World Naval Ships Forums  
CURRENT SPECIAL OFFERS ON OUR HUGE SELECTION OF ART PRINTS!

Go Back   World Naval Ships Forums > Naval History > US Navy Ships and Crews
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

US Navy Ships and Crews Topics relating to a specific American ship or ships.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-07-2011, 14:47
Abbeywood. Abbeywood. is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: East Cowes, Isle of Wight, UK.
Posts: 246
Default USS Agerholm, DD-826

The 'Agerholm' was a Gearing class destroyer which appeared on the active lists of the Navy, after the end of WW2.
She was built at the Bath Ironworks yard and launched on 30th March 1946.
but enough of the facts and figures.

On the 11th May 1962 she was the designated test ship to launch the first, (and only), nuclear Depth-charge, (sic), as part of Operation 'Dominic'
Most of the tests in the programme appear to have been air-dropped and the only one on the given date was a submarine test named 'Swordfish' which took place approx' 400 miles west of San Diego and which is described as 'a full-scale ASROC/w-44 ASW rocket proof test'.
This leads me to wonder if this was the test involving 'Agerholm', or if the weapon she tested was a modified coventional shaped depth-charge.
Also, bearing in mind the necessity of depth-charges to sink fair rapidly, to have any effect on the intended sub', what would have been the minimum safety range to avoid damage to a) the launcher, and b) the crew thereof.
As 'Agerholm' was active until 1978, there might just be some person, or persons who would have served in her in the '60's, who are not bound by any security screen, and who could develop this posting.

Many thanks to the Moderators for their best wishes.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-07-2011, 15:40
WGVSr WGVSr is offline
Vice Commodore
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 726
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

Pete:
I seem to remember it being mated to an ASROC [antisubmarine rocket] body. No idea on the yield though. There is one fairly famous picture extant of the test and the blast is a good ways away from Agerholm.
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-07-2011, 16:32
Don Boyer's Avatar
Don Boyer Don Boyer is offline
Forum Moderator.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Haleiwa, Hawaii (North Shore of Oahu)
Posts: 3,676
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

The early ASROC used what is commonly referred to as the "Tsetse primary" a fission warhead utilized in several weapons, including ASROC, as a stand-alone warhead with a maximum yield in this configuration of about 10 kilotons..smaller than the Hiroshima detonation. In the ASROC configuration the warhead was designated as the MK 44. The same warhead, somewhat modified, was used in the Mk 57 free-fall bomb which could also be used as a depth charge and as the primary in several thermonuclear weapons such as the MK 43. The warhead was one of several of the era capable of using yield-adjusting techniques which could greatly increase the yield of the weapon in other than its depth charge configuration.

Some sources state that Agerholm and the "test" submarine were about two miles from the detonation point. Hard to judge from the existing photograph, but I know from my days in the program that I would not want to hang about 2 miles away from the detonation point of an ASROC for too long once that intensely radioactive water cloud falls back into the sea. And the submarine, if that close, must have gotten a serious jolt.

The photos show the standard 8-cell "matchbox" launcher for the early ASROC as well as an ASROC shipping container and transport dolly from the missile cruiser Columbus and a dummy ASROC on display on the destroyer USS Joseph P. Kennedy, DD-850. The dummy has the MK 46 torpedo warhead, a non-nuclear weapon which became the primary warhead of ASROC in it's later configurations. ASROC is now used in a vertical launch configuration for all modern warships, with a greatly improved non-nuclear warhead package.
__________________
Don Boyer, GMT-2,
USS Bon Homme Richard (CVA-31)

"With 2000 years of examples behind us we have no excuse, when fighting, for not fighting well." T.E. Lawrence
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-07-2011, 18:25
WGVSr WGVSr is offline
Vice Commodore
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 726
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

Rummaging through some reference material [Bob Sumrall's "Sumner-Gearing-Class Destroyers"] I find the ASROC had a range of about 10,000 yards and could utilize the Mk 44 or 46 torpedo as a warhead or an Mk 17 [nuclear/modified B57 bomb] depth charge. I agree with Don, even at max range, 6 miles is way too close for me to a detonating nuke.
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-07-2011, 22:45
John Odom John Odom is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chattanooga TN
Posts: 1,269
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

In those days the hazard of radioactive material/radiation was way underestimated.
__________________
John Odom
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-07-2011, 23:39
Don Boyer's Avatar
Don Boyer Don Boyer is offline
Forum Moderator.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Haleiwa, Hawaii (North Shore of Oahu)
Posts: 3,676
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

If TEPCO's any example, it's still being underestimated today!

