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  #1  
Old 20-11-2011, 00:42
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Default The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School)

In the 'FOST; 6 to 8 weeks at Portland....' thread I recently posted the fact that closure of HMS Sea Eagle and the JASS was discussed in parliament Dec 1965. This intention to close the facility was/is particularily poignant since I served in one of the four ships assigned to the Derry Sqdn in the 62/63 period.

I found the JASS to be an extremely interesting facility to be associated with especially having had to attend for briefings before exercises (CASEX's) and returned on completion of same for the de-brief, or as we would say in the RN 'for the wash-up'. It was a real 'theatre' where combined operational co-operation and expertise between & with RAF, RN & visiting NATO participants would be exercised/evident/encouraged.

In addition to the experiences of the resident Anti-Submarine Derry squadron ships and their respective crew, there have been numerouis references by ex RN forum members posted on a variety of threads relating to ships sent to the area for anti-submarine training/refreshers.

This thread has been opened, rather than infiltrate the 'FOST; to 8 weeks at Portland....' thread with posts from members expressing their experiences of dedicated anti-submarine warfare exercises running out of Derry into the East Atlantic and up the Clyde estuary.

here are a couple of extracts from the National Archives:-

Reports and notes from the Royal Navy Operational Evaluation Group (initially an anti-submarine warfare unit but later involved in Fleet-wide tactical development and weapons evaluation), from the Joint Anti-Submarine School (JASS) which administered it, and from the Submarine Tactics and Weapons Group (STWG) which was formed to take over submarine tactical development and in-service tactical weapon firing evaluations.

Some of the acronyms used within this series are: ASW (anti-submarine warfare); AUTEC (Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Center); ECM (electronic countermeasures); MATCH (Medium-range Anti-submarine Torpedo Carrying Helicopter); PASSEX (Passing Exercise); SSK (conventional submarine); SSN (nuclear submarine); VECTAC (vectored attack).
---------
The Joint Anti-Submarine School (JASS) was established as HMS Sea Eagle in Londonderry, Northern Ireland, shortly after the end of the Second World War to teach tactical doctrine and conduct anti-submarine warfare (ASW) exercises. In about 1956 the RAF started to analyse aircraft ASW exercises and as this initiative blossomed, Royal Navy (RN) officers joined to analyse ship and submarine ASW exercises. In 1961 a joint RN/RAF Operational Evaluation Group (OEG) was set up as an autonomous analysis group, administered by JASS.

In 1969 the RAF detached from the OEG to form a NIMROD evaluation staff in the Long Range Maritime Patrol cell under the Central Tactics and Trials Organisation (CTTO) at Northwood, Middlesex. OEG continued as an RN group, OEG(RN), at Londonderry until 1970 when HMS Sea Eagle closed. OEG then moved to Northwood, still primarily an ASW unit, under the control first of the Directorate of Naval Surface Weapons (DNSW) and, later, the Directorate of Naval Warfare (DNW). In January 1972 it came under the control of CINCFLEET (Commander-in-Chief, Fleet) and its interests became Fleet-wide. It remained as OEG(RN) until about 1984 when, following lessons learned from the Falklands Campaign, it was reformed with some changes as the Fleet Operational Analysis Staff (FOAS). In 1984 FOAS moved to Fort Blockhouse, Gosport, as part of the Maritime Warfare Centre (MWC).

Throughout the period, the work of OEG and its successors was mainly on tactical development and weapons evaluation. Up to 1974, OEG(RN)'s work covered naval air, surface-ship and some submarine topics served by a small pro-submarine team.

Meanwhile the Submarine Tactical Development Group (STDG) was formed in 1966 at the Clyde Submarine Base, Faslane. In 1974, the Submarine Tactics and Weapons Group (STWG) was formed from STDG and a weapons trial group, to take over submarine tactical development and in-service tactical weapon firing evaluations. STWG was split in late-1994, the tactical development part joining the MWC at Gosport and the weapon evaluation part now termed the Submarine Weapons Group remaining at Faslane.

The Joint Anti-Submarine School (JASS) was disbanded in 1971 and replaced by the Joint Maritime Operational Training Staff, based initially at RAF Turnhouse in Scotland but moved to Northwood Joint Headquarters in 1996.

