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  #101  
Old 22-01-2017, 18:23
PhilipG PhilipG is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

I thought that BAE had recruited enough people when they started the Astute Class build, surely except for size there are not major differences in the technologies used in attack and boomer boats. Thus I am a bit surprised by this press release, we are not building the missiles and as I understand it the missile tubes are to be bought in from the USA. Glad to be proven wrong...
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  #102  
Old 22-01-2017, 22:50
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

I think you will find that all the recent info states they will be having twelve tubes, and not sixteen as per the original design. Here is just one article as an example.
http://rnsubs.co.uk/boats/subs/dread...ml#prettyPhoto
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  #103  
Old 22-01-2017, 23:01
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
I thought that BAE had recruited enough people when they started the Astute Class build, surely except for size there are not major differences in the technologies used in attack and boomer boats. Thus I am a bit surprised by this press release, we are not building the missiles and as I understand it the missile tubes are to be bought in from the USA. Glad to be proven wrong...
The missile tube are actually being manufactured in Rosyth, see page 4 of link for the info on that.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Parliament.pdf
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  #104  
Old 23-01-2017, 10:47
PhilipG PhilipG is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
The missile tube are actually being manufactured in Rosyth, see page 4 of link for the info on that.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Parliament.pdf
My bad, I knew that they were to be identical to the tubes on the new USN boats and that the contract had been set up, I had wrongly assumed that they were all being manufactured at the same place in the USA..
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  #105  
Old 23-01-2017, 13:26
Stealthman Stealthman is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
I think you will find that all the recent info states they will be having twelve tubes, and not sixteen as per the original design. Here is just one article as an example.
http://rnsubs.co.uk/boats/subs/dread...ml#prettyPhoto
Yes, so it appears, but to be honest I really don't see the point in only fitting 12 tubes, other than the fact that every time we test fire a missile we're depleting our stocks with no funding to acquire replacement missiles? I think in a deterrent, you really need to have the maximum amount of firepower available and with Russia actively seeking to enlarge and enhance it's nuclear capabilities, now is not the time to be cutting ours.
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  #106  
Old 23-01-2017, 14:35
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Really. If you take a logical stance then we have enough missiles.

Twelve missiles per boat with eight warheads on each missiles = 96 per boat.
If we have reached the stage when we fire off all those missiles, then we could do a tremendous amount of damage to an enemy. Bearing in mind in such a case it would be all out hostilities, then the other major powers would be involved. In that case our contribution would be important but not critical in view of the thousands of warheads in their arsenals. Would there ever be a scenario where the UK would act unilateraly with nuclear weapons, I very, very much doubt it.

Therefore it would not matter if the UK had two or three boats at sea, able to fire off all their missiles, they wouldn't be able to replenish, as there wouldn't be anything to come home to. By the time they had finished firing, the war would be for all intents and purpose over and done with for all sides.

That's why it's called a deterent, if it fails to deter most of humanity will be wiped out, the few survivors will be living in the stone age. In regards to a tiny county like the UK, well it would be a sheet of radio active glass.

Last edited by gruntfuttock : 23-01-2017 at 14:58.
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  #107  
Old 23-01-2017, 17:48
Stealthman Stealthman is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
Really. If you take a logical stance then we have enough missiles.

Twelve missiles per boat with eight warheads on each missiles = 96 per boat.
If we have reached the stage when we fire off all those missiles, then we could do a tremendous amount of damage to an enemy. Bearing in mind in such a case it would be all out hostilities, then the other major powers would be involved. In that case our contribution would be important but not critical in view of the thousands of warheads in their arsenals. Would there ever be a scenario where the UK would act unilateraly with nuclear weapons, I very, very much doubt it.

Therefore it would not matter if the UK had two or three boats at sea, able to fire off all their missiles, they wouldn't be able to replenish, as there wouldn't be anything to come home to. By the time they had finished firing, the war would be for all intents and purpose over and done with for all sides.

That's why it's called a deterent, if it fails to deter most of humanity will be wiped out, the few survivors will be living in the stone age. In regards to a tiny county like the UK, well it would be a sheet of radio active glass.
The boats will have 12 tubes but only carry 8 missiles with 4 warheads each ( this is info in public domain ). You are right in some respects, but if my country is to be reduced to a sheet of radioactive glass, then I for one would like to think we have done everything in our power to ensure we have retaliated to the maximum.
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  #108  
Old 23-01-2017, 22:50
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthman View Post
The boats will have 12 tubes but only carry 8 missiles with 4 warheads each ( this is info in public domain ). You are right in some respects, but if my country is to be reduced to a sheet of radioactive glass, then I for one would like to think we have done everything in our power to ensure we have retaliated to the maximum.
You actually think that what is in the public domain is factual. No, the facts are that we will never know how many missiles will be onboard, or how many warheads they will carry. My figures are what they are capable of carrying.

I think recent developments have shown how much the public will know, and I agree with that. Do we know for instance how many missiles are onboard our destroyers and frigates, no we don't and they are far less secretive than our nuclear boats.

In fact only a couple of years ago, it was leaked that a T23 was sent on operations with three sea wolf missiles in her silos.Make of that what you will.
I completely agree with your sentiments that we retaliate to the maximum, I don't think I suggested otherwise.
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  #109  
Old 24-01-2017, 16:21
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ivorthediver ivorthediver is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Well heres a first ......GF and me actually agreeing on something !

Your last two posts on this topic are in line with my own thoughts for once and we are in total agreement on a subject ...........
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  #110  
Old 24-01-2017, 17:58
Stealthman Stealthman is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
You actually think that what is in the public domain is factual. No, the facts are that we will never know how many missiles will be onboard, or how many warheads they will carry. My figures are what they are capable of carrying.