Re the ASROC warhead package, the MK 17 depth charge carried the MK 44 warhead as was said, a variation of the B57 warhead type. And six miles seems far more reasonable to me than the two I posted -- not sure where I saw that number. Six I could live with.
__________________
Don Boyer, GMT-2,
USS Bon Homme Richard (CVA-31)

"With 2000 years of examples behind us we have no excuse, when fighting, for not fighting well." T.E. Lawrence
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-07-2011, 04:39
Abbeywood. Abbeywood. is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: East Cowes, Isle of Wight, UK.
Posts: 246
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

Thanks for the Info'. chaps.
While on the subject, I recognise that there was a certain, - nay, considerable, - amount of ignorance in those early days of playing around with nuke devices, with regard to the safety of personel, etc.
Assuming a weapon was dropped in earnest, on a SSN, would not the detonation of the ASROC missile create a further chain reaction with the sub's reactor. In my own opinion, yes , but you experienced ex-salts may wish to differ.
Last evening I watched a National Geographic documentary 'The Worlds Biggest Bomb' about the Bravo test carried out at the Bikini Atoll, Marshall Islands, where a submerged device was initiated in the lagoon from an bunker on the opposite side, by a special crew. who were hermetically sealed in. The only problem on their part was that after the detonation they had no means of safe recovery as they were meant to leave the bunker and board a helicopter thus exposing themselve to the fall-out.
Also on the receiving end was the USS 'Curtiss',(AVB-4) which was approx 35miles away also the recipient of fall-out.
Interesting programme
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-07-2011, 05:46
Don Boyer's Avatar
Don Boyer Don Boyer is offline
Forum Moderator.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Haleiwa, Hawaii (North Shore of Oahu)
Posts: 3,676
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

The test you refer to was a test of the early Teller-Ulam thermonuclear device using a dry lithium-deuterium secondary device. if I remember correctly, the yield was around 15 megatons, the largest US detonation, covered in Richard Rhodes "Dark Sun". The largest detonation ever was the Soviet test of a down-graded thermonuclear device that produced 58 megatons. A totally unnecessary test, of course. Just Soviet PR at its best. The largest US weapon was the old Mark 17, with an expected yield around 21 megatons. Never used, of course, and testing it wasn't necessary as its components had already been tested to death in other devices. Theoretically, a thermonuclear weapon has no top end, unlike a fission bomb, which tops out at about 500 kilotons max.
__________________
Don Boyer, GMT-2,
USS Bon Homme Richard (CVA-31)

"With 2000 years of examples behind us we have no excuse, when fighting, for not fighting well." T.E. Lawrence
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-07-2011, 17:34
WGVSr WGVSr is offline
Vice Commodore
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 726
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

The Bravo shot was the last on Bikini. If you want to read more on the Bikini tests, try Johnathan Weisgall's "Operation Crossroads' [ISBN 1-55750-919-0]. The book's a little biased, Weisgall was the Bikinians' attorney through the '70s and '80s, but read critically the book is good commentary on the Bikini tests and has a chapter on the Mike and Bravo shots.
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-07-2011, 18:22
Don Boyer's Avatar
Don Boyer Don Boyer is offline
Forum Moderator.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Haleiwa, Hawaii (North Shore of Oahu)
Posts: 3,676
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

Bill, I agree -- a somewhat biased but good book on the Bikini Atoll testing.

I've always found it interesting that there was so much angst over the US using the bombs in wartime at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, yet world governments blasted away for years "testing" weapons all over the place anyway, despite continued protests that so many were hardly necessary (and they weren't). The nuclear components of the various weapons, fission or fusion, were highly reliable. The testing was of the delivery systems and other components of the system, much of which could have been done with just the high explosive and a dummy "pit" since the functions of the actual nuclear components were highly reliable and unlikely to fail if all else operated according to plan.

Cold War saber rattling at its best. Mutually Assured Destruction would have been just that had it ever come down to it, as the Soviets finally figured out during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Now we have a world full of idiots who think possessing nuclear weapons will preserve their dysfunctional communist lifestyle or make Islam dominant in the courts of world opinion. Nuts.

Of course this comes from someone who spent years working on nuclear and thermonuclear weapons...
__________________
Don Boyer, GMT-2,
USS Bon Homme Richard (CVA-31)

"With 2000 years of examples behind us we have no excuse, when fighting, for not fighting well." T.E. Lawrence
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 29-10-2011, 06:52
ludsie ludsie is offline
Lieutenant-Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 357
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

Good point Don to use Nuclear weapons again would be a complete act of madness
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 29-10-2011, 21:45
battlestar's Avatar
battlestar battlestar is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fremantle, Australia
Posts: 559
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

Quote:
Originally Posted by ludsie View Post
Good point Don to use Nuclear weapons again would be a complete act of madness
Too true, too true...