------
from:-
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...ployment.ht m

Little h
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Old 20-11-2011, 23:26
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

JASS and maritime aircraft from RAF Ballykelly

Some extracts reflecting the long association between the RN, NATO navies and the RAF ASW sqdn's based at Ballykelly. Especially that friendly companion in the sky, the Avro Shackleton (various Mk's). See:-

(start of extracts)
------
On the formation of NATO, the United Kingdom assumed a major anti-submarine role across the eastern Atlantic and North Sea areas. During the latter stages of the war an anti-submarine tactics school had been established at the Londonderry Naval Base, and afterwards this idea was further developed into what became known as the Joint Anti-Submarine School (JASS). Commanded jointly by RN and RAF personnel, JASS was officially opened on 30 January 1947. The unit had its own air elements, Royal Navy Barracudas of No.744 Sqn., based at Eglinton and the RAF's JASS Flight, based at a now re-opened Ballykelly, initially equipped with two Lancasters, one Warwick and one Anson. The task at JASS was to run courses to train the crews of ships and aircraft in the broader aspects of anti-submarine warfare, with emphasis on the development and application of combined tactics. There is more about JASS later.

Another unit, which was based around this time, was the Air Sea Warfare Development Unit (ASWDU), arriving from Thorney Island on 27 May 1948. The Unit's task was the development and testing of new maritime equipment, and in the course of this work had used a variety of aircraft types, but by the time it settled in at Ballykelly was mainly equipped with Lancasters.
-------
With the expansion of the RAF's maritime strength, a new aircraft was being specifically developed for the task. This aircraft was, of course, the Shackleton developed by Avro from the Lancaster and Lincoln but a very different aircraft indeed. A number of bases in the UK were chosen to house the future Shackleton squadrons and Ballykelly, situated at the western extremity of the British Isles, was one of them. The plan was that the Shackleton should be used on the long ocean patrols into the Atlantic, with Gibraltar, St.Eval and Aldergrove earmarked as bases as well as Ballykelly.
--------
All Shackletons delivered initially to Ballykelly were Mark 1‚€™s, with the ASV 13 radar scanner situated under the nose and a single non-retractable tailwheel. The Mark 2 was following closely behind and featured a more streamlined nose containing two 20mm cannon, with the scanner being moved amidships behind the weapons bay, which gave 360-degree search capability. A retractable twin tailwheel was introduced, with bays for vertical and oblique camera installations positioned just forward of a glazed observation position in the tailcone.
-------
The Shackleton‚€™s main task was maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare. Search equipment comprised the ASV 13 radar, which could pick up a decent target up to a range of 40 miles in favourable sea conditions from an altitude of 1000ft. Poor sea conditions could, however, severely curtail the effectiveness of the radar return. On confirmation of a contact, a pattern of sonobuoys would be laid over the location and the position of the underwater contact deduced from the sounds picked up by the sonobuoys. At this stage sonobuoys were of the passive variety i.e. they only received sound from other sources, and did not transmit any sound signals of their own which could be bounced back off an underwater object. An attack would then be made using depth charges or, later and much less often, acoustic torpedoes.
--------

(Joining the Derry Sqdn ships for the up to three weeks going around the triangle!!!! - my comment)

--------
A typical operational sortie, if there was such a thing, could be a fifteen hour navigational exercise (Navex) over a triangular course over the North Atlantic usually at levels down to 1000ft or less in all weathers day or night, finishing with a practice homing and simulated attack on No.9 radar buoy moored off the north coast. Standard height for the attack was 300ft at night, and 100ft in daylight. Take off Runway 27, climb out, right turn over Lough Foyle with County Donegal to the left and Ben Twitch to the right. Cross the coast over Magilligan Strand with the Point under the left wingtip, steer for Inishtrahull Light and out over the Atlantic. Conditions aboard were noisy and uncomfortable, and on long flights over the sea things could become somewhat boring but the Shackleton, despite the lack of crew comfort, was a sturdy aircraft and proved to be a very good submarine hunter.
--------
Much closer to home as far as the Ballykelly squadrons were concerned, was the annual three-week visit to JASS. This involved ground instruction in tactics and techniques, followed by theoretical exercises at HMS Sea Eagle, the naval shore establishment in Londonderry. The practical side would then follow involving ships, submarines and aircraft from NATO countries operating in the Northwest approaches. At the end of each phase all personnel would return to Sea Eagle, find out how well or badly they did and argue about the outcomes! The object of the exercise was to constantly develop and improve the techniques involved in the combined air/sea approach to anti-submarine warfare, vital as the Soviet Union was constantly improving and enlarging its submarine force. Of course there was a fair amount of light hearted banter at the same time- RAF aircrew were constantly amused by naval reference to ‚€œgoing ashore‚€Ě and ‚€œwaiting for the liberty boat‚€Ě in reference to a shore establishment! Needless to say, the navy was not amused at this attempted mockery of deeply cherished naval custom.
--------
(end of extracts)

taken from:-
http://www.avroshackleton.com/Ballykelly.html

I found the contents of the whole site to be a good read!!

