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  #1326  
Old 17-03-2017, 06:31
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Ahhhhh but Johnny, you see the reason Theresa said "No", is because she is scared of holding one...........Elsie of course, is never wrong!
  #1327  
Old 17-03-2017, 08:30
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Well Scurs yesterday a collective sigh of relief swept over the land.
We have a two year respite from this grinding neverendum that none of us want. No one has been so out manoeuvred since Villeneuve at the Nile.
Elsie should have known that the PM would seek revenge on her independence announcement. Hell hath no fury like a Tory PM scorned.
Now that their prime agenda has been removed we are all hoping that the SNP will get on with their proper job.
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  #1328  
Old 17-03-2017, 09:08
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Does anyone really believe that the 'Sturgeon' will let it go at that. No chance, she will be bleating on forever and a day. Her hypocrisy knows no bounds, she is now complaining that it would be unthinkable to remove warship building from Scotland in thed event of them leaving the UK. The reason is that they were 'promised' the ships would be built in Scotland.

So unlike the 'once in a generation' referendum which Scotland can obviously ignore, the UK government must keep their word. Has this harridan never hear of double standards.
  #1329  
Old 17-03-2017, 10:42
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Trouble is Elsie has grabbed hold of her favourite Tiger's tail.............and can't let go of it.........., it is of course not HER fault.
  #1330  
Old 17-03-2017, 11:38
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Given that the PM has said that she will not even discuss this matter how long can you go on bleating when no one bleats back? eventually she will just look stupid
It was totally unfair to ask us to vote in a referendum when we don't know how the brexit deal will effect us. Scotland may get a brilliant deal or maybe not but we have got to know before asking to vote.
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  #1331  
Old 17-03-2017, 13:38
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
Does anyone really believe that the 'Sturgeon' will let it go at that. No chance, she will be bleating on forever and a day. Her hypocrisy knows no bounds, she is now complaining that it would be unthinkable to remove warship building from Scotland in thed event of them leaving the UK. The reason is that they were 'promised' the ships would be built in Scotland.

So unlike the 'once in a generation' referendum which Scotland can obviously ignore, the UK government must keep their word. Has this harridan never hear of double standards.
Very good point with regard to the 'promised' ships.

Elsewhere it has been said that the frigate build will be a 20 year project, on the Clyde, or mainly so. RFA build has also been mentioned possibly in Rosyth?

Should Sturgeon get her way, why should the English taxpayers, for that is what it will mainly consist of, be committed to spending many taxpayer 's and providing full employment on the Clyde for many years, all this to what in effect will be a foreign country.

And yes I fully understand we buy much abroad, but for example, the purchase of ICBM's is rather a limited market, and on the whole I do consider the good old USA our friends, generally.

I should admit to a small axe to grind, being a native of Portsmouth, I was sorry to see the withdrawl, by BaE, possibly under political pressure, of shipbuilding from the city.
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Last edited by phill rose : 17-03-2017 at 14:06.
  #1332  
Old 19-03-2017, 11:18
Ednamay Ednamay is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by phill rose View Post
Very good point with regard to the 'promised' ships.

Elsewhere it has been said that the frigate build will be a 20 year project, on the Clyde, or mainly so. RFA build has also been mentioned possibly in Rosyth?

Should Sturgeon get her way, why should the English taxpayers, for that is what it will mainly consist of, be committed to spending many taxpayer 's and providing full employment on the Clyde for many years, all this to what in effect will be a foreign country.

And yes I fully understand we buy much abroad, but for example, the purchase of ICBM's is rather a limited market, and on the whole I do consider the good old USA our friends, generally.

I should admit to a small axe to grind, being a native of Portsmouth, I was sorry to see the withdrawl, by BaE, possibly under political pressure, of shipbuilding from the city.

Seconded, with enthusiasm !

Edna
  #1333  
Old 19-03-2017, 13:29
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Thank you Edna, the troops must stick together.
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  #1334  
Old 19-03-2017, 19:00
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

On TV today, Wee Nicola Krankie admitted she was unable to say what currency an independent Scotland would use, how it would engage with the EU or how the economy of an independent Scotland would function. Now, she's had plenty of time both before and since the last referendum to think about how she sees these things working. OK, she hasn't got a crystal ball but she should be able to give an outline of any plans she has. It seems to me she hasn't got any plans except that of demanding another referendum, and she actually admitted she is undertaking 'very serious work' and would have a plan ready by the time of the next referendum - which of course means she hasn't a plan as yet. The interviewer should have made mincemeat of her, but it seems to me the media always give her an easy ride - although even though not pressured she was obviously uncomfortable with the simple and obvious questions and a little flustered on how to answer. I always gave the Scots credit for being very canny so I imagine of those who saw the interview, very few will be taken in by her, and I would imagine that even her supporters would have been disappointed.