I think recent developments have shown how much the public will know, and I agree with that. Do we know for instance how many missiles are onboard our destroyers and frigates, no we don't and they are far less secretive than our nuclear boats.

In fact only a couple of years ago, it was leaked that a T23 was sent on operations with three sea wolf missiles in her silos.Make of that what you will.
I completely agree with your sentiments that we retaliate to the maximum, I don't think I suggested otherwise.
Thanks, i'm glad you agree. I was going by the surprising statements made by David Cameron that the current load was to be reduced from 12 missiles to 8 with four warheads per missile - as a UK contribution towards a reduction in nuclear weapon stocks, you would think it would be a state secret, and it could be he was lying, but then again, anything that benefits the career of a politician.......As for the type 23, that really doesn't surprise me.
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  #111  
Old 25-01-2017, 08:48
glojo glojo is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Reading that link there is talk of these HUGE beasts having a gymnasium?? I guess the crew cannot go for a run around the upper deck, but is this really necessary on a warship? Our warships appear on local TV when they return home from an extended deployment of possibly three to six months but will these boats ever deploy longer than this?

No doubt there will be a McDonalds, a Twitter station and we mustn't forget the multiple boutiques for our modern day sailors to spend some of their hard earned pay Will we supply them with extra special state of the art running shoes especially made (read expensively made) with extra special (read extra expensive) sound deadening soles?? (should they also have sound deadening souls? )

I guess those of us who can recall submariners coming onboard to enjoy the three S's, (shower and shave being two of the three) will have a smile at the creature comforts available to the modern day underwater jack tar.

These appear to be amazing boats but will we be here to see them sailing the high seas? (anno domini can be a bitch )

Thanks for the link

John
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  #112  
Old 25-01-2017, 18:48
Shinysheff Shinysheff is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by glojo View Post
Reading that link there is talk of these HUGE beasts having a gymnasium?? I guess the crew cannot go for a run around the upper deck, but is this really necessary on a warship? Our warships appear on local TV when they return home from an extended deployment of possibly three to six months but will these boats ever deploy longer than this?

No doubt there will be a McDonalds, a Twitter station and we mustn't forget the multiple boutiques for our modern day sailors to spend some of their hard earned pay Will we supply them with extra special state of the art running shoes especially made (read expensively made) with extra special (read extra expensive) sound deadening soles?? (should they also have sound deadening souls? )

I guess those of us who can recall submariners coming onboard to enjoy the three S's, (shower and shave being two of the three) will have a smile at the creature comforts available to the modern day underwater jack tar.

These appear to be amazing boats but will we be here to see them sailing the high seas? (anno domini can be a bitch )

Thanks for the link

John
I think a gym is an excellent idea. Exercise is good for the body and the mind, essential in this line of work. Anything that can be done for crew retention is necessary. They don't need McDonalds, the food is already excellent on the big lurkers.
Thank goodness for progress (in this particular instance)!

Rich
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  #113  
Old 25-01-2017, 23:07
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Well this is a surprise, NOT.

Asked by Lord West of Spithead
Asked on: 18 January 2017
Ministry of Defence
Trident Submarines
HL4769
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the question asked by Lord West of Spithead in the debate on the future capability of the armed forces on 12 January (HL Deb, col 2128), whether there has been any consideration of reviewing the decision made by the previous Chancellor of the Exchequer on funding the capital costs of the deterrence succescor programme from contingency rather than defence funds.
A
Answered by: Earl Howe
Answered on: 25 January 2017

The Chancellor of the Exchequer and Defence Secretary agree that funding and control for the Dreadnought programme remain rightly part of the Defence Budget.
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  #114  
Old 26-01-2017, 00:59
harry.gibbon's Avatar
harry.gibbon harry.gibbon is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Re post #111

Quote:
Originally Posted by glojo View Post
I guess those of us who can recall submariners coming onboard to enjoy the three S's, (shower and shave being two of the three) will have a smile at the creature comforts available to the modern day underwater jack tar.
Why?

With respect, I don't think that general service 'skimmers' of yesteryear can have any real reason to 'smile at the creature comforts available to the modern day underwater jack tar'

Perhaps those who served in conventional boats and subsequently nuke boats would be best placed to give an opinion on the improved 'comforts' in modern boats... they will have something to compare.

I can recall:-
a) an occasion when a boat tied up alongside us (a Battle Class destroyer) and took advantage of the ship's facilities, on completion every one of them went back on board their boat.
b) being on patrols in both 'A' and 'O' boats, and c) being on patrols in one of the UK's early SSN's; all of which happened in the 60's .... the difference in living conditions (and facilities), even back then, was quite significant.

A bit like getting a draft from a Battle or Daring Class destroyer, to a County Class destroyer methinks..... TV studio on the Counties IIRC


Little h
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Last edited by harry.gibbon : 26-01-2017 at 01:15.
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  #115  
Old 24-02-2017, 14:59
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

More on the successor (Dreadnought) programme :-

http://www.defenceonline.co.uk/2017/...nce-suppliers/
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  #116  
Old 20-05-2017, 08:10
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Labour party still divided over the nuclear deterent. shambles ! :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...bours-defence/
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  #117  
Old 28-11-2017, 09:21
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Is it time to take the Trident replacement out of the MOD Budget :-


http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/has-...he-mod-budget/
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  #118  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:05
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

The Dreadnought class submarine in focus :-


http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/the-...rine-in-focus/
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  #119  
Old 04-01-2018, 14:59
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: HMS Dreadnought SSBN - 2030? -

Update to Parliament on the Dreadnought programme :-

http://www.defencesynergia.co.uk/the...to-parliament/
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