World Naval Ships Forums  
CURRENT SPECIAL OFFERS ON OUR HUGE SELECTION OF ART PRINTS!

Go Back   World Naval Ships Forums > Everything Else > Everything Else
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Everything Else Serious non naval and non maritime subjects - 'Shore Leave' is for chat.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 07-03-2012, 10:30
jainso31 jainso31 is online now
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DONCASTER S.YORKS UK
Posts: 8,748
Default Re: The Formation of the Fleet Air Arm

POSTSCRIPT and back to where all this began

The lack of ASW development during the 1920s and 1930s was not entirely the fault of the Air Ministry. The struggle between the Admiralty and Air Ministry continued into the 1930s and it was the Admiralty that lost sight of why it was pursuing its own air service for the Navy. It became more a matter of getting revenge over the RAF for its success in defeating earlier attempts to break up the Air Force. It succeeded in forcing the return of the Fleet Air Arm (FAA) from the RAF in 1937, but made no effort to develop ASW formations. Instead it continued to believe in the supremacy of the capital ship and the FAA was meant to be suitable for fleet actions only. It was a mistake most of the major powers, in particular the Imperial Japanese Navy, made during the lead up to the Second World War.

Throughout the inter war period, the Admiralty had been continually sceptical of the aircraft's ability to sink a surface vessel. It was regarded as merely a reconnaissance technology. This resulted in a lack of development of a maritime strike force and lost another early opportunity to garner support for Coastal Area/Coastal Command.

In summation First Sea Lord David Beatty, 1st Earl Beatty proclaimed "I know of no operation in which the Navy and the Air [Service] have to co-operate in which the Navy would not play the more important role than the air service"

PPS Sheldon's IF ONLY-speaks volumes

jainso31
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-07-2012, 15:07
Rupert Rupert is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,223
Default Re: The Formation of the Fleet Air Arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by KizmeRD View Post
Future generations of fighter aircraft are all going to be pilotless drones. The Royal Navy is already preparing for this technological change-over by fitting Play Stations in the Junior Rates Messes of all our ships at sea - what are the RAF doing I ask you?

Michael
Interesting thread.

Military aviation is undoubtedly changing towards Autonomous/Unmanned/Uninhabited air vehicles rather than traditional aircraft. These range from tiny hand launched affairs to aircraft sized complex vehicles.

Currently they are more at the unmanned (i.e. remote contol) end rather than autonomous but this is changing. Meaning that not only will a pilot not be needed, nor will the equivalent person back at base.

As this proceeds, one does wonder whether the force that is at risk is not the FAA but the RAF. Certainly the RAF reactions in the build-up to SDSR seemed to indicate that they thought there was a risk of aviation being handed over to the army/AAC and RN/FAA. Increasingly perhaps the FAA will by the same token by less a quasi-separate organisation, and more just another subset of equipment within the RN
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-07-2012, 15:31
jainso31 jainso31 is online now
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DONCASTER S.YORKS UK
Posts: 8,748
Default Re: The Formation of the Fleet Air Arm

The RAF is unlikely to go down the path of recruiting computer whizzes.
But the Americans have accepted the need for only a second-class medical certificate, and some RAF airmen believe it is only a matter of time before medically unfit experienced combat pilots get a new lease of life flying drones.
This in itself speaks volumes

Within two years, a new British drone, Taranis, is due to be unveiled that may finally be enough to excite the Typhoon pilots.
Designed during a project to replace RAF Tornado GR4s, it is expected to look like a bat-winged stealth bomber and will have such a long flight duration and weapons-carrying ability that it may spell the end of manned combat aircraft.

The point you make Rupert about how all of this new technology will seriously affect the existing Armed Services is an important one.I believe that it is possible for the "last in"-the RAF could well be run down; as the air roles are taken up by the Royal Navy and the Army.At this juncture it is pure supposition but Time Marches On and of course" waiteth for no man"
However of the four fundamental roles of air and space power (control of the air and space, air mobility, intelligence and situational awareness, and attack), cyberwar has key role to play in each. The RAF must drive these capabilities forward in the Joint environment alongside the other services. Crucially, in developing this way the RAF would find it easier to articulate its relevance in the 21st Century as it focused on capabilities and not delivery platforms. In the 20th Century the aeroplane was unique because of its capabilities but in the 21st Century it no longer remains so. The future of the Royal Air Force is not just about planes.



jainso31

Last edited by jainso31 : 11-07-2012 at 15:49.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-07-2012, 17:15
Rupert Rupert is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,223
Default Re: The Formation of the Fleet Air Arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jainso31 View Post
The future of the Royal Air Force is not just about planes.

jainso31
A very key sentence. The question is whether the RAF have made it so. By trying to insist on ship launched aircraft and every helicopter capable of carrying more than x people being an RAF thing.

