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  #4526  
Old 09-02-2017, 01:49
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinysheff View Post
Well said Rupert.

Assail, as a self proclaimed 'disinterested' party when in comes to the RN you certainly take interest...

Rich
Disinterested is a lot different to "uninterested".
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  #4527  
Old 09-02-2017, 09:04
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

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Originally Posted by ASSAIL View Post
And the net result of all this waffle over the last few posts is; QE will start a 50 year service one or two months later than planned. So What! She doesn't have any aircraft yet and there's plenty of time for her to reach operational status.
Really gents, sometimes the minutiae can be immaterial.
The QEC has already been delayed by Government interference, so no there is not plenty of time for her to reach operational status. Do you actually know how long it takes for that to happen.

We need her at sea ASAP doing builders trials, then being handed over and commissioned as an RN ship, and that is when the very hard and very long work starts. As far as the F35 goes they will be there as soon as the QE is worked up and fit to take them.

The remarks are very far from being minutiae, from those of us who actually care about what is happening.
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  #4528  
Old 09-02-2017, 10:42
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

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Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
The QEC has already been delayed by Government interference, so no there is not plenty of time for her to reach operational status. Do you actually know how long it takes for that to happen.

We need her at sea ASAP doing builders trials, then being handed over and commissioned as an RN ship, and that is when the very hard and very long work starts. As far as the F35 goes they will be there as soon as the QE is worked up and fit to take them.

The remarks are very far from being minutiae, from those of us who actually care about what is happening.
There are many substantive issues in getting QE to sea, a delay of one or two months is not one of them.
The scale of the project is beyond any that the RN has undertaken before so cut the project team some slack and let them ensure the build is successfully completed.
The last thing needed is to rush the job and end up with major problems which could have beeen sorted. What the RN doesn't need is a carrier which spends half its commissioned life in refit, modernisation or repair such as the ARk Royal R09 which spent only 12 of its 24 years in service or to be commissioned with T45 like problems.
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  #4529  
Old 09-02-2017, 11:05
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

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Originally Posted by ASSAIL View Post
There are many substantive issues in getting QE to sea, a delay of one or two months is not one of them.
The scale of the project is beyond any that the RN has undertaken before so cut the project team some slack and let them ensure the build is successfully completed.
The last thing needed is to rush the job and end up with major problems which could have beeen sorted. What the RN doesn't need is a carrier which spends half its commissioned life in refit, modernisation or repair such as the ARk Royal R09 which spent only 12 of its 24 years in service or to be commissioned with T45 like problems.
I am fully aware of the problems of getting a new vessel into commission, I have on more than one occasion been involved in taking new ships to sea. the fact remains we need her at sea. I was not suggesting that the job be rushed, I was questioning your assertion that "there's plenty of time for her to reach operational status."
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  #4530  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:52
Stealthman Stealthman is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSAIL View Post
There are many substantive issues in getting QE to sea, a delay of one or two months is not one of them.
The scale of the project is beyond any that the RN has undertaken before so cut the project team some slack and let them ensure the build is successfully completed.
The last thing needed is to rush the job and end up with major problems which could have beeen sorted. What the RN doesn't need is a carrier which spends half its commissioned life in refit, modernisation or repair such as the ARk Royal R09 which spent only 12 of its 24 years in service or to be commissioned with T45 like problems.
I don't think anyone is denying the substantial issues involved with this project, unfortunately the RN publicity machine seems to have jumped the gun a little( encouraging schools to give children off etc on a specified date in May to greet the QE in Pompey etc), which doesn't give a good impression to the taxpayer paying for these leviathans. If there is any project that needs to be seen to deliver on time it's this one. The real issue is perhaps that we should be more careful in publicly making commitments we can't keep?
As for Ark IV she existed in an era when carrier development was progressing at a very fast pace and she need refits to keep up, no reflection on build quality? To this day, she was without question the most powerful warship the RN has ever had, a true tribute to her I think?
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  #4531  
Old 09-02-2017, 13:54
PhilipG PhilipG is online now
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

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Originally Posted by Stealthman View Post
As for Ark IV she existed in an era when carrier development was progressing at a very fast pace and she need refits to keep up, no reflection on build quality? To this day, she was without question the most powerful warship the RN has ever had, a true tribute to her I think?
It could be argued that Eagle, being first in class and thus first upgraded, not as full a refit as Victorious but as I understand it a far more thorough one than Ark Royal had, better radar and all AC, was the most powerful, obviously she was not equipped fully for Phantoms, having done the initial trials.
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  #4532  
Old 09-02-2017, 17:22
Stealthman Stealthman is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

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Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
It could be argued that Eagle, being first in class and thus first upgraded, not as full a refit as Victorious but as I understand it a far more thorough one than Ark Royal had, better radar and all AC, was the most powerful, obviously she was not equipped fully for Phantoms, having done the initial trials.
It's has been said by many that Eagle was in better overall condition, but she didn't get the full 'Phantomisation', which gave Ark an airwing unrivalled by other British Carriers.
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  #4533  
Old 09-02-2017, 18:21
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Exclamation Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert View Post

