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  #26  
Old 13-02-2010, 17:03
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

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Originally Posted by battlestar View Post
It was rare to fine a good officer in the Tsar's navy, let along a great one.
VERY strange conclusion!!!
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  #27  
Old 13-02-2010, 21:55
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

I have a copy of that book, by the Russian officer, altho IIRC my copy has a different Title. At any rate, while it was many years ago that I read the book the conditions described in the Fleet were appalling...to put it mildly. As I was in the USMC at the time the lax discipline and training described were doubly astounding to me.

Talk about sheep to the slaughter...owch. DFO
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  #28  
Old 14-02-2010, 20:18
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

G'Day All
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
VERY strange conclusion!!!
Hi Antoine

Not so strange, it is supported by fact. The Tsar's court was where officers would get noticed, and, if they found favour with the Tsar (who had final say on those filling the High Command), they moved through the ranks quickly. Most of the Tsar's appointments to his military were based this way. ADM Stepan Makarov was one of the rare breed that was talented in naval matters and had influence at the Tsar's court, but his death at Port Arthur saw the end of real Russian opposition at sea.
Much of my information, especially on the officer corps, is from the 1930's book "Tsushima, Grave of a Floating City" by A. Novikoff-Priboy (a VERY rare book), who was an officer onboard ORYOL for the voyage, and survived both the battle and being a POW.

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  #29  
Old 14-02-2010, 22:13
Marek T Marek T is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

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Originally Posted by battlestar View Post
... The Tsar's court was where officers would get noticed, and, if they found favour with the Tsar (who had final say on those filling the High Command), they moved through the ranks quickly. Most of the Tsar's appointments to his military were based this way. ADM Stepan Makarov was one of the rare breed that was talented in naval matters and had influence at the Tsar's court, but his death at Port Arthur saw the end of real Russian opposition at sea.
Much of my information, especially on the officer corps, is from the 1930's book "Tsushima, Grave of a Floating City" by A. Novikoff-Priboy (a VERY rare book), who was an officer onboard ORYOL for the voyage, and survived both the battle and being a POW.

Battlestar
I think your opinion is too strong. There were certainly examples of a man raising faster than those more worthy, but I am sure those, who are wiser than me can point out similar cases either in Royal or US Navy. OK, I agree that in Russian Navy such cases COULD be more numerous. But, like in other navies, there were also many good, well trained and experienced officers. Makarov was not an only one.

Re Novikov-Priboy. I would be very cautious with his book. He was not an officer, but a sailor. In 1903 he was arrested for revolutionary propaganda. The first edition of his "Tsushima" was printed in 1932 and in 1941 he was awarded "Stalin's Prize". You can read more at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_...Nowikow-Priboi, though it is only in German.
Novikov-Priboy gives the facts more or less correctly. But his narration and comments are highly political, usually praising the common sense of ordinary seamen and exaggerating any faults of Tsarist officers.
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  #30  
Old 18-02-2010, 17:24
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

As for A. S. Novikov-Priboy. His "Tsushima" first of all is a NOVEL. He was a sailor and in duty of "bataler" (storeman) so his competence in naval subject was enough low. At second he wrote from the positions of "oppressed poor people" and was ready to put into dirt every government institution. "Engineer Vasiliev" of his book (V. P. Kostenko in reality) was more competent. His book "On the "Oryol" at Tsushima" is well-known. He was a great engineer and shipbuilder but no more than an engineer and shipbuilding. And he also was a revolutionist of the SR (socialist-revolutionist party).
There's a huge volume of literature about the Tsushima events in Russian. Last time many memoirs of the participants (the V. Semyonov's trilogy first of all). I badly know books of this subject in English but can recommend the "Witnesses of Tsushima" by J. N. Westwood where the author gathers the "witnesses" from different sources and tries to give an objective view on the Imperial Russian Navy in Russo-Japanese war.
As for S. O. Makarov. He was not rare. This is a Soviet conclusion because he was "from simple people" and talented. But what do you think of such officers as Grigorovich, Essen, Viren, Kolchak, Bakhirev, Nepenin etc? All of them fought at Port-Artur and then became leaders of the fleet. Tsushima had given its heroes most of which were lost. Remember Miklukha-Maklay, Kern, Ber etc. Remember the deed of Kolomeitsev. I think all this can say much of Russian officers.
The REAL bad thing for the officer corps was so-called "qualification system". By this system every officer of every rank had to get his "qualification" in voyage. Very good idea! But in reality this system led to making OUTER order and to technical non-competence of senior officers.
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  #31  
Old 18-02-2010, 19:15
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

I find all of this fascinating as the voyage and subsequent battle of Tsushima has been a long time favorite subject of mine.

One telling point on the poor planning and morale on the part of the Russians before the battle is that Admiral Felkerzam, the second in command, died of a brain haemorrhage three days before the Battle of Tsushima, though his death was kept secret, lest it seem a bad omen to the crews. The new second in command Admiral Nebogatov as not informed of this fact!

http://www.russojapanesewar.com/roz.html
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  #32  
Old 18-02-2010, 19:19
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Just to remind one and all that there is a thread in the forum about the actual battle which can be found at the link below.


http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...light=tsushima
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  #33  
Old 08-11-2010, 08:06
immcleod immcleod is offline
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Default Battle of Tsushima

hi Everyone,
is the names of all the ships Commanding officers names and their fates known?
Best regards Ian
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  #34  
Old 10-11-2010, 21:28
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

1st Detachment:
- KNYAZ SUVOROV - K1r V. V. Ignatsius (KIA)
- IMPERATOR ALEKSANDR III - K1r N. M. Bukhvostov (KIA)
- BORODINO - K1r P. I. Serebrennikov (KIA)
- OREL - K1r N. V. Yung (deadly WIA)
- ZHEMCHUG - K2r P. P. Levitsky (died in 1938 in Reval)