They could have carved out a boundary which is not so defined by the platform but by capability. But I don't think they have, and it may be too late to change.

Is a completely autonomous reconnaisance vehicle that looks like a missile, is controlled like a missile and flies like a missile an aircraft (and hence RAF) or a missile and hence RN (say)

There are UAVs that are more aircraft like, but the boundary is blurring
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-07-2012, 17:35
jainso31 jainso31 is online now
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DONCASTER S.YORKS UK
Posts: 8,748
Default Re: The Formation of the Fleet Air Arm

"flies like a missile an aircraft (and hence RAF)"-not so Rupert,FAA and AAC have aircraft too; but the RAF do not have missiles (other than those carried as weapons).I too think the RAF should by now, have nailed their flag to the mast of capability.
"They could have carved out a boundary which is not so defined by the platform but by capability. But I don't think they have, and it may be too late to change."
I do believe that you have" hit the nail squarely on the head" with that statement ."Too Late the Capability" may be their epitaph Rupert.

jainso31
Reply With Quote
Reply



Ship Search by Name : Advanced Search
Random Timeline Entry : 5th January 1935 : HMS Galatea : Sailed Plymouth

NAVAL PRINTS

Click above to see our naval art portal - Eight random half price items are displayed to the right.

Some Current Half Price Offers

 Key ships of the British task Force sail in close formation in the Mediterranean Sea during the build-up to the coalition liberation of Iraq in march 2003. Ships pictured left to right, include ATS Argus (A135), a Type 42 destroyer in the extreme distance, the flagship HMS ark Royal (RO7), RFA Orangeleaf (A110), LSL Sir Percival (L3036), the Commando and helicopter carrier HMS ocean (L12) and the Type 42 destroyer HMS Liverpool (D92)

NTG03 - Task Force to Iraq by Ivan Berryman (P)
Half Price! - 3000.00
Ships of the Falklands Task Force formate following the Argentine surrender in 1982.  Nearest is Leander class frigate HMS Andromeda with RFA Brambleleaf in her wake.  The Type 22 frigate HMS Brilliant is to the left of the picture, with the carrier HMS Invincible dominating the right.  HMS Hermes and her escorts are in the extreme distance.

Victory Parade by Ivan Berryman. (P)
Half Price! - 2900.00
H.M.A.S Hobart glides past Mount Fiji for the surrender ceremony with Missouri in the Background. Tokyo Bay 1945.

Slow Ahead by Randall Wilson.
Half Price! - 35.00
 Launched on 3rd November 1986 and commissioned into the Royal Navy on 14th January 1989, HMS Trenchant (S91) was the fifth of the Trafalgar class nuclear powered submarines and was the first Royal Navy vessel to fire the Block IV Tomahawk cruise missile.  In addition to her complement of missiles, she is also equipped with Spearfish torpedoes and some of the most sophisticated data acquisition and underwater detection systems which allow her to monitor surface vessels undetected.

HMS Trenchant by Ivan Berryman. (P)
Half Price! - 750.00

On 29th and 30th April 1944, while surfaced close to jagged reefs, and Japanese shore guns, the USS Tang rescued 22 downed flyers from Task Force 58s strikes against enemy positions on the islands - This was the largest rescue of airmen by a submarine in the war.  USS Tang (SS-306) would later be sunk by its own torpedo off Formosa, on the 24th of October 1944.

USS Tang, The Life Guard of Truk Atoll by Robert Barbour (AP)
Half Price! - 70.00
 Lieutenant of the Royal Navy commands marines and crew during a sea battle with the French during the battle of Cape St Vincent.

In the Thick of Battle by Chris Collingwood.
Half Price! - 40.00
 HMS Broadsword and the aircraft carrier Hermes battle their way through the storm on their way to the Battle for the Falklands.