Peter

PS: Incidentally I also saw Ruth Davidson interviewed by that awful excuse for a journalist, Andrew Marr. She certainly had his measure and wouldn't let him use the usual BBC tactic of interrupting just as she was answering a point. Marr always gives Labour, SNP and the Greens a free pass but does his best to disrupt and sneer at any Tory, UKIP or anti-EU interviewee. He's so biased like most BBC interviewers, the exception being Andrew Neil who does his homework and who gives everyone a grilling, and rightly so.

Last edited by barracuda : 19-03-2017 at 19:37. Reason: To add some more text
  #1335  
Old 20-03-2017, 11:05
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Phil , Did I not read somewhere that we could shift our shipbuilding programme to England or Northern Ireland in the event of Elsie and her cronies leaving the UK . ??

She is so full of her own P and Importance that she forgets that the next elections in Scotland could see the SNP out . They only have a voice in Westminster because for some outdated system prevented the UKIP who enjoyed an enormous surge in the last General Election only got one seat.

You are so right , watch Davidson next time round ..... in the leadup to the last referendum she was strong against Elsie and is not singular in her thinking.

Dave H
  #1336  
Old 20-03-2017, 12:16
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Yes, Dave. An anomaly of our electoral system meant that UKIP got more votes than the SNP and Lib Dems combined yet got just one seat whereas the SNP got 56 and the Lib Dems 8. Not sure that I would change the first-past-the-post system to one of proportional representation though, but the actual electoral constituencies need re-arranging so that they contain a similar proportion of the population. I think moves are afoot to make the necessary changes.

Peter
  #1337  
Old 20-03-2017, 12:20
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Thankyou Peter , let's hope that those responsible for the changes do not drag their heels.
  #1338  
Old 20-03-2017, 12:42
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Ref post #1334 from barracuda.

I too saw the interview of Davidson by Marr on the BBC. She certainly did a good job of answering the questions despite Marr's attempt to interrupt. I quite like AM actually and I don't think he is the worst interviewer on the Beeb. There are plenty of other annoying individuals - you want to try listening on BBC Radio 4!!
  #1339  
Old 20-03-2017, 14:42
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Quote:
An anomaly of our electoral system meant that UKIP got more votes than the SNP and Lib Dems combined
Which seems odd, considering (we are told) the Scots voted 60-40 on staying in the EU. Where then were all the Kippers during the EU referendum?
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  #1340  
Old 20-03-2017, 16:08
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Which seems odd, considering (we are told) the Scots voted 60-40 on staying in the EU. Where then were all the Kippers during the EU referendum?
Not sure what you are talking about. I was merely saying that in the General Election of 2015, across the UK as a whole, the total votes cast for UKIP were more than the votes cast for the SNP and the Lib Dems combined and yet the electoral system is such that it translated into just one seat in Parliament for UKIP and many more for the other two parties. Nothing to do with the EU referendum and I don't think UKIP has much of a following in Scotland, if that's what you are talking about.

The actual total votes were:

UKIP 3,881,129
Lib Dems 2,415,888
SNP 1,454,316

Peter

Last edited by barracuda : 20-03-2017 at 16:37. Reason: To add some figures
  #1341  
Old 21-03-2017, 12:57
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Today in the Scottish parliament we will see an event of utter futility that epitomizes the mindset of the SNP. Instead of debating health, education, transport and the economy that are all in a shambles the parliament is being forced to debate for two days a vote to ask the UK government for permission to have another independence referendum. We know that the SNP will win this vote and will then proceed to ask for their referendum that we know will be rejected because the PM has already told them. How anyone can still support this shower is beyond most of us.
It may not be for all that much longer. The ascendancy of Ruth Davidson and the Tories is palpable.
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  #1342  
Old 21-03-2017, 13:47
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Dave, quite correct about shipbuilding in England, plenty of space in Portsmouth, though unsure if we retain the skills.

In a spirit of compromise, how about we let them have the 20 year contract for the frigate build on the Clyde, provided they can meet delivery times, quality etc.

In return the fair Nicola gives us a 20 year lease on the Clyde Naval Base or whatever they call it now, plus of course Coulport and associated facilities.

Seems fair?

