2 DURING WW1.SOME MINOR CREASING AND REPAIR,OTHERWISE GOOD CONDITION.

HMAS A.E.2,built by Vickers,launched 18/6/1913.Scuttled after damage by shore batteries,Sea of Marmara,30/4/1915.

Australia’s first submarines, the AE1 and the AE2 , were launched in 1913 and were manned by composite Australian and British crews.

At the outbreak of the First World War, the AE1 and the AE2 were sent from Sydney to German New Guinea with the Australian Naval & Military Expeditionary Force and helped to capture the German colony. On 14 September, a day after the official German surrender of the colony, the AE1, commanded by Lieutenant Commander Thomas Besant, left Rabaul harbour to patrol Cape Gazelle, and never returned. The fate of the submarine was never known, but it is probable that the submarine was caught on a coral reef and sunk.

The AE2, commanded by Lieutenant Commander H. S. Stoker, achieved fame for its operations in the Dardanelles. The AE2 was ordered to sail through the Dardanelles, and disrupt Turkish shipping in the Sea of Marmora. No other submarine had yet managed to breach the Turkish defences, but in the early hours of 25 April 1915, the AE2 got past minefields and land-based guns, and after torpedoing a Turkish destroyer, it reached the Sea of Marmora. The AE2 remained at large for five more days before sustaining irreparable damage while under heavy fire. Stoker was forced to sink the submarine and surrender. He and his crew spent the rest of the war in Turkish captivity. Stoker was awarded the Distinguished Service Order after the war.

The wreck of AE 2 was located in 1988, and rest today on her keel, partly buried in the sand on a depth of seventy two meters. The submarine is remarkably in a good condition after all the years at the bottom of the sea, and most details could still be seen when the wreck was visited for the first time since 1915 by divers...


Bob.

[astraltrader]

Originally Posted by herakles

That interesting front page is a year old. So I feel the optimism expressed there might be unfounded. The boat has suffered a lot and has broken up.

Couldn`t agree more Richard, which is why I said in my post that you "rightly said" and also advised that the year old page was mainly for "curiosity value"

[vivian]

Thank you all for the good information. Yes, it does sound like a long shot to raise her but perhaps there'll be more opportunities to dive and film.

thanks and regards
Viv

[battlestar]

G'Day All

I know that some of the best corrosion experts from the WA Maritime Museum have been on this, I'll try and find out more.

And remember, AE-1 is still out there, location unknown.

I posted this a month ago: http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...ead.php?t=2322

[Kevin Denlay]

Hi Folks,

Re the wreck if AE2. First, it is actually in very good condition, that is, in one piece and not broken up at all.

Second, if I recall correctly, the most recent statement from Aust Govt / Heritage Department was that the wreck was not going to be raised because of the costs involved and the amount of time / commitment / money it would take to raise, preserve and rehabilitate it into a display piece.

As for damage, as far as I know the worst damage to the wreck was caused during the expedition of 2007 when one of the mooring anchors for the support vessel broke loose in a storm and dragged across the bow of AE2.

PS. Many of my friends were divers on both the initial discovery expedition and the 2007 expedition.

As for AE1, although another search expedition was planned for January 2009 given the current economic climate it is not sure if it will go ahead at that date.

K

[Kevin Denlay]

Bob,

Tried to find the AE2 image on eBay but no luck. Can you post the link?

K

[vivian]

Thanks for that info Kevin.
I noted that there were some very dangerous moments for the divers in 2007.

thanks and regards
Viv

[battlestar]

G'Day All

FYI...There is a full size replica conning tower of AE-2 in the Western Australian Maritime Museum.

http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/maritime...ions/naval.asp

has a poor image of it, I'll see if I can find a better view.

[Batstiger]

Kevin, see PM.

Bob.

[Kevin Denlay]

Originally Posted by vivian

Thanks for that info Kevin.
I noted that there were some very dangerous moments for the divers in 2007. thanks and regards
Viv

Hi Viv,

Yes, the woman diver who had the accident is extremely lucky to be alive, as - thankfully for all concerned - the accident happened while still shallow. If not for the quick reactions of her dive partner getting her back to the surface and then the surface support crew working diligently to revive her, the outcome could have been quite different.

And thanks for the PM Bob.

K

[HMS Bergamot]

You mean this one?

[battlestar]

G'Day All

Yeah, thats it. Norm O'Neill, the head of the Navy Exhibit at the WAMM at the time and a great mate, pushed to get this project through. I remember the hassel in getting it to the first floor of the museum!

