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  #1  
Old 28-10-2014, 11:02
Kevin Denlay Kevin Denlay is offline
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Default Destruction of Wargraves

Bad news re Force Z wrecks
Well, seems the salvors have REALLY taken to Prince of Wales and Repulse now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rap-metal.html

The video is especially disturbing, with not only the props gone (May this year if I recall) but now all the prop shafts and huge holes blown in the hulls as well!

Kevin
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  #2  
Old 28-10-2014, 13:15
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

What good is all that high quality metal doing lying under the sea when it could be used in manufacturing. Things like propellers are on the outside of these ships so as long as no one enters the ship and disturb the remains of the sailors I dont see what the harm is.
If the admiralty had not been as naive as to think that no one would eventually remove this stuff they should have done this years ago. This should shock no one. If these people can steal the metal plaques from war memorials stealing a few propellers isn't going to bother them. Unlike war memorials no one could see this stuff anyway.
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  #3  
Old 29-10-2014, 12:21
EX-WEM EX-WEM is offline
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Not only the PoW & Repulse either!

This article is just over 3 years old;

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/1...79B50320111012

Regards,

Craig.
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  #4  
Old 30-10-2014, 22:48
Kevin Denlay Kevin Denlay is offline
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
What good is all that high quality metal doing lying under the sea when it could be used in manufacturing. Things like propellers are on the outside of these ships so as long as no one enters the ship and disturb the remains of the sailors I dont see what the harm is. If the admiralty had not been as naive as to think that no one would eventually remove this stuff they should have done this years ago. This should shock no one. If these people can steal the metal plaques from war memorials stealing a few propellers isn't going to bother them. Unlike war memorials no one could see this stuff anyway.

Johnny,

Re what I have underlined in yours above, seems you may have overlooked the following in the article then (my highlighting)?

"............Video footage of the wrecks shows some of the damage - including thick steel plating peeled outwards under the force of detonations within the hull. Coffee tins are packed with explosives by scavengers and forced into cavities in the vessels' hulls............................................. ..........................While Mr Shaw and the recreational divers who have visited both ships do not enter the wrecks, it is likely that blasting the bottoms out of the vessels will expose the remains of their crews. Some 508 officers and men went down with HMS Repulse, while a further 327 were killed aboard HMS Prince of Wales, which sank just a few miles away."


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  #5  
Old 31-10-2014, 15:33
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phill rose phill rose is offline
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Sad for the remains I know, but would it be too much to hope that there may still be active explosives on board which the scavengers set off and blow themselves to kingdom come.
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  #6  
Old 31-10-2014, 21:03
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Back in 1966, there was much talk about salvaging the ships (both are in relatively shallow water I believe?). We (AJAX) were given the task of laying a marker buoy at the bow and stern of REPULSE (through use of our Sonar). Nothing further came of this and I was always under the impression that the wrecks were classified "war graves" and as such not to be disturbed.

Now it seems that this is not applicable when PROFIT is to be gained.
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  #7  
Old 31-10-2014, 21:32
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Re: Phill Rose's Post.

As the two ships probably sank with their full outfits of main armament ammunition onboard and most right-thinking men would not touch it with a 10ft boat hook even now, I'd say that he might have a good chance of seeing his wish come true.

Watch this Spaaaaaaaace!!!!!

GK
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2014, 10:00
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

It seems that this 29 January 1943, during Operation Ke, the New Zealand naval minesweepers, HMNZS Kiwi and Moa, intercepted and wrecked her after a surface battle at Kamimbo Bay, Guadalcanal.

Circa 1970: An Australian treasure hunter in search of valuable metals blew up the bow section of the I-1. This caused much damage since live torpedoes were still inside. The bow section of the sub is still there, but split open. The front one-third of the submarine is destroyed but the remaining section is still intact. The I-1 lies with her bow in 45 feet (14 m) and her stern in 90 feet (27 m) of water.

I wonder what is left today ?

Brian
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2014, 21:04
Kevin Denlay Kevin Denlay is offline
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Salt View Post
Circa 1970: An Australian treasure hunter in search of valuable metals blew up the bow section of the I-1. This caused much damage since live torpedoes were still inside. The bow section of the sub is still there, but split open. The front one-third of the submarine is destroyed but the remaining section is still intact. The I-1 lies with her bow in 45 feet (14 m) and her stern in 90 feet (27 m) of water.

I wonder what is left today ? Brian
Hi Brian,

If my memory serves me well that above description of the wreck of I-1 is incorrect - even for 1970 - and somewhat contradictory (specifically, "The bow section of the sub is still there, but split open. The front one-third of the submarine is destroyed (??? that is the bow!) but the remaining section is still intact." Realise probably not 'your reporting' as it were, as assume you found that written somewhere .

Anyway, for the record, having dived the sub many years ago, the bow section is obliterated / gone and it is the stern section that is split / flayed completely open. And actually, almost nothing of it remains 'intact' with anything of value long gone. One can swim through what remains easily. However what's left is still dived occasionally today as far as I am aware, although more so is her 'tormentor' HMNZS Moa (T233, over in Tulagi harbour), which was sunk along with USS Kanawha (an oiler, A-01) and USS Aaron Ward (a destroyer, DD-483) in the big Jap air raid of April 7, 1943. Although all were well basically intact when I first dived them (circa 1993) all now are sadly suffering the ravages of time to a massive extent, especially so Aaron Ward. Still I can attest to them ALL having been great world class dives, save for the remains of the sub which, being a shadow of her former self, was / is worth only a dive or two at most.

