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  #126  
Old 21-04-2012, 20:22
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Wellbran Wellbran is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

Just to add to this discussion about events in history etc and revision in nations eyes etc ect I was watching a film last night quite by accident, it was a chinese film with english subtitles (based on a true story) and it was set in the japanese occupation of china, and at the end of the film in english subtitles and spoken chinese it stated I quote : " In 1945 the japanese surrendered and china won the 8yr war with Japan"....I just burst out laughing! what a sweeping statement! "If you say something often enough the people will start to believe it" ....where did that quote come from...was it Mao?..er no ugh Reagan?...hmmm or was it Blair anyway you get the drift. Nations see things in their own favour or slant...hell! take the Libyan war for example...well we were right weren't we...??????
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  #127  
Old 27-04-2012, 09:25
barryp barryp is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

I bet if you asked the Chinese they would say the vast bulk of the Japanese Army was in China for the duration of the war and I think that would be true. If you ignore the impact of sea and air power on large garrisons wherever they may be then you could possibly think that way.
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  #128  
Old 06-05-2012, 04:22
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BlackBat242 BlackBat242 is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

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Originally Posted by barryp View Post
I bet if you asked the Chinese they would say the vast bulk of the Japanese Army was in China for the duration of the war and I think that would be true. If you ignore the impact of sea and air power on large garrisons wherever they may be then you could possibly think that way.
Of course, the little fact that the IJA still held most of the Chinese territory it had taken when the surrender order came in seems to also be ignored in China.


I suppose that that is where the "we weren't defeated, we just surrendered" comes from... for that was exactly the case for most of the IJA.

They had been driven back from Burma and FIC, but they were still intact and still holding massive amounts of Chinese territory when the Emperor ordered them to lay down their arms.
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  #129  
Old 22-08-2013, 16:50
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

It would appear Gentlemen , having read through the various threads on the War Against Japan, that we have once again forgotten to remember VJ DAY [15TH AUGUST].

Associations such as "BURMA STAR" "JAVA42" "COFEPOW" have been campaigning for many years to the Government to have it included in the Memorial Calendar.

I am reminded of if because of my involvement with all of the above and am well aware that the numbers of servicemen and civilians from all allied nations who experienced this theatre of war are dwindling annually. Many were left all over South East Asia, on land and sea and many returned bearing the scars, physically and mentally - many recovering but many carrying those scars and horrific memories throughout their lives.

I have just reread "Bunts" [Derek Dicker] post #112 on this thread again to remind me why we laid a tribute to the Men of HMS Exeter at the FEPOW Memorial Tree here in Plymouth on VJ Day.

August 15th is an Annual "Flag Up" in my diary - please make it yours.

Dave H

BURMA STAR - Association for all holders of the Burma Star Campaign Medal
JAVA42 - Association dedicated to all who fought or were imprisoned by the Japanese in Java, but open to anyone, military or civilian who saw service in Southeast Asia.
COFEPOW - Association for the Children of Far East Prisoners of War, now encompassing former FEPOW Associations and Clubs.

All three have very comprehensive websites via Google.
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  #130  
Old 17-02-2014, 03:31
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

This is probably the most appropriate thread to post the "Bombing of Darwin" as it was an integral part of the IJN's strategy for the occupation of the Dutch East Indies during the early months of 1942.

February 19th will be the 72nd anniversary of the first of 64 bombing raids on Darwin. This day was chosen because the IJN wished to isolate Darwin from reinforcement by the allies before the planned invasion of Timor the following day 20th FEB. The first and most violent raid cost the lives of 297 soles, of which 280 were lost either on the harbour or the wharf (22).

Of the US casualties, the biggest single loss was the USS Peary (91 lost) the USS William B Preston (15 lost) and smaller numbers on the US transports; Miegs, Mona Loa, Don Isidro, Port Mar and 9 pilots from the USAAF 33rd Pursuit Sqdn. USS Houston sailed the evening before to join the ABDA forces in Java. It might have been a blessing for her to be damaged/siunk in Darwin harbour rather than the Sunda Strait and her survivors suffer those years of deprivation in captivity.

I mention the US casualties because on this day every year the USN sends either a ship or the Defence Attache to Darwin to join the memorial activities.
This year, DDG 100 USS Kidd is in Darwin accompanied by HMAS Ballarat FFH 155 which is here as support for border protection duties (Operation Resolute).

A memorial service will be held at the Cenotaph at 10am, the time the first bombs fell.

Chris
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  #131  
Old 20-11-2016, 16:12
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Exclamation Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

DUTCH SHIPS HAVE VANISHED

"In 2002, amateur divers discovered the wrecks of three Dutch warships sunk off Indonesia in World War II. The three ships; the HNLMS De Ruyter, HNLMS Java and HNLMS Kortenaer; were found at 70 meters deep, 60 miles off the Indonesian coast. Now, something very strange has happened. Two of the three wrecks have disappeared, while a significant portion of the third is missing.

A team of divers who were attempting to film a documentary on the 75th anniversary of the ship’s sinking, were surprised to be able to see the imprints of the missing ships on the sea floor. The remains of HNLMS De Ruyter and HNLMS Java are completely gone, the Dutch Defense Ministry says, while a large portion of the HNLMS Kortenaer is missing.
One theory as to what happened to the ships is that illegal scrap metal scavengers progressively cut up the wrecks to sell the metal for scrap. Scavengers operating grabs from barges can “nibble” away at shipwrecks.
Nevertheless, Dutch officials are puzzled that scavengers could have removed two ships and much of a third without being observed. Also, relatively speaking, the depth of the water, at 70 meters or 230 feet, makes salvaging much more difficult. One salvage expert, speaking to the BBC, said, “It is impossible to salvage this. It is far too deep.” Other salvage operators disagree. Bas Wiebe, commercial manager of salvage company Resolve‘s Asia operations, said they could have cut away parts of the rotting wreckage using mechanical equipment known as grabs. “If time is not of the essence, you have a barge and equipment, you could just nibble away,” said another expert who declined to be named citing political sensitivities, said to the BBC.


