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  #1  
Old 02-08-2017, 20:59
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

I have just read an article concerning these impressive ships which stated that they are not fitted with sonar.

I find it very strange that what would appear to be an otherwise very well-equipped warship of this size would not have a sonar system.

Can anyone confirm (or refute!) whether this class does have a sonar fit?
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:22
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Brian Wentzell Brian Wentzell is offline
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Default Re: Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

Tim: My understanding the class is not fitted with neither sonar nor ASW weapons. The class is intended for surface operations in distant waters. The decision to omit ASW capabilities is very strange given the expansion of submarine fleets around the world.
Brian
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Old 05-08-2017, 16:04
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Navyking Navyking is offline
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Default Re: Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

Hello,

From the article in the URL below

"The frigates have no conventional on-board sonar but instead have a diver and swimmer detection sonar to counter terrorist threats"

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f125-frigate
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Old 05-08-2017, 18:20
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

Thanks to you both for your responses.

I find it incredible that a modern "frigate" of this size would have no onboard ASW capability.

I wonder whether their embarked helicopters (NH 90s) will have such a capability?
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Old 06-08-2017, 19:47
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Brian Wentzell Brian Wentzell is offline
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Default Re: Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

Tim: If the embarked NH 90 is a fully equipped maritime helicopter capable of independent action from its host ship, I suppose it could then be said that the class had an anti-submarine capability but I have not seen anything to that point. I think this class is much like the British sloops of colonial days!
Brian
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Old 06-08-2017, 22:44
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Wentzell View Post
Tim: If the embarked NH 90 is a fully equipped maritime helicopter capable of independent action from its host ship, I suppose it could then be said that the class had an anti-submarine capability but I have not seen anything to that point. I think this class is much like the British sloops of colonial days!
Brian
One would assume they will carry the NFH version (NATO Frigate Helicopter) which appears to have an ASW capability:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/p.../nh90-nfh-asw/
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Old 02-11-2017, 19:38
Urs Heßling Urs Heßling is offline
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Default Re: Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Wentzell View Post
The decision to omit ASW capabilities is very strange given the expansion of submarine fleets around the world.
and as an answer to all other comments going in a similar direction :

It is a Naval Officers wish well known to shipyards to have a warship with all capabilities.
The nickname for that in Germany is "Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" which translates to "Egg-laying and Wool and Milk producing Pig".

It's quite simple : Captain, You won't get it.

The explanation ist that ships are meant to operate not alone, but together, with operational tasks like ASW or AAW quite likely assigned to different ships.

I can understand your concern ref. Sonar equipment as you come from countries with traditional ocean-going navies quite well. It has, however, become a specialty of the German navy within NATO to operate in offshore areas and narrow waters.

The pre-construction analysis was, roughly, that, at the moment, a commitment against an ocean-going enemy with a submarine force is highly unlikely (The GE Navy HAS frigates with ASW capability, nevertheless). A quite possible scenario, however, is a crisis developing up to acts of violence and small-scale war-like acts where ships in an off-shore role can contribute to de-escalate (by threat) as well as terminate violent actions by weapon employment. Thus, yes, the mentioned comparison to RN gun boats ist not far off the mark.

That's more or less was the F 125 is built for. She's that large to be able to proceed world-wide without respect to heavy weather and to remain on-station for an extended period.

As an historical example in this context, I may remind you that the RN had, in the late 70's, with the type 22 the first fighting ship for more than a century without a gun of more than 1,6" which induced comparable critique.

greetings, Urs
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Old 02-11-2017, 20:10
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Default Re: Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

Urs: Does the presence of a helicopter on this class provide some ASW capability or is it only for troop transport and over land surveillance?
Brian
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  #9  
Old 02-11-2017, 22:28
Urs Heßling Urs Heßling is offline
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Default Re: Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

hi,

Brian, you want an honest answer ? Here it is : I don't know.

I'm off-project now for more than seven years. But if I were still "in", I wouldn't tell, of course.

At the moment, I don't know whether the F 125's NH 90 has the ASW capability it is supposed to have or it is simply "fitted for" to receive that equipment or less due to budget cuts.

greetings, Urs
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Old 06-11-2017, 21:05
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Brian Wentzell Brian Wentzell is offline
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Default Re: Baden-Württemberg (F 125) Class Frigates

Urs: Thanks.
Brian
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