It is a complex programme. We do testing to discover problems. One was found that couldn't be fixed that quickly. That may or may not satisfy you lot. Sure as hell wouldn't satisfy the press
Problems are better discovered early rather than late and once fixed will satisfy everyone Rupert - they will not have any option anyway except to drip about the ultimate delay if there is one! "Act in haste repent at leisure" comes to Mind.
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  #4534  
Old 09-02-2017, 22:06
VirtualF VirtualF is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
It could be argued that Eagle, being first in class and thus first upgraded, not as full a refit as Victorious but as I understand it a far more thorough one than Ark Royal had, better radar and all AC, was the most powerful, obviously she was not equipped fully for Phantoms, having done the initial trials.
I think it was criminal that HMS Eagle wasn't given the phantomisation refit. However you had successive British Governments that wished to rid themselves of conventional aircraft carriers.Also Eagle was unfortunate that her "name" didn't have the gravitas of her sister. Scrap Eagle before her time and the electorate will say "thats sad". Scrap Ark Royal and watch the likes of the Mail scream blue murder.

So which do you keep? A ship that could probably last to the early 80's or the sister that probably has little life left in her,but can operate some expensive jets for a few years before the government can claim that she is worn out and pay her off.

Politics. Always dark, devious and dirty.
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  #4535  
Old 10-02-2017, 00:04
Stealthman Stealthman is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

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Originally Posted by VirtualF View Post
I think it was criminal that HMS Eagle wasn't given the phantomisation refit. However you had successive British Governments that wished to rid themselves of conventional aircraft carriers.Also Eagle was unfortunate that her "name" didn't have the gravitas of her sister. Scrap Eagle before her time and the electorate will say "thats sad". Scrap Ark Royal and watch the likes of the Mail scream blue murder.

So which do you keep? A ship that could probably last to the early 80's or the sister that probably has little life left in her,but can operate some expensive jets for a few years before the government can claim that she is worn out and pay her off.

Politics. Always dark, devious and dirty.
I couldn't agree with you more!
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  #4536  
Old 12-02-2017, 17:23
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Exclamation Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

MANNING OR SHOULD THAT BE STAFFING?

It will be interesting to see exactly what the Navy News says whenever -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...g-sailors.html

See also post 361 on - http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...?t=721&page=15
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  #4537  
Old 13-02-2017, 06:29
Scratch Scratch is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Why on earth would the DM illustrate the article with a photo of EXETER!
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  #4538  
Old 13-02-2017, 09:01
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

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Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
Why on earth would the DM illustrate the article with a photo of EXETER!
Simply because the vast majority of the UK public wouldn't know the difference anyway. In fact the Daily Fail probably doesn't know either.

I can never understand why people get over excited about what the UK media prints in regards to UK defence matters.

They normal way that they work is to find a kernel of truth, and then build up a story round it. Normally it is based on no more than 'an official source said' which is probably some low level civil servant spouting off, whilst being plied with drink in a local hostelry.

Read any article on defence in a UK 'Red Top' and you will find the reporting so low grade as to be childish at times.

We all know that there is a problem with manning levels in all sections of the armed forces. Brought about by no other than Government cuts, starting as far back as the early 1990's, with the demise of the Soviet Union. All part of the peace bonus.

The reasoning behind it was, the cold war has ended and we are no longer threatened by the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, so we can cut back on defences.

Well that worked didn't it. So now due to our own stupidity we have to play catch up. Can you blame any young person in the UK who might want to join the armed forces, thinking twice about their carreer options, having seen how the cuts and redundancies have been carried out.

I can't see many who have already been effected by these cuts, and booted out falling for this latest effort, if true. Rant over.

GF
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  #4539  
Old 13-02-2017, 10:00
Stealthman Stealthman is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
Simply because the vast majority of the UK public wouldn't know the difference anyway. In fact the Daily Fail probably doesn't know either.

I can never understand why people get over excited about what the UK media prints in regards to UK defence matters.

They normal way that they work is to find a kernel of truth, and then build up a story round it. Normally it is based on no more than 'an official source said' which is probably some low level civil servant spouting off, whilst being plied with drink in a local hostelry.

Read any article on defence in a UK 'Red Top' and you will find the reporting so low grade as to be childish at times.

We all know that there is a problem with manning levels in all sections of the armed forces. Brought about by no other than Government cuts, starting as far back as the early 1990's, with the demise of the Soviet Union. All part of the peace bonus.

The reasoning behind it was, the cold war has ended and we are no longer threatened by the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, so we can cut back on defences.

Well that worked didn't it. So now due to our own stupidity we have to play catch up. Can you blame any young person in the UK who might want to join the armed forces, thinking twice about their carreer options, having seen how the cuts and redundancies have been carried out.

I can't see many who have already been effected by these cuts, and booted out falling for this latest effort, if true. Rant over.