[BALTICSUBS]

Hi All,

i was over in Perth to see the filming of the internal parts of the program in January this year, and had the pleasure of speaking to a member of the dive team. About the raising, one major issue they spoke of was the fact they were uncertain if AE2 did in fact use every torpedo, and they fear there could still be a live warhead on one remaining torpedo.

Couple of set photos attached.

DB.

[battlestar]

G'Day All

DB, great photos!

I was cleaning out one of my hard drives when I came across a bunch of RAN ship plans, including this one of the E class submarine (for those that don't know the AE meant Australian E class)

Enjoy

[vivian]

Thanks DB, yes I can see how a possible live warhead would be a show stopper. Interesting to see the photos too.

Thank you all for updating the story of AE2 thus far. Please post if you hear of any new activity.

thanks and regards
Viv

[BALTICSUBS]

Hi Ian,

the plan you posted is of the B11 and not an E class sub, looks something to do with the large model of the B class submarine in Holbrook NSW Australia. Nice plan though.

DB.

Here's an interesting new slant on AE2 from today's Age newspaper:

Gallipoli submariner died haunted by guilt

• Marika Dobbin
• November 6, 2008

Benita Buchanan (left) with Vecihi and Hatice Basarin. Photo: Pat Scala

GEOFFREY Haggard died at 51 without getting over the guilt that he had inadvertently contributed to the deaths of thousands of Australian troops at Gallipoli.

He was second in command of Australian submarine HMAS AE2 in 1915 when it became the first Allied vessel to penetrate the heavily mined and guarded Dardanelles, encouraging Britain to launch its bloody Gallipoli campaign.

At the launch of the book Beneath the Dardanelles about HMAS AE2 at the Shrine of Remembrance yesterday, Mr Haggard's granddaughter, Benita Buchanan, spoke of his lifelong anxiety over the implications of his mission.

"When they suddenly got through the Dardanelles, they sent a wireless message to headquarters telling of their success and that is probably why the Gallipoli campaign went ahead," Ms Buchanan said.

"He lived with that for a long time, worried because he knew that that'd been a complete disaster for so many men losing their lives."

In the wake of Paul Keating's recent criticism of the view that Australia's national identity was forged at Gallipoli, the book's co-authors, husband and wife Vecihi and Hatice Basarin, yesterday offered to take the former prime minister on a tour of the Turkish peninsula.

Mr Basarin said Mr Keating did not understand that most pilgrims to Gallipoli came away with an overwhelming sense of the tragedy and sacrifice endured by both sides.
"I think he is worried about the nationalistic jingoism that is creeping in, but he is not saying that," Mr Basarin said.

"He's wrong in understanding what Gallipoli means to people … It's an event on Anzac day which is not advertised yet it is growing year by year, so there is obviously something quite special to draw people to that particular place in our history."

Descendants of the submariners and the Turkish Consul-General Aydin Nurhan said they hoped the AE2 wreck would be recovered.

(The Keating - Gallipoli affair rattles on)

[Tim Smith]

Dear Viv and Members

New to this Forum.

I am a member of the Australian-Turkish team assessing the wreck of the WW1 E-class submarine AE2. Yes, our archaeological expedition team, under direction of the AE2 Commemorative Foundation (established by the Submarine Institute of Australia SIA), undertook an archaeological survey of the wreck site in Sept 07. I had previously been involved in the 1997 Turkish search (no outcome) and the 1998 inspection of the wreck after its discovery by Selcuk Kolay that year.

The findings of the 2007 expedition can be found at the SIA web site

www.submarineinstitute.com

Members of the team returned to Istanbul in April 2008 to decide on the preferred management options for the site at a technical Workshop. The overiding decision was to promote AE2's retention in situ but to look at options to safeguard it through legislation, surveillance and perhaps cathodic protection. Both the Australian and Turkish Governments have been provided with a copy of the workshop outcomes for deliberation.

The AE2CF is currently developing an AE2 web site to tell the broader story of AE2 and to disseminate all scholarly materials and a range of historic records. A heritage plaques project is underway at key Australian and Turkish sites visited by AE2, while Australian school-based curricula course materials are also being considered to tell the AE2 Gallipoli naval story better to school kids.

Kind regrads

Tim

Tim Smith
Director-Maritime Archaeology AE2CF

G'Day Tim and welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Thanks for posting this information about AE2. It's good to read that things are in hand.

Now for AE1!!

[vivian]

Hi Tim, thanks very much for that information and the link to the website. I'm pleased to hear about the present activity. It sounds as if everything that can be done is being done. That's great to know.
I hope you will enjoy this forum Tim, there's a ton of good info and generous people.

all the best,
thanks and regards
Viv