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  #1  
Old 13-12-2017, 10:14
majinvash majinvash is offline
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Default HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Hi

My dad served on Blake during part of his Naval career and ended up running much of Haslar.

I have a managed to source a discontinued model of HMS Tiger, which as far as I can tell is the same ship class as Blake.
Plan is to modify where I can and make it into the Blake.

My question is really one of what colours do I need?

I have searched online as much as I can and cannot find any up close colour photos of ship and the deck.
Of the various models i have found, some have a green deck and some are grey. Some have a bluish gray hull and the others normal gray.

I want to be as accurate as possible and wont have a lot of time between it arriving and getting it ready for Xmas.

Any info gladly received.

Thanks

Mat
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  #2  
Old 13-12-2017, 10:35
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jbryce1437 jbryce1437 is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Hello Mat, if you put Blake in the search facility you will find a couple of threads for Blake and others of her class. The threads are littered with photos of her, some in colour.

Jim
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  #3  
Old 13-12-2017, 11:51
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Hi Mat ,

Welcome to our midst . Regarding colours for your conversion Tiger to Blake .

Two greys were used for RN Ships depending on where they were serving , ie , in the tropics as you say it was a light [bluish] grey and in home waters and the Atlantic it was a darker grey . In later years the colour was standardised much to the relief of ship's companies who no longer had to repaint ship when changing from one station to another. The deck colours varied over the years but mainly for the Green with non slip strip on the exposed weather decks.

The quarterdeck [afterdeck] would have been wood.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your build.

Dave H
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  #4  
Old 13-12-2017, 16:18
majinvash majinvash is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Cheers Gents.

I will put up some pictures once it is done.
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  #5  
Old 13-12-2017, 18:01
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Navyking Navyking is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Hi Mat,

Not sure what period of HMS Blake's career you are focusing on but here is a picture of HMS Blake after her conversion to a helicopter carrying Cruiser in 1969, gives a good view of the colours used.

Photograph courtesy of this forum.

Regards

Paul
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HMS Blake_001.jpg (275.8 KB, 40 views)
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  #6  
Old 14-12-2017, 09:23
majinvash majinvash is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Perfect cheers!
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  #7  
Old 15-12-2017, 09:31
medway508 medway508 is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hutson View Post
Hi Mat ,

Welcome to our midst . Regarding colours for your conversion Tiger to Blake .

Two greys were used for RN Ships depending on where they were serving , ie , in the tropics as you say it was a light [bluish] grey and in home waters and the Atlantic it was a darker grey . In later years the colour was standardised much to the relief of ship's companies who no longer had to repaint ship when changing from one station to another. The deck colours varied over the years but mainly for the Green with non slip strip on the exposed weather decks.

The quarterdeck [afterdeck] would have been wood.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your build.

Dave H
Sorry but the Foreign Stations and Home Stations Greys were pre WW2. Since 1945, it has been one grey for all. From 1955 it was BS381C 697 Light Admiralty Grey and from 1968 it has been BSC381C 676 Light Weatherwork Grey. Steel decks were BS4800 14C39 (a dark green, not Humbrol deck green) until 1978 when BS 381C 632 Dark Admiralty Grey was introduced. As Blake decommissioned in 1979, chances are that she never had 632 Grey decks except for her flight deck.

Phoenix Paints, a model bus & railway mob, do these coours in Humbrol sized tinlets and larger ones too.
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  #8  
Old 15-12-2017, 13:34
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

medway 508,

I hope that Mat manages to read your excellent post.

For what my advice is worth: there appear to have been two "greens" in use during the time HMS BLAKE was in service. The most popular was the gloss paint known as "Brunswick Green:" I regret that I do not know the pattern number of it. However, there was another type; which I only ever saw used twice, which was lighter and non-slip. She may have had her decks painted with this. This stuff had what I believe was some sort of grit (sand ?) mixed with it. It was apparently not liked, probably because it was a pig to stir and apply. In retrospect however, I wish that it had been applied to the forecastle of one LEANDER that I served in, it might have prevented me going base over apex one evening when walking down the "break" that was a little frosty.

GK
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  #9  
Old 15-12-2017, 17:33
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by medway508 View Post
Sorry but the Foreign Stations and Home Stations Greys were pre WW2. Since 1945, it has been one grey for all. From 1955 it was BS381C 697 Light Admiralty Grey and from 1968 it has been BSC381C 676 Light Weatherwork Grey. Steel decks were BS4800 14C39 (a dark green, not Humbrol deck green) until 1978 when BS 381C 632 Dark Admiralty Grey was introduced. As Blake decommissioned in 1979, chances are that she never had 632 Grey decks except for her flight deck.