Other theories are that the ships were removed intact to local scrap yards, although the scale of such an operation and the appearance of the shipwreck site does not make this likely. Some think that explosives could have been used to break up the ship, but the debris field around the wreck site is not large enough to support that theory. Others have suggested that a storm at sea might have moved the ships to deeper water, although that too appears unlikely.
All three ships sank during the Battle of the Java Sea, which turned out to be a disastrous defeat for Dutch, British, American and Australian sailors by Japanese forces in February 1942. It was one of the costliest sea battles of the war and led to the Japanese occupation of the entire Dutch East Indies. Roughly 2,200 died including 900 Dutch nationals and 250 Indonesians.


“An investigation has been launched to see what has happened to the wrecks, while the cabinet has been informed,” the Netherlands defence ministry said. “The desecration of a war grave is a serious offence,” it added, suggesting the wrecks may have been illegally salvaged.
If the ships were cut up for scrap, it is likely that they were not the first victims. Recently, the Guardian has reported that three British ships and a US submarine that sank in the Java Sea during the WWII have also been destroyed by illegal scrap metal scavengers. As reported by the Guardian:
A preliminary report from an expedition to document sunken ships, seen by the Guardian, shows that the wrecks of HMS Exeter, a 175m heavy cruiser, and destroyer HMS Encounter have been almost totally removed.
Using equipment that creates a 3D map of the sea floor, the report showed that where the wreck “was once located there is a large ‘hole’ in the seabed”.

A 100m destroyer, HMS Electra, had also been scavenged, the report found, although a “sizeable section” of the wreck remained. The 91m US submarine Perch, whose entire crew were captured by the Japanese, had been totally removed, the report said."

The above was sent to me by a contact.
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  #132  
Old 20-11-2016, 16:54
Kevin Denlay Kevin Denlay is online now
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

There is no doubt that the ships (seven in all) have been completely, or in only a couple of cases almost completely salvaged. With all due respect, the salvage 'expert' that claims it is impossible to do this in only 70m max of water will need to eat his words.

Below are the 3D bottom scans made by the recent expedition that discovered the wrecks missing that show where Java and De Ruyter once lay.

The 3D scan for where Exeter once lay can be seen on post #207 here;
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...?t=2166&page=9

Although I myself was very very skeptical when this was first reported almost a week ago (i.e. prior to seeing the 3D scans), believe me, I can unfortunately assure everyone that the Lat / Long positions where these holes are are exactly correct for where we originally discovered the above wrecks in 2002 and 2007 respectively.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Java.jpg (578.4 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg De Ruyter.jpg (552.4 KB, 7 views)
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Last edited by Kevin Denlay : 20-11-2016 at 17:19.
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  #133  
Old 20-11-2016, 16:56
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jbryce1437 jbryce1437 is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

Some more info on this thread

Jim
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  #134  
Old 21-11-2016, 11:24
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Exclamation Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbryce1437 View Post
Some more info on this thread

Jim
And a little more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/n...116115893.html
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  #135  
Old 24-11-2016, 10:47
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Wellbran Wellbran is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

Maybe all these ships should have been just left in peace. When you find them what can you do with them?....not much.. Then it all went public and locations I presume got leaked out then the vultures moved in. Before we knew where they were, now we have no clue what happened and by who. Should have left it alone...bad luck omen
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  #136  
Old 27-02-2017, 14:03
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Wellbran Wellbran is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

Well here we go again 75yrs today this battle took place and now we have an added issue with it...where are the ships gone?...I guess this event and area in the world will forever be cursed to be forgotten in time..it was all shrouded in disinterest THEN and it still is, no one is bothered to find out who lifted those ships from the bottom. anyway here is my rememberance

First 2 pics self explanatory

3rd pic most important boat in Dads life... his own! mainsail made from mums old bedsheet or curtain...not too sure! Penzance Harbour Dad around 10yrs old
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  #137  
Old 12-03-2017, 08:59
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

Nice memories , I see his Pacific Star is missing . His medals would look great mounted in a frame with his photo , and the Exeter.

See my PM to you.

Dave H
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  #138  
Old 12-03-2017, 11:26
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Wellbran Wellbran is offline
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

Thanks Dave for comment looks like you and I are the only ones interested in this battle ...hehehe!

Well now they have disappeared maybe it will be the same for this event in time. Which is strange as my dad was always trying to forget it and struggling with
Normal life....but he lost that battle also. These men were forgotten and never helped all they did for my dad was try and take his pension away all the time as he retired in 1963 due to his health doctor said he would drop dead if he did not stop. On his service record it states.... Character -: Very Good.....ahahahaha! ..bless them!
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  #139  
Old 09-05-2017, 18:20
Kevin Denlay Kevin Denlay is online now
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

Seems some of the culprits may have been apprehended.

http://www.maritime-executive.com/ar...-grave-robbers
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  #140  
Old 03-06-2017, 14:04
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

wonder who purchased all the metal maybe it was stolen to order as it were..would be interesting to find out..but in that part of the world lots of corruption and it would be difficult to say the least, thanks for the link.
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  #141  
Old Yesterday, 23:38
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Default Re: The Battles Of The Java Seas 1942

Assuming that the apprehended are in fact guilty, it's a good thing that they might be off the seas. Unfortunately there's still a long way to go to ensure that even this ship and crew don't just turn right around and continue...
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