Storm Force to the Falklands by Anthony Saunders (P)
Half Price! - 2050.00
HMS Celandine flower class corvette escorting Atlantic convoy in the middle distance the carrier HMS Biter is shown.
HMS Celandine by Ivan Berryman. (AP)
Half Price! - 25.00

SPORT PRINTS

Click above to see our sport art portal - Four random half price items are displayed to the right.

Some Current Half Price Offers



Jason Robinson by Robert Highton. (Y)
Half Price! - 83.00
SFA18.  Going Home by Chris Howells.

Going Home by Chris Howells.
Half Price! - 65.00
 Ferrari F310.  1996.
Eddie Irvine by Michael Thompson.
Half Price! - 25.00
 Marlboro McLaren Mercedes MP4/11. 1996.
David Coulthard by Michael Thompson.
Half Price! - 25.00

AVIATION PRINTS

Click above to see our aviation art portal - Four random half price items are displayed to the right.

Some Current Half Price Offers

Reformed in November 2000, 99 Squadron, based at Brize Norton, is now the operator of the RAF's new heavy transport, the Boeing C-17 Globemaster III, an example of which is shown on the newly extended concrete runway at Camp Bastion in Helmand Province, Afghanistan.  The C-17s have become the mainstay of the RAF's supply train, shuttling between the UK and Afghanistan, as well as providing specialist aeromedical evacuation and humanitarian relief duties.

Globemaster III by Ivan Berryman. (P)
Half Price! - 800.00
 Harrier GR3s of No. 1 squadron in a secluded hide following a field exercise. The unique vertical take off capabilities of the Harrier allow front-line squadrons to deploy from dispersed sites.

GR3 Field Trip by Stuart Brown. (Y)
Half Price! - 60.00
 Two Spitfire Mk1Bs of 92 Squadron patrol the south coast from their temporary base at Ford, here passing over the Needles rocks, Isle of Wight, in the Spring of 1942.

In Them We Trust by Ivan Berryman. (C)
Half Price! - 95.00
 On 20th October 1943, Wildcat and Avenger aircraft from the Carrier US Core, on patrol north of the Azores, surprised U378, a type VIIC U-boat which had been active in that area. The element of surprise was so complete that the submarines guns remained unmanned throughout the action.
The Element of Surprise by Robert Barbour.
Half Price! - 35.00

MILITARY PRINTS

Click above to see our military art portal - Four random half price items are displayed to the right.

Some Current Half Price Offers

 The Pak 40 - a hard hitting 75mm German anti-tank gun-seen here mounted on an SPW for greater battlefield mobility was essentially a scaled up version of the PaK 38 debuted in Russia where it was needed to combat the newest Soviet tanks there.  It was designed to fire the same low-capacity APCBC, HE and HL projectiles which had been standardized for usage in the long barreled KwK 40 tank guns.

Pak40 Mounted on SPW Half-Track by Jason Askew. (P)
Half Price! - 340.00
<b>Ex-display prints in near perfect condition. </b>

Lance-Corporal Harry Nichols, 3rd battalion Grenadier Guards, winning the Victoria Cross at the River Escaut, 21st May 1940 by David Rowlands. (Y)
Half Price! - 20.00
 British MK1 Grant tanks of the Staffordshire Yeomanry 8th Armoured Brigade, 10th Armoured Division, breakout from El Alamein.

Operation Supercharge, 4th November 1941 by David Pentland. (GL)
Half Price! - 300.00
 Commandos of 1st Special Service Brigade, led by Lord Lovat, are piped past the defenders of the Caen canal (Pegasus) bridge by piper Bill Millin. The bridge was originally taken in a coup de main attack by the gliders of 6th Airborne Divisions D Company, 2nd battalion Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, led by Major John Howard earlier that morning. Shortly afterwards the glider troops were reinforced by 7 Parachute Battalion, and together they held the area against German attacks until the main British forces landing at Sword beach could fight through to join them.

Piper Bill, Pegasus Bridge, Normandy, 13.00hrs, 6th June 1944 by David Pentland. (Y)
Half Price! - 50.00
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fleet Air Arm Ednamay Other Naval Topics 24 19-07-2011 08:09
Grand Fleet? GaryH Naval Book Forum 3 05-08-2010 16:54
Grand Fleet meets the German High Seas Fleet 27.11.18 SCRG1970 Other Naval Topics 3 04-03-2010 21:35
The Fleet which had to die MMM Photo Galleries 23 04-03-2010 05:12


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.