Not sure that I would want to change the first past the post system, even with its minor faults, have to agree with barracuda regarding the equalising of constituency sizes. Labour whose favorite mantra is "fairness" when it suits of course, fail to support it in this case, wonder why?
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  #1343  
Old 21-03-2017, 14:08
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

@Phill. More or less what I was suggesting in post #1324
  #1344  
Old 21-03-2017, 14:44
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

I missed that one tending to steer clear of anything that gets overly political, not that you post does that.

As for a Faslane replacement, other than the vast cost of any replacement site, who is going to want it on their doorstep?
There will be Greenpeace, Ban the Bombers, Green Party, and all the associated Flat Earthers, picketing and demonstrating, security just to protect the construction site would be overwhelming.

Have there been any thoughts as to a replacement site? one that has the same strategic advantages, and as I said above, a site that would be acceptable to the locals.
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  #1345  
Old 21-03-2017, 22:13
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by phill rose View Post
I missed that one tending to steer clear of anything that gets overly political, not that you post does that.

As for a Faslane replacement, other than the vast cost of any replacement site, who is going to want it on their doorstep?
There will be Greenpeace, Ban the Bombers, Green Party, and all the associated Flat Earthers, picketing and demonstrating, security just to protect the construction site would be overwhelming.

Have there been any thoughts as to a replacement site? one that has the same strategic advantages, and as I said above, a site that would be acceptable to the locals.
Yes quite a few sites have been put forward particularly before the Scots referendum. With government always denying there is a plan 'B' and that no other location is being looked at (officially)

In 1963 Portland was a contender, but Scotland was chosen instead, the reason being the storage of the missiles, and in particular the warheads. Where else in the UK do we have such isolated and easy to guard sites as coulport. This is the main issue for all alternative sites, not the submarines themselves.

Others sites that have been mentioned are Milford Haven, Falmouth, Plymouth, and Barrow. In fact in 2012 the first minister of Wales,Carwyn Jones, stated that Wales would welcome building a base in Pembrokeshire.

As you mentioned, this caused outrage amongst the various 'tree hugger' parties, and this is always going to be the problem.

One other site is Kings Bay in the US, not as illogical as one might think as it is a major base for their boomers, and it would save shipping the missiles to the UK. Though as the warheads are manufactured in the UK, then we have the problem of shipping them out to the US.

Whichever way you look at it, there is no easy solution if we have to leave Faslane.
  #1346  
Old 22-03-2017, 13:37
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Of the suggestions put forward, I would likely plump for Milford Haven, while in all honesty doubting whether the 'tree huggers' would accept any of them, no matter what the Welshman said.
Milford might well be the best strategic option with reasonable access to the open sea.

The US option had passed through my mind, after all they are our friends, I think.

As an aside to show how things change.
Some years back the company I worked for would carry out lightering operations, crude oil, in Lyme Bay, bringing money into the community, and as far as I know with no incidents.
Couple of years back I was in Lyme at the RNLI station buying some goodies. I mentioned to the man at the counter what we used to do, a look of horror crossed his face "This is the Heritage Coast you know, SSI and all that, we would never allow such operations today".
That is what we are going to be up against.

Perhaps the good old US of A is the way to go, warheads are smaller than missiles.
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  #1347  
Old 22-03-2017, 17:28
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Before the 1st indy. ref. when there was a slight chance that the nats might win there was talk of Britain making all areas pertaining to Trident sovereign territory.
Because of the sad events in Westminster the Scottish Parliament have suspended the indy ref. debate. This goes to show that the PM has enough on her plate just now to bother with Elsie's asperations.
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  #1348  
Old 23-03-2017, 08:17
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

I saw the "Sovereign Territory" thing a while back, you think the SNP and its supporters would accept that?
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  #1349  
Old 23-03-2017, 10:10
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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I saw the "Sovereign Territory" thing a while back, you think the SNP and its supporters would accept that?
Just googe 'Faslane as a sovereign territory' and see the response this drew prior to the last referendum.No way would the SNP accept this. The following link is one of the more sensible articles. You will see the media had a 'feeding frenzy' over the suggestion.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/scot...port-1-2974688
  #1350  
Old 23-03-2017, 13:45
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

The report also warned that independence could lead to a “wholesale dismantling” of the country’s defence industry.

Yes, that would certainly be the case without any customers.

Comments section was interesting, in particular the one saying that the RN keeping the base would mean MoD Navy (AKA the English taxpayer) paying the 6,000 people a salary, rather than Scotland having to pay them dole money. At least one sane person recognises which way the wind blows.
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