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  #1  
Old 06-07-2015, 09:03
fleetchief fleetchief is offline
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Default Decorations

A scenario - A serving member of the RN is awarded a V.C. or a C.G.C. or a D.S.C.

Question - Does he/she immediately sew the decoration ribbon on his/her uniform, or does he/she have to wait until after the formal investiture by a member of the Royal Family?

Note - Google will NOT tell you the answer, but Lance Sergeant Behanny could.

Cheers,

Ed
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2015, 09:26
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

Ed,
I am pretty sure that it would be after the actual investiture, as, before that, only the recipient will be aware of the award.
Best regards
Mike
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2015, 12:30
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Gannet driver Gannet driver is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

Can't be 100% certain on this but I think sewing on prior to must have been OK. I have a photo of my father clearly showing his DSC ribbon, taken shortly before he died. He certainly hadn't been to the Palace as my mother went about a year after he was killed.

Mike
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  #4  
Old 06-07-2015, 13:05
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Egypt Egypt is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

As far as I recall - once one's CO passes over the official letter (forwarded by the Admiralty) to the effect that 'His Majesty is pleased to confer the following award/decoration on name/rank', then from that moment on its in order to sew the medal ribbon on the uniform. Investitures are then organised to suit.
Notification of Awards are published in the London Gazette, and they don't normally refer to the actual investiture date.
Michael
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  #5  
Old 06-07-2015, 13:19
Geoff H. Geoff H. is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egypt View Post
As far as I recall - once one's CO passes over the official letter (forwarded by the Admiralty) to the effect that 'His Majesty is pleased to confer the following award/decoration on name/rank', then from that moment on its in order to sew the medal ribbon on the uniform. Investitures are then organised to suit.
Notification of Awards are published in the London Gazette, and they don't normally refer to the actual investiture date.
Michael
I would agree with the above - I have just read the investure of Bill
Speakmans VC from the Korean war which incidently the first medal
actually presented by the Queen following her accession to the throne
and it mentions that his ribbon was already sewn on his KOSB tunic
prior to his arrival at the palace. For further info - swords and medals
are not worn for investitures just the medal ribbons of all medals whether
previously awarded or to be awarded that day
Geoff
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  #6  
Old 06-07-2015, 18:41
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetchief View Post
A scenario - A serving member of the RN is awarded a V.C. or a C.G.C. or a D.S.C.

Question - Does he/she immediately sew the decoration ribbon on his/her uniform, or does he/she have to wait until after the formal investiture by a member of the Royal Family?

Note - Google will NOT tell you the answer, but Lance Sergeant Behanny could.

Cheers,

Ed
Ed,
I had second thoughts about my initial response and contacted the Army Medal Office. They have said that as soon as the award for bravery has been published in the London Gazette, the associated ribbon can be sewn onto the uniform. My initial comments relate to the MBE etc.
Regards
Mike
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2015, 22:42
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mandrake079 mandrake079 is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
Ed,
...as soon as the award for bravery has been published in the London Gazette, the associated ribbon can be sewn onto the uniform. My initial comments relate to the MBE etc...
This comment gives a slightly misleading impression that there are different procedures for bravery and other State awards when in fact they are the same (at least for serving military which is what the original question relates to). As several people have noted, once the award has been published in the London Gazette the ribbon may be worn, as may miniature insignia when appropriate, which are optional and procured at private expense. The actual insignia cannot (for practical reasons) be worn until it has been presented and this normally takes place at a formal investiture some time (often months) later. However, investitures are themselves optional and recipients may elect to have the insignia sent to them without ceremony, though I've never heard of anyone actually doing this.

Ted
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  #8  
Old 03-09-2015, 18:54
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandrake079 View Post
This comment gives a slightly misleading impression that there are different procedures for bravery and other State awards when in fact they are the same (at least for serving military which is what the original question relates to). As several people have noted, once the award has been published in the London Gazette the ribbon may be worn, as may miniature insignia when appropriate, which are optional and procured at private expense. The actual insignia cannot (for practical reasons) be worn until it has been presented and this normally takes place at a formal investiture some time (often months) later. However, investitures are themselves optional and recipients may elect to have the insignia sent to them without ceremony, though I've never heard of anyone actually doing this.

Ted
Ted,
I think you are right - My comment probably relates to civil awards only.
Mike
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  #9  
Old 20-11-2015, 13:22
EX-WEM EX-WEM is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

The Formal answer taken from JSP 761
(The answer given can be can traced back to earlier publications prior to this JSP coming into force)

Wearing of Ribbons, Miniatures and use of Post-Nominal Letters
1.20. The ribbons of the Orders, Decorations and Medals are to be worn once the award has been announced in the London Gazette, or otherwise authorised by the relevant Service Honours and Awards authority. The appropriate miniature may also be worn with immediate effect from this date even though there will be a lapse before the full size insignia is presented.
1.21. An individual may use the authorised post-nominal letters as soon as the award has been gazetted. A higher class in a junior Order takes precedence over a lower class in a senior Order as regards the arrangement of all post-nominal letters, eg KBE precedes CB. Where bars are subsequently awarded asterisks may be added to a post-nominal within titles and correspondence to denote this, eg DSO*, DSO**.
Honour of Knighthood
1.22. An officer appointed to a class in an Order carrying the Honour of Knighthood (eg KCB, DCB, KBE or DBE) may use the title ‘Sir’ or ‘Dame’ immediately once the award is announced in the London Gazette and need not wait until they have been invested by The Sovereign.