Phoenix Paints, a model bus & railway mob, do these coours in Humbrol sized tinlets and larger ones too.
Beg to differ Medway . I served 53 to 77 and in the earlier years the two greys were in use . If you ever encountered the Med Fleet Spring Cruises you would have witnessed this because the Home Fleet was Atlantic Grey and the Med Fleet was Mediterranean Blue, two different shades of Grey . The other stations Far East , West Indies , SA & SA and Gulf followed the Med Fleet.

My last on the subject as I am not going to get into a p****ng match with anyone on this.

Dave H
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  #10  
Old 15-12-2017, 22:08
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Gwyrosydd Gwyrosydd is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hutson View Post
Beg to differ Medway . I served 53 to 77 and in the earlier years the two greys were in use . If you ever encountered the Med Fleet Spring Cruises you would have witnessed this because the Home Fleet was Atlantic Grey and the Med Fleet was Mediterranean Blue, two different shades of Grey . The other stations Far East , West Indies , SA & SA and Gulf followed the Med Fleet.

My last on the subject as I am not going to get into a p****ng match with anyone on this.

Dave H
Jane's Fighting Ships 1949-50 confirms what Dave says about there being two shades of grey in use for RN ships postwar. It gives the following details for colour of RN ships:
"Ships in commission: Light grey. Ships in reserve: Dark grey. Submarines: Home, dark grey; Mediterranean, royal blue; Pacific, dark green."
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  #11  
Old 16-12-2017, 08:52
medway508 medway508 is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyrosydd View Post
Jane's Fighting Ships 1949-50 confirms what Dave says about there being two shades of grey in use for RN ships postwar. It gives the following details for colour of RN ships:
"Ships in commission: Light grey. Ships in reserve: Dark grey. Submarines: Home, dark grey; Mediterranean, royal blue; Pacific, dark green."


The RN used Admiralty Fleet Orders (AFOs) to state colours to be used. The 1947 one attached shows the fleet in Light Grey 507C and the Reserve Fleet, which basically went nowhere, in the pre war Home Stations Dark Grey of 507B. AFO 694/1953 no longer showed the Reserve Fleet or Dark Grey. No AFO I have seen between 1947 and 1961 shows anything other than one grey in use for the fleet. In fact, the AFOs specifically state “All Stations”.

Dave, the only time you would have seen the colours you describe together could have been around 1955 when the RN switched from Pattern 507C which was the pre war Foreign Stations Light Grey which some people called Med Fleet Grey to BS381C Light Admiralty Grey which is a distinct blue grey (look at Cavalier some time). The fleet would have taken time to all be repainted in the new colour.

Colours do change quite a lot under different lighting conditions. Have a look at the attached photo of my Tartar which is in Light Admiralty Grey. The top one is overcast weather, middle is full sun and the bottom in afternoon sun. I have grey scaled them to show how they would appear in black & white photos.

The only Med Fleet and RN in the 1950s and 1960s I have seen have been via DVD or You tube and look like all ships are the same colour.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AFO 2249 1947 1.jpg (202.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg AFO 2249 1947 2.jpg (438.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg AFO 2249 1947 3.jpg (143.9 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg AFO 694 1953 01.jpg (114.9 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg AFO 694 1953 02.jpg (353.6 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Ratrat colour.jpg (95.8 KB, 21 views)
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  #12  
Old 16-12-2017, 09:21
medway508 medway508 is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosser Kreuzer View Post
medway 508,

I hope that Mat manages to read your excellent post.

For what my advice is worth: there appear to have been two "greens" in use during the time HMS BLAKE was in service. The most popular was the gloss paint known as "Brunswick Green:" I regret that I do not know the pattern number of it. However, there was another type; which I only ever saw used twice, which was lighter and non-slip. She may have had her decks painted with this. This stuff had what I believe was some sort of grit (sand ?) mixed with it. It was apparently not liked, probably because it was a pig to stir and apply. In retrospect however, I wish that it had been applied to the forecastle of one LEANDER that I served in, it might have prevented me going base over apex one evening when walking down the "break" that was a little frosty.



GK
Chatham Dockyard used to use BS381C 226 Mid Brunswick Green if they ran out of 14C39. The NES allowed this as a substitute. It is slightly lighter than 14C39.

The biggest problem they had with green decks is because they specified it as gloss paint. Very slippery when wet. The result was that you had to either add sand to the paint, metal strips welded to the decks or anti slip tread in another lighter more apple green which they stuck down. Think 60 grade sandpaper and you are about there.