PS. Although the 'work' those salvors did is long before my diving time, I did get to know them (one is still alive and diving in the Solomon's, and elsewhere, today), and the tales they could tell were simply HAIR-RAISING!
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  #10  
Old 02-11-2014, 09:21
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Thanks Kevin for that interesting update, you must have had some interesting dives. Correct, I repeated that sentence from another source .. which is obviously years out of date. http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/subs/I-1.html

Cheers
Brian
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  #11  
Old 23-05-2016, 17:25
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Default Destruction of Wargraves

I have just today read a newspaper article concerning the destruction of the wrecks of the RN and Imperial German ships that fought in the Battle of Jutland by a Dutch Salvage Company. According to the article they have removed one of the 30 ton Copper Condensers from the wreck of HMS Queen Mary and other items. Also according to the article the MOD and the Navy are keeping quiet about the subject and have not intervened to prevent from happening. I think it is absolutely disgraceful this is being allowed to happen

Last edited by sumochipmonk : 23-05-2016 at 20:07.
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  #12  
Old 23-05-2016, 21:26
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Thats disturbing news and, after your post, I found an article about it, complete with photos of the items taken. I hope action is taken against those involved.

Jim
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  #13  
Old 23-05-2016, 23:11
Domino Domino is offline
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

taken from http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?10779
Quote:
Allen Tony 20/04/2009
Queen Mary HMS wreck was discovered in 1991 and rests partly upside-down, on sand, 60 metres down. Much equipment is scattered about the wreck. Queen Mary is designated as a protected place under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986
at 60m surely not too difficult a dive subject to weather

question is how to police such wrecks. Believe the USN has a similar problem with it's ships lost in the Pacific.

rgds
Dom
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  #14  
Old 03-11-2017, 17:02
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emason emason is online now
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Not news I know, but an article covering the same subject from the Guardian website:

Quote:
The world's biggest grave robbery: Asia’s disappearing WWII shipwrecks

The unmarked graves of thousands of sailors are threatened by illegal metal salvagers

Dozens of warships believed to contain the remains of thousands of British, American, Australian, Dutch and Japanese servicemen from the second world war have been illegally ripped apart by salvage divers, the Guardian can reveal.

An analysis of ships discovered by wreck divers and naval historians has found that up to 40 second world war-era vessels have already been partially or completely destroyed. Their hulls might have contained the corpses of 4,500 crew.

Governments fear other unmarked graves are at risk of being desecrated. Hundreds more ships – mostly Japanese vessels that could contain the war graves of tens of thousands of crew killed during the war – remain on the seabed.

The rusted 70-year-old wrecks are usually sold as scrap but the ships also contain valuable metals such as copper cables and phosphor bronze propellors.

Experts said grave diggers might be looking for even more precious treasures – steel plating made before the nuclear testing era, which filled the atmosphere with radiation. These submerged ships are one of the last sources of “low background steel”, virtually radiation-free and vital for some scientific and medical equipment.

. . . . . .
Full article and photographs:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng...ww2-shipwrecks
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  #15  
Old 03-11-2017, 18:35
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Pelican Pelican is offline
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Exclamation Re: Destruction of Wargraves

F.E.S. WAR GRAVES

I have posted an article "The world's biggest grave robbery: Asia’s disappearing WWII shipwrecks.
Exclusive: the unmarked graves of thousands of sailors are threatened by illegal metal salvagers" on the 'HMAS Perth ransacked by illegal scavengers' thread.


But in case some members have not seen it please see - https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng...rld_b-gdnworld
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2017, 12:07
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Exclamation Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Battling thieves to save battleship HMS Prince of Wales at the bottom of the sea

A British diver has been given some royal appreciation for his efforts to save a sunken Royal Navy battleship from metal thieves.
HMS Prince of Wales was sunk in 1941 by the Japanese and is now at the bottom of the South China Sea off the coast of Malaysia.
Prince Charles – the current holder of the title for the male heir to the throne, the Prince of Wales – thanked Stephen Flew, who has been diving to the upturned ship – a war grave – on the sea bed.
The warship is regularly targeted by thieves who steal its metal.
Mr Flew, who has a day job in petro-chemicals, works with the Malaysian Navy – and reports his sightings of any new damage.
Sea patrols are then dispatched to protect HMS Prince of Wales.

Continues at - http://www.itv.com/news/2017-11-07/b...om-of-the-sea/
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2017, 15:04
Kevin Denlay Kevin Denlay is offline
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Prince Charles – the current holder of the title for the male heir to the throne, the Prince of Wales – thanked Stephen Flew, who has been diving to the upturned ship – a war grave – on the sea bed.
A personal friend of mine, Steve that is, not Charlie, who was with us when we discovered HIJMS Haguro in the Malacca Strait back in 2003, and along for a dive or three in the Java Sea as well .

He is also 'co-ordinating' with other 'agencies' with the intent of gathering more evidence to prosecute the known salvagers of said RN vessels and others off Malaysia.

Good on you Steve!!!
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2017, 18:07
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Default Re: Destruction of Wargraves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Denlay View Post
A personal friend of mine, Steve that is, not Charlie, who was with us when we discovered HIJMS Haguro in the Malacca Strait back in 2003, and along for a dive or three in the Java Sea as well .

He is also 'co-ordinating' with other 'agencies' with the intent of gathering more evidence to prosecute the known salvagers of said RN vessels and others off Malaysia.

Good on you Steve!!!
As they say 'small world.'
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