GF
Rant Seconded.
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  #4540  
Old 13-02-2017, 11:22
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

So here is the MOD's reply, with the said kernel of truth. There is a 'pilot scheme', and a 'study'. So ok there is even a certain amount of BS here as well. You now have to choose what to believe

"Flexible Working

The Mail on Sunday reports on a pilot study being conducted by the Ministry of Defence that looks to offer military personnel greater working flexibility, with the study set to help inform future policy.

An Ministry of Defence spokesperson said:

Every member of Britainís Armed Forces taking part in this pilot could be required to deploy on operations, at any time, should the need arise. This pilot is part of a modern offer to help Britainís world class armed forces keep the broadest range of people and give them and their families the broadest service opportunities.
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  #4541  
Old 14-02-2017, 13:04
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Pelican Pelican is offline
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Exclamation Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Q.E. - DELAY

The comments made by Madeleine Moon, MP, [member of the Defence Select Committee] on TV this morning were interesting. Fast forward to about 27 minutes in on:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...shire-14022017

Victoria Derbyshire BBC 2 0900 - 1100.
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  #4542  
Old 14-02-2017, 16:09
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Marius_B Marius_B is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Q.E. - DELAY

The comments made by Madeleine Moon, MP, [member of the Defence Select Committee] ....
The bit you are referring to says -

"The MoD do dislike telling you even the most simple information and they hide behind official secrets all the time".

Well done the MoD for doing their job, I fail to see why a running commentary should be provided as to their daily business. There is a reason for the Official Secrets Act, a reason for security checks and clearances before you have access to information (like sailing times) et al. Simple really.
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  #4543  
Old 14-02-2017, 16:57
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Pelican Pelican is offline
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Exclamation Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius_B View Post
The bit you are referring to says -

"The MoD do dislike telling you even the most simple information and they hide behind official secrets all the time".

Well done the MoD for doing their job, I fail to see why a running commentary should be provided as to their daily business. There is a reason for the Official Secrets Act, a reason for security checks and clearances before you have access to information (like sailing times) et al. Simple really.
Negative Marius, references to stretching Spring into June and mention of 'I.T.'
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  #4544  
Old 16-02-2017, 16:23
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Exclamation Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Another Personnel Transfer Boat named - "Buccaneer"

Scroll thu to the right >

https://www.facebook.com/AlnmaritecL...type=3&theater

Also - https://twitter.com/HMSQnlz/status/832282863433310210
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  #4545  
Old 17-02-2017, 18:07
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Exclamation Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Another Personnel Transfer Boat named - "Buccaneer"
Scroll thu to the right >

https://www.facebook.com/AlnmaritecL...type=3&theater

Also - https://twitter.com/HMSQnlz/status/832282863433310210
See also - https://www.facebook.com/14220618146...type=3&theater
And - https://www.youtube.com/user/alnmaritec?app=desktop
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  #4546  
Old 19-02-2017, 09:30
navalis navalis is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

New tug completed in Poland for Portsmouth Harbour, apparently primarily for working with the carriers:

See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBNWltlC9Tk
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  #4547  
Old 19-02-2017, 09:35
navalis navalis is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

It is "...a powerful new tug, with 80 tonnes bollard pull rating, to support the Royal Navyís two new aircraft carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, at Portsmouth Naval base. The Damen advanced RotorTug ART 80-32 type tug will have the necessary power, flexibility and manoeuvrability to handle the aircraft carriers, which are the biggest ships ever built for the Royal Navy.
Serco expects to take delivery of the new tug in early 2017. This will increase its fleet, the largest in the UK to fly the British flag, to 115 vessels.
The new tug will have a number of custom-made features, including a double drum render-recovery winch and a foldable mast, to enable safe working under the flight deck overhang. The tug will have grey fendering, to match the livery of Royal Navy vessels, preventing hull marking, and will also have controllable pitch propellers instead of the standard fixed pitch propellers found on other ART tugs."
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  #4548  
Old 19-02-2017, 13:50
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Exclamation Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by navalis View Post
New tug completed in Poland for Portsmouth Harbour, apparently primarily for working with the carriers:

See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBNWltlC9Tk
Also - http://www.damen.com/en/news/2016/02...craft_carriers

From elsewhere - "The new Portsmouth based tug SD TEMPEST is due at Portsmouth on the 22nd February from her builders in Poland."
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  #4549  
Old Yesterday, 18:16
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Exclamation Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

CARRIER WAVES

https://twitter.com/QEClassCarriers/...47986436481028

NOTE: The pdf file is 3.24 MB so too big to attach but the above link should lead you to it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg C.W..jpg (20.9 KB, 19 views)
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Last edited by Pelican : Yesterday at 18:26. Reason: Addition
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  #4550  
Old Today, 12:54
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ivorthediver ivorthediver is offline
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Default Re: RN Aircraft Carriers: Queen Elizabeth Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Also - http://www.damen.com/en/news/2016/02...craft_carriers

From elsewhere - "The new Portsmouth based tug SD TEMPEST is due at Portsmouth on the 22nd February from her builders in Poland."
Great choice of Tug ...
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