If you want to know what the colour looks like, go on board a Type 45, the internal decks are 14C39.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Interior deck paint.jpg (83.5 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg HMS Daring deck flash used.jpg (383.7 KB, 7 views)
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  #13  
Old 16-12-2017, 14:43
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

medway508,

Very many thanks for this and your previous posts. I have little further interest in the Thread, however, I feel obliged to reply in order to add a bit more to the subject if only for others to ponder as they see fit: no offence is intended if I beg to differ with any of your information.

The gloss colour that I well recall was very similar to that shown in the photograph in your last post. It is what I came to know as "Brunswick Green:" I never ever saw sand added to it. I do agree that metal strips were welded to certain decks and that the 3M's deck strips were also used: the latter were not well-liked as they tended to peel off with heavy use. These deck strips were a similar colour to the paint: of course colours can differ, witness the often voluminous amount of ink that has been spilt in the model-making press over "What colour was Corticene?"

Concerning the paint that did have sand added to it. To improve the accuracy of the statement made in my last post: I only ever saw the paint with added sand used; from the drum, in one ship. That was in HMS URSA in late 1961. Funnily enough I can even recall the name of one of the ABs who was about to apply it! I last saw that particular type of paint in use though not applied, in HMS KENT in early 1980. It had been applied to 03 deck and also the cable deck and the water-ways. I have struggled to describe that colour ever since but on reflection now, I would say "Mustard Green" or very like the vegetation on the ubiquitous Leylandii tree.

Best Wishes,

GK

PS The photograph accompanying Navyking's Post 5 illustrates the two colours that I recall above very well: I really must start reading all previous posts properly. "Snakey" (as some called her) has her cable deck (oddly) painted in "Brunswick," the others, save the flight deck are painted the non-slip "Mustard Green."

Last edited by Grosser Kreuzer : 16-12-2017 at 14:53. Reason: Addition of detail
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  #14  
Old 16-12-2017, 19:09
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Scurs Scurs is online now
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

GK.........I don't know if the Brunswick green/sand mix was deemed a failure, but I only saw it once.....we had it on KEPPEL 1960/62, I had occasion to apply said stuff to iron deck....like painting with glue.

All other ships I served in had standard Brunswick Green decks (sometimes with red admar fo'c'sle). Flight Deck on AJAX was a dark grey, similar to USN Grey, but similar non-slip properties as non-skid strips.
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  #15  
Old 17-12-2017, 10:53
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Vegaskip Vegaskip is online now
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

When I first joined, we used to paint carrier FD with grey for the landing area and green for the rest. Both colours already had sand in them and were a nightmare to mix, thus you got patches of rough and smooth. They also seemed prone to flaking, and gave you quite a whack when blown by jet blast or prop wash.
Later we went over to an epoxy type which was applied with a trowel. Much better adhesion and longer lasting.
I used to worry about getting the various colours right in my paintings. No longer. Once that paint is out of the drum, no mater it's code number, it becomes like us. It's appearance is subject to the same conditions as us. Age, weather, light, wear and tear, and environment. So now my pallet is usually Blue, dark Middle and Light. Grey, same shades, dirty White Paynes Grey ( even Black fades lighter) various shades of Brown, for anti fouling and rust.
I suppose it is diferent if it's a model. If it's as built, then nice pristine colours are fine. The thing is, as you may already have found out. Ask any former Naval Person what colour his/her ship was, they will probably say Grey, "and the deck?" "Don't know, Grey or Green I think" a 'Jack Dusty' or ex Buffer might give you the numbers if your lucky.
Don't suppose this will help, but I bet you will get more "Wow great model" than "Deck colour is wrong" of course your reply is "Prove it"
Jim
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  #16  
Old 18-12-2017, 15:37
majinvash majinvash is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

This is all great stuff thank you.

The model arrived in the post today.

Will wash, prime it tonight and then raid my local model shop tomorrow for the closest colours they stock.

I think I am going to go with the grey hull, green deck combo.

Pics to follow

Cheers

Mat
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  #17  
Old 21-12-2017, 13:42
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

Mat,

Good luck with the model. At risk of seeming to teach my granny to suck eggs, you should find what you want in the Humbrol range. What does intrigue me though is the fact that you still have a model shop on your high street!! I am amazed.

GK
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  #18  
Old 25-12-2017, 00:37
medway508 medway508 is offline
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Default Re: HMS Blake C99 colours. Painting a model of the ship my father served on.

These any help. The model is an MoD model of Tiger held in their storage facility.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Blake 05 small.jpg (117.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg Blake 1974 02.jpg (52.6 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Tiger MoD model 04.jpg (383.8 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Tiger MoD model 03.jpg (363.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Tiger MoD model 01.jpg (321.0 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Tiger MoD model 02.jpg (357.2 KB, 20 views)
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