2nd Detachment:
- OSLYABYA - K1r V. I. Ber (KIA)
- SISOY VELIKY - K1r M. V. Ozerov (retired in 1906)
- NAVARIN - K1r B. A. Fitingof (KIA)
- ADMIRAL NAKHIMOV - K1r A. A. Rodionov (killed in 1906 in Kronshtadt)
- IZUMRUD - K2r V. N. Ferzen (died in 1937 in Pernov)

3rd Detachment:
- IMPERATOR NIKOLAY I - K1r V. V. Smirnov (dismissed in 1905)
- GENERAL-ADMIRAL APRAKSIN - K1r N. G. Lishin (dismissed in 1905, in 1914 - private in field artillery (volunteer), in 1915 - reinstated in naval service (K1r), died in 1923 in Yugoslavia)
- ADMIRAL SENYAVIN - K1r S. I. Grigoriev (dismissed in 1905)
- ADMIRAL USHAKOV - K1r V. N. Miklukho-Maklay (KIA)

Cruiser Detachment:
- OLEG - K1r L. F. Dobrotvorsky (retired in 1908)
- AVRORA - K1r E. R. Egoriev (KIA)
- DMITRY DONSKOY - K1r I. N. Lebedev (deadly WIA)
- VLADIMIR MONOMAKH - K1r V. A. Popov (in service postwar)

Reconnaissance Detachment:
- SVETLANA - K1r S. P. Shein (KIA)
- ALMAZ - K2r I. I. Chagin (suicided in 1912)
- URAL - K2r M. K. Istomin (retired in 1905)

Destroyers:
- BEDOVY - K2r N. V. Baranov (dismissed in 1905)
- BODRY - K2r P. V. Ivanov (retired in 1912)
- BUINY - K2r N. N. Kolomeitsev (died in 1944 in Paris (knocked out by an american lorry))
- BYSTRY - Lt O. O. Rikhter (died in 1920)
- BLESTYASHCHY - K2r S. A. Shamov (KIA)
- BRAVY - Lt P. P. Durnovo (died in 1909)
- BEZUPRECHNY - K2r I. A. Matusevich (KIA)
- GROMKY - K2r G. F. Kern (KIA)
- GROZNY - K2r K. K. Andrzhievsky (died in 1908)

Auxiliaries:
- KAMCHATKA - K2r I. A. Stepanov (KIA)
- IRTYSH - K2r K. L. Egormyshev (in service postwar)
- ANADYR - K2r V. F. Ponomaryov (died in 1927 in Yugoslavia)
- KOREYA*
- RUS*
- SVIR*
- OREL*
- KOSTROMA*
(* Their commanders weren't naval officers.)
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  #35  
Old 11-09-2012, 18:43
Bart150 Bart150 is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

My report on British memorials in Estonia and Latvia was met by a truly overwhelming lack of interest.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...ad.php?t=13246

On the same trip I also saw the Tsushima memorial in the grounds of Karosta Cathedral in Latvia. Well, I had to make notes for myself anyway . . .



Tsarist Russia had three main naval bases in the Baltic: Kronshtadt, Reval (now called Tallinn) and Karosta, a base developed in one great project in the 1890s. Karosta was part of the town that today is known by its Latvian name of Liepaja. In Tsarist times the Russian name of this town, transliterated, was Libava. The relation between Karosta and Libava was analogous to that between Devonport and Plymouth. But unlike Devonport Karosta had its own cathedral - financed by the Russian Navy as part of the project to develop the base!

When Rozhestvensky’s force set out on its epic voyage in 1904 Karosta was the Russian port from which it departed. It is true that most of the preparation was done first at Kronshtadt and then Reval, where the squadron stayed for a month, and that the ships were only at Karosta for a couple of days. Still, Karosta was their last Russian port, and the senior officers attended a service in the cathedral on the day that the fleet set out.

Karosta Cathedral became a cinema in the Soviet era, but since Latvian independence it has been restored and there is a substantial congregation of ethnic Russians. In the grounds of the cathedral there are no graves and only one memorial. It is inscribed in Russian and Latvian. Somebody whom I trust has translated the Russian for me:
In lasting memory of the sailors of the Second Pacific Squadron who gave up their lives for their faith and fatherland in the sea battle of Tsushima on 14-15 May 1905. The service in the cathedral and the departure of the squadron from Liepaja took place on 2 December 1904.
This memorial has obviously been set up since the departure of the last Soviet forces in 1994. The Soviet withdrawal left many ethnic Russians behind in Latvia, some of whom felt truculent at their reduced status in the newly independent country. Possibly this memorial was financed by the ethnic Russian community as a gesture of assertiveness; or it may be that the Latvian authorities wanted to offer a token of conciliation. I’d be interested to know.

With this kind of background it is regrettable that the memorial’s inscription contains several blunders.

First, the date of departure! From the date given for the battle of Tsushima the old-style calendar is being used: 13 days behind the new-style. In fact the warships did not leave Libava-Karosta on 2 December 1904 (old-style); there is no doubt that they left on 2 October 1904 (old-style)! The ‘December’ of the inscription should be ‘October’.

Second, the name of the place of departure! For Latvian speakers the town of which Karosta is a part has been called ‘Liepaja’ for at least several centuries. It also has a German name of long standing: ‘Libau’ (this is the name found in the logbooks of British ships). But for Russian speakers there was a change of name during the 20th century. Up to 1918 the name in Russian for this place was 'Либава' (or as a minor variant 'Любава'). Transliterated into Roman characters this is ‘Libava’. But since 1918 this