Instructions for Dress at Investitures (Naval Service)
Dress
OFFICERS RATINGS/OTHER RANKS
RN and RNR No1C Dress No 1C Dress
(inc. QARNNS)
RM and RMR No 1A Dress No 1A Dress
The above also applies to personnel serving on Full Time Reserve Service (FTRS).
RFA RN equivalent Uniform applicable to rate, or morning
dress or dark lounge suit as convenient
Retired Service personnel: Arrangements may be made for the recipient to retain their uniform until after their investiture date. Alternatively, morning dress or dark lounge suit may be worn as convenient.

Swords are not to be worn.

The insignia of Orders, Decorations and Medals are not to be worn (though recipients may wish to take these for post-Investiture photographs).

Ribbons of Orders, Decorations and Medals INCLUDING that of the award to be received, are to be worn.

Uniform shoes, rather than boots, are preferred.

Aiguillettes ARE to be worn by:
o
Equerries, Extra Equerries, Assistant Equerries to Her Majesty The Queen and Members of the Royal Family who are Royal Highnesses.
o
Members of the Royal Household.
o
ADCs to Her Majesty The Queen.
o
Honorary Chaplains, Physicians, Surgeons, Dental Surgeons, Veterinary Surgeons and Nurses to Her Majesty The Queen.
o
Members of the Navy Board.

Aiguillettes ARE NOT to be worn by; Staff Officers, Attachés, ADCs other than those mentioned above.

Gentlemen guests should wear morning dress or dark lounge suit as convenient. Ladies should wear day dress, preferably with a hat. Guests serving in the Armed Forces or other uniformed organisations may wear uniform applicable to rank or morning dress or dark lounge suit as convenient.
PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE NO CHANGING ROOMS AVAILABLE.
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  #10  
Old 20-01-2016, 09:29
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Odin Odin is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

'However, investitures are themselves optional and recipients may elect to have the insignia sent to them without ceremony, though I've never heard of anyone actually doing this.'

Apparently quite a few awards made post WWII were just sent out to the recipients because King George VI was too ill to undertake all the necessary investitures. There wasn't any farming out of the task to other family members as is the case now where Prince Charles, Prince William and I think Princess Anne have all presided over investitures for the Queen.

I have in my collection a civil award (Imperial Service Order) that was not presented by GVI for the reason given above. This possibly affected some of the recipients of gallantry awards from the then current Korean War.
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2016, 23:53
fleetchief fleetchief is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

Here’s a question for you for you to puzzle over.

Scenario 1 – A person, who already has a DSC, is awarded a DSO for another action. Later he goes to the Palace to be invested with his award and he is wearing his DSC and her Majesty pins on his DSO next to it.

So far no question.

Scenario 2 - A person, who already has a DSC, is awarded a second DSC for another action. Later he goes to the Palace to be invested with his award. Is he wearing his first DSC, and her Majesty pins a second DSC with Bar, next to his existing DSC or do they take his original DSC before the investiture, add a Bar to it, and her Majesty pins that DSC on his chest?

i.e. Does he have one DSC at home, with a Bar on it or does he have two DSC’s at home, one with a Bar and one without.

Cheers,

Ed
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  #12  
Old 08-02-2016, 16:53
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mandrake079 mandrake079 is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetchief View Post
Is he wearing his first DSC, and her Majesty pins a second DSC with Bar, next to his existing DSC or do they take his original DSC before the investiture, add a Bar to it, and her Majesty pins that DSC on his chest?
I don't know how a Bar is actually presented at an Investiture and I couldn't see a description in JSP 761. At a guess I suspect it might be simply attached to a piece of ribbon and pinned on, but I really don't know. However, just to clear up what seems to be a slight misunderstanding in both 'scenarios'; no previous insignia or medals are worn at an Investiture - only the ribbons. The only medal in sight will be the new one being pinned on, so it follows that it won't be next to anything.

Incidentally, the detailed and up-to-date Directive relating to Honours and Awards in the Armed Forces (JSP 761), which EX-WEM mentioned in his post is viewable/downloadable at https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...urs_awards.pdf

Ted
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  #13  
Old 13-08-2016, 01:15
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bbragg2 bbragg2 is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

In Australia you don't wear the ribbon until it has been presented. I did two years at Government House with the Investitures Ceremonies. Ribbons are worn by the recipients and a holding pin is placed at the head of the ribbons where the governor then pins the new medal in place. After the ceremony the pin is returned for the next ceremony and the medal back in the box until it can be hung!
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2017, 11:43
DLQ DLQ is offline
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Default Re: Decorations

As soon as the medal/decoration/award is promulgated you put the ribbon up. 100%. Getting the tin is just getting the tin, the award is awarded on the date its awarded.
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