Little h
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Old 21-11-2011, 00:26
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

How very remiss of me to have neglected to include in the previous post, an extract (from previous link) relating to the 62/63 Derry Squadrons' friendly going ashore taxi service ... the Marine Craft Unit, or as we knew them - the RAF air/sea rescue boats!! See:-

(start of extract)
--------
Another RAF unit not previously mentioned but which played an important part in the local operations undertaken by the Ballykelly squadrons, was No.1105 Marine Craft Unit. The unit was first based in Londonderry, up near Craigavon Bridge beside the Royal Navy‚€™s seaward defence squadron base. It was equipped with three marine craft of differing sizes and was responsible for retrieval of various stores dropped from aircraft off the coast, and many other related duties. The unit moved to Portrush in March 1964 to be closer to its area of operations, and finally disbanded there on 1 April 1971. The craft, Nos.1662; 1378 and 2770 actually left Portrush Harbour for the last time on 5 March.
--------
(end of extract)

Great way to get ashore (to 'Derry) from Lisahally jetty. Thanks lads!!

Little h
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Old 30-12-2011, 22:07
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

The Londonderry Squadron 1950's - 1960's;

As included in the opening thread, in the early '60's, I served on the Falmouth F113, as one of the 4 'permanent' ships in the red hand squadron which also included Yarmouth F102 Capt F20 and 2 x Blackwood Class Type 14 frigates.

When not going around the triangle on anti-submarind exercises with other NATO warships, rathar than berthing at the end of Lough Foyle at Lisahally, our preferred berthing location would be up the Foyle alongside the jetties at the Quays on the outskirts of Londonderry. (ready for the quick get away for the weekend)

That said, I have failed to find one photograph of either the resident Derry Sqdn ships or other RN and NATO visiting ships berthed up the river. There are a few photographs spread around the forum, of ships alongide the pier(s) at Lisahally but none up the river. There are also pictorial examples of the smaller ships and Air Sea Rescue boats alongside in Derry at their pier.

By way of a clue I include a couple of extracts and a link to The Londonderry Port and Harbourmasters site:-

-----------------------
Retired Foyle Pilot, Charlie McCann

When I began as a pilot in the 60s, there was still a lot of naval traffic, especially with NATO fleet activity up and down the Foyle. At peak times like during NATO exercises, we were piloting about 18-20 vessels a day. There were US, British, Dutch and Norwegian ships and submarines coming through. The submarines were difficult to pilot because you were out in the open.
---------
John Purdy, Assistant Port Engineer 1956-1958

On the day I arrived in Derry from Markethill to begin work at the Port, the warship HMS Scorpion crashed into the quay at No 6 berth, near to where Tesco is located today. Scorpion was turning in the river at the time when the engine room received a signal for “slow speed astern” but read it as “full speed ahead” so the vessel went full speed ahead – into the quayside! The ship smashed the timber quay and knocked down two cranes, so the next morning – my first day in the new job – I had to go down to the quayside, measure up the damage and begin working on the plans for the repairs.

(my note; below this extracted piece of text is a pic with warships in the middle distance - they are at the location to which I refer)
---------
Gordon Wilson, Company Secretary/Accountant 1966-1998

I worked at the port for 42 years, joining in 1956 more or less straight from school.........

When the Royal Navy was still based here, navies from the USA, Canada, Norway and Holland often came when they were carrying out NATO exercises. They would come into Port to refuel and also for rest and recreation. If you went to a dance at that time, the place would be full of sailors. I met a man in Gosport, near Portsmouth a few years after I retired and he had many memories of the Embassy Ballroom.

But gradually as the size of the ships changed, it meant that the quay – from Guildhall Square up as far as the Strand Road - became no longer suitable for the larger ones.
--------------------------
see:-
http://www.londonderryport.com/john.htm

see also the following attachment from another site (US Military radio facility), the warships are away in the background so a bit of zooming/enlargement is required, but it identifies the location.

There are various sites about visiting ships/navies to Derry including visiting submarines but again... no pictures!!

Hope somebody can come up with some photograph and perhaps even some further info on the 'Quay demolition' by Scorpion.

Little h
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File Type: jpg Derry naval base 1960 jvs291.jpg (136.0 KB, 82 views)
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Old 31-12-2011, 09:04
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Harry

I spent a short period with the 'Derry squadron in 1962 onboard RFA Wave Chief . When the frigates went down to Lisahhally, we had to anchor way back because of our draft. Somehow it was always opposite Moville, which had a small pub serving Guiness or Irish Whiskey ! There developed my taste for Guiness, the real stuff !

Brian
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Old 31-12-2011, 20:46
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

I have just posted a link to the former USN Communicators Site(s) which had facilities at/near Derry 1942-77. The attachment in post #4 (this thread) was 'borrowed' from the History of U.S. NAVCOMMSTA Londonderry page.

Whilst browsing the site I also found some pictures of ships up the Foyle at the Derry naval base.

Little h
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Old 31-12-2011, 21:16
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

By 1967-68, Derry Squadron consisted of TWO ships..............NAIAD & CHICHESTER!, must have ceased to exist shortly after?
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Old 31-12-2011, 21:58
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Cheers for that Scurs mate,

At end July 1969, HMQ presentation of new Colour to the Western Fleet at Torbay, has the following three ships in the Derry Squadron attending the review:-
Phoebe F42 Capt D(?); Llandaff F61 & Keppel F85

Little h
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Old 31-12-2011, 22:46
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Just a small sample of the photos of ships berthed up the Foyle in Derry from the U.S. NAVCOMMSTA Londonderry site.

Pic #1 a Destroyer and an LST

Pic #2 as pic #1 but with 2 x destroyers (or perhaps Type 16 frigates) further upstream nearer the City.

Pic #3 LST Submarine Tender with 2 x boats outboard
(one of a number submitted by former USN Radioman Wade)

Pic #4 Minesweepers moored further upstream


The missing credits for pics #1; #2 & #4 will be added immediately I recover the information from the USN site)

Little h
Attached Images
File Type: jpg derry ships 1 od75.jpg (35.5 KB, 97 views)
File Type: jpg derry ships 2 od74.jpg (37.4 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg derry ships 3 BritTenderSub.jpg (26.1 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg derry ships 4 od106.jpg (73.3 KB, 72 views)
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:54
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Interesting read about my home town. Thanks for posting.
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Old 01-01-2012, 19:58
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Post #8 attachments;

USN Radioman Gene Graeff is credited with providing Pics #1; #2 & #4 on the US NavCommsSta Londonderry website.

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Old 01-01-2012, 20:00
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Quote:
Originally Posted by saintconor View Post
Interesting read about my home town. Thanks for posting.
Your most welcome

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Old 02-01-2012, 15:39
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Served aboard the frigate ZEST which had the Red Hand OF ULSTER on the funnel,that was 1956/7 and based at Londonderry, my first visit was in 1954 aboard the WHITESAND Bay but she was`nt attached to the Derry Flotilla,I believe the WIZARD was astern of us along with 2 ex German U-Boats serving in Norway`s navy.
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Old 03-01-2012, 17:25
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

post 9 - the LST is Stalker which spent some years at Londonderry as a submarine depot ship. In pic 4 I think the vessels are Flower class corvettes rather than minesweepers.
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Old 03-01-2012, 23:18
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Quote:
Originally Posted by buggins View Post
post 9 - the LST is Stalker which spent some years at Londonderry as a submarine depot ship. In pic 4 I think the vessels are Flower class corvettes rather than minesweepers.
Thanks Buggins,

It is unlikely that I would ever have recalled the name of the depot ship for the boats.

With regard to pic #4; would it be your opinion that the vessels moored facing downstream are larger than those in the next berth facing upstream? The group moored facing upstream appear to me to be smaller.