USS Agerholm (DD-826) was the last of her class to visit Australia (Fremantle) in 1978 (Image). I have the 'Welcome Aboard' booklet for her somewhere...

Battlestar
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AGER78.JPG (266.3 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg C2a.JPG (55.0 KB, 17 views)
__________________
V/R
Ian J. Naval Historian/Author. Fremantle, Western Australia

LIBERTY CALL - Bonds of Friends and Allies - USN Visits to Western Australia 1975 to today


One Perfect Day, October 1988, Fremantle

Facebook Page - United States Navy Visits to Western Australia 1908 to Today
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 30-10-2011, 01:12
Don Boyer's Avatar
Don Boyer Don Boyer is offline
Forum Moderator.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Haleiwa, Hawaii (North Shore of Oahu)
Posts: 3,676
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

Was just cruising through this post once again, and noticed Abbeywood's question regarding a nuclear detonation involving the target submarine's nuclear reactor as part of the chain reaction. This is not possible, even with a direct hit. An A-bomb detonation does all its work inside a millionth of a second or so, then all the energy exchange is a done deal. All the active material involved in the reaction has to be a part of the weapon "pit" -- anything else is too far away to be involved in initial chain reaction in any significant yield-boosting manner. All that might happen, assuming the detonation was close enough to vaporize the casing of the nuclear reactor, would be to add some more nasty radioactive molecules to the mix, which would not significantly increase the "yield" of the weapon in any way -- it would just add to the poisonous fallout laying about, which is plenty bad enough in it's own right.
__________________
Don Boyer, GMT-2,
USS Bon Homme Richard (CVA-31)

"With 2000 years of examples behind us we have no excuse, when fighting, for not fighting well." T.E. Lawrence
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 30-10-2011, 11:27
Abbeywood. Abbeywood. is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: East Cowes, Isle of Wight, UK.
Posts: 246
Default Re: USS Agerholm, DD 826

Greetings, Don,
Just noticed your response to my query, (see post #7), which pretty much answers the question regarding 'nuke' detonations in close proximity to SSN's. For that, I thank you.
Your mention of the Russian super-bomb seems to have coincided with a showing on a UK TV channel, of a documentary about that particular device, apparently named the 'Tsar',
Having disposed of the last Tsar, Tsarina and family in 1917 one can only presumed they intended to re-incarnate them to dispose of the rest of us.
All the Best,(ATB), Pete'
Reply With Quote
Reply



Ship Search by Name : Advanced Search
Random Timeline Entry : 28th January 2005 : HMS Lancaster : Plymouth Sound

NAVAL PRINTS

Click above to see our naval art portal - Eight random half price items are displayed to the right.

Some Current Half Price Offers

 HMS Glorious flying off a Fairey Swordfish at sunset with HMS Ardent off to Starboard.

HMS Glorious by Ivan Berryman. (Y)
Half Price! - £50.00
 A Type VIIC U-Boat slips quietly toward the open sea form her pen at Lorient, France in 1942.

Dawn Departure by Ivan Berryman. (P)
Half Price! - £750.00
HMS Hood makes a turn to port, while in line and astern is HMS Collingwood.  Valetta can be seen in the distance.

HMS Hood at Malta 1896 By Randall Wilson.
Half Price! - £65.00
Midday, 21st October 1805, and Admiral Collingwoods flagship, the 100-gun HMS Royal Sovereign, breaks the allied line and delivers a shattering broadside on the Spanish flagship Santa Anna. Making great speed, Collingwoods ship had breached the Franco-Spanish line some distance ahead of the rest of his van and the Royal Sovereign suffered heavily as she quickly drew the attentions of three French and three Spanish ships. To her starboard, the French Indomitable can be seen firing into the British flagship while, astern of the Santa Anna, Belleisle and Fougueux are engaging ahead of Mars, Monarca and Pluton.

HMS Royal Sovereign at the Battle of Trafalgar by Ivan Berryman.
Half Price! - £15.00

 Launched on 3rd November 1986 and commissioned into the Royal Navy on 14th January 1989, HMS Trenchant (S91) was the fifth of the Trafalgar class nuclear powered submarines and was the first Royal Navy vessel to fire the Block IV Tomahawk cruise missile.  In addition to her complement of missiles, she is also equipped with Spearfish torpedoes and some of the most sophisticated data acquisition and underwater detection systems which allow her to monitor surface vessels undetected.