Little h
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:45
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

I actually have a wardroom pic from Feb1949 of the staff of JASS, No11 JTC, Sea Eagle, from my father's papers. On the back it says something like "Crown Copyright, don't publish without permission" The pic has USN and RAF as well as RN officers. Will the FBI/CIA Homeland Security come after me if I post it? The picture has everyone named at the bottom.
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Old 16-01-2012, 11:37
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Hi,
I just happened to come across this site when doing some research into other things and the "Derry Squadron"title in this thread caught my eye.
I wrote the article from which Harry Gibbon has provided extracts, I thought some of the wording seemed familiar! As a schoolboy in Derry/Londonderry (it is customary to provide both versions these days), I spent much more time than I should noting the arrival and departure of warships from the port at Derry from late 1963 to closure of the naval base. I also have a lot of photos which should please Harry, not of the quality you would expect to-day, but not too bad. When I scan them and figure out how to post them, I will provide a selection.
I also have fairly complete lists of the ships assigned to the locally based squadron which evolved thus
3rd Training Flotilla
3rd Training Squadron
20th Frigate Squadron
Londonderry Squadron
All ships wore the red hand badge on the funnel

Cheers for now

David
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Old 16-01-2012, 12:26
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetex61 View Post
Hi,
I just happened to come across this site when doing some research into other things and the "Derry Squadron"title in this thread caught my eye.
I wrote the article from which Harry Gibbon has provided extracts, I thought some of the wording seemed familiar! As a schoolboy in Derry/Londonderry (it is customary to provide both versions these days), I spent much more time than I should noting the arrival and departure of warships from the port at Derry from late 1963 to closure of the naval base. I also have a lot of photos which should please Harry, not of the quality you would expect to-day, but not too bad. When I scan them and figure out how to post them, I will provide a selection.
I also have fairly complete lists of the ships assigned to the locally based squadron which evolved thus
3rd Training Flotilla
3rd Training Squadron
20th Frigate Squadron
Londonderry Squadron
All ships wore the red hand badge on the funnel

Cheers for now

David
David/Jetex61,

May I extend to you a very warm welcome to the forum.

Thank you for taking the time to become involved in the thread and your photographs will be most welcome I am sure.

Little h
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Old 18-01-2012, 13:39
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Hi all
As promised here are some pics of warships visiting Londonderry in connection with various JASS exercises. Of the foreign contingents, I think the RCN were the most frequent visitors, followed by the Dutch and Norwegians.
David
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Athabaskan 6-64.jpg (135.9 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg Isaac Sweers 6-68.jpg (175.5 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg Juno 7-68.jpg (132.7 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg Leander 6-64.jpg (254.5 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg Leander;Algonquin 6-64.jpg (250.8 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Margaree 6-68.jpg (136.4 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Ocelot 7-69.jpg (140.5 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg Sea Owl;Sea Robin 6-67.jpg (143.7 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg Uthaug 7-68.jpg (127.2 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Ottawa 6-68.jpg (148.2 KB, 32 views)
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Old 18-01-2012, 13:50
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Cool Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Your photographs are excellent quality prints and presented beautifully.Thank you for sharing your "haul" with us.

jainso31

Last edited by astraltrader : 24-01-2012 at 20:17.
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Old 18-01-2012, 14:23
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

David,

Thank you for your selection of photographs, much appreciated.

Looking out for some of the 'local' squadron ships with the red hand adorning the funnel.

Little h
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Old 18-01-2012, 14:34
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

will see if I can comply
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Old 18-01-2012, 15:15
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Here are some pics of locally based ships at various times - Falmouth, Yarmouth and Whitby, Red Hand not terribly clear, I'm afraid, plus some others.

Both Taranaki and Otago did a JASS course before sailing for New Zealand.
Will look out some more.
David
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File Type: jpg Chichester 6-68.jpg (203.9 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg Falmouth, Rorqual 11-63.jpg (191.6 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg Whitby 6-68.jpg (186.0 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg Whitby 10-67.jpg (138.6 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg Yarmouth 6-64.jpg (172.1 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Unidentified SDB 60-61.jpg (207.0 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg Taranaki 1960.jpg (164.3 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg Alaric, Alliance 60-61.jpg (139.1 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Oracle, Ula 1-68.jpg (157.4 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg Drenthe, Zeeland 9-66.jpg (180.1 KB, 16 views)
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  #24  
Old 18-01-2012, 15:22
rumrat's Avatar
rumrat rumrat is offline
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

YARMOUTH as Captain F Derry Squadron 1964-65
Shown Entering Portsmouth
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  #25  
Old 18-01-2012, 15:53
Jetex61 Jetex61 is offline
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Default Re: The Derry Squadron, JASS (Joint Anti-Submarine Training School) and what followed

Nice picture, do you have exact date?
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