HMS Trenchant by Ivan Berryman. (P)
Half Price! - £750.00
 The pride of the Royal Navy, HMS Hood, leaves Portsmouth on her way to the Fleet Review of King George V in July 1935. HMS Hood is followed by the destroyer HMS Express.

HMS Hood and HMS Express Departing from Portsmouth 1935 by Ivan Berryman. (Y)
Half Price! - £50.00
B146AP.  HMS Jamaica by Ivan Berryman.

HMS Jamaica by Ivan Berryman (AP)
Half Price! - £25.00
 The Leander class cruiser HMS Orion is shown departing Grand Harbour Malta late in 1945.

HMS Orion by Ivan Berryman. (AP)
Half Price! - £25.00

SPORT PRINTS

Click above to see our sport art portal - Four random half price items are displayed to the right.

Some Current Half Price Offers

 Jim Clark in his Lotus-Ford 38 winning in the record breaking 1965 Indianapolis 500 Mile Classic.

Jim Clark by Ray Goldsbrough.
Half Price! - £75.00


Heroes of Goodison Park by Doug Harker. (Y)
Half Price! - £165.00
 Valentino Rossi at speed on his Repsol Honda.
Rossi at Speed by Derrick Mark.
Half Price! - £25.00
Monte Carlo - June 1st 2003 and Juan Pablo Montoya put in an outstanding drive, pushing his Williams BMW to victory in the Monaco Grand Prix. His triumph in what is possibly the most prestigious race of the season allowed him to celebrate his first win since Italy in 2001.

Harbour Master by Gerald Coulson. (Y)
Half Price! - £82.50

AVIATION PRINTS

Click above to see our aviation art portal - Four random half price items are displayed to the right.

Some Current Half Price Offers

 Two Fairey Firefly F Mk1s of 1770 NAS embarked on HMS Indefatigable are shown outbound on Operation Meridian I on 24th January 1945.  The nearest aircraft is DT947, flown by Vin Redding.  Operation Meridian was a series of two air attacks on Japanese-held oil refineries at Palembang on Sumatra. †The huge aviation fuel output of these refineries was reduced to only a quarter of their output after the two raids†on the 24th and 29th January 1945.

Fairey Firefly F Mk.Is of 1770 Sqn, 1945 by Ivan Berryman. (P)
Half Price! - £700.00
 Pushing the concept of the Spitfire almost to the limit, the sleek F Mk212 represented the ultimate in fighter design at the end of the Second World War. Powered by the mighty Griffon 61 engine driving a five blade propeller, its armament consisted of four 20mm British Hispano Cannon, two in each wing. This example is LA200 (DL-E) of 91 Sqn in 1945.

Spitfire F Mk21 by Ivan Berryman. (E)
Half Price! - £70.00
With HMS Warspite keeping a watchful eye off her port bow, the Illustrious class carrier HMS Formidable prepares to recover a Fairey Albacore TB MK1 of No. 826 sqn. following a vital sortie against Italian shipping at the start of the Battle of Cape Matapan in march 1941. Led by Lt Cdr W G H Saunt DSC, Formidables Albacores launched torpedo attacks on the battleship Vittorio Veneto, seriously damaging her, despite coming under intense anti aircraft fire and a splash barrage of 15-inch shells.

HMS Formidable by Ivan Berryman (P)
Half Price! - £3000.00
DHM265. Desert Prang by Geoff Lea.

Desert Prang by Geoff Lea.
Half Price! - £20.00

MILITARY PRINTS

Click above to see our military art portal - Four random half price items are displayed to the right.

Some Current Half Price Offers

DHM341GL. The Battle of Beda Fomm  by David Rowlands.

The Battle of Beda Fomm by David Rowlands (GL)
Half Price! - £280.00
 Polish 7TP (Twin Turret) light tank of Captain F. Michalowskis training company breaks out from the street barricade to counter attack German reconnaissance elements.

Warsaw, September 1939 by David Pentland.
Half Price! - £40.00
 From their position in a knocked out Soviet T28 tank, the Finnish troops keep up the pressure on the encircled enemy units.

Frozen Hell, Suomussalmi, Finland 1940 by David Pentland.
Half Price! - £50.00
 Central Russia, 4th-12th July 1943. For Operation Citadel the Heavy tank battalion 503 was split into separate companies and attached to various panzer divisions. Rubbels 1st company went to 6th Panzer Division, and as such take part in the epic breakthrough on the 10th and 11th which came close to the collapse of the soviet southern front!

Alfred Rubbel at Kursk by David Pentland.
Half Price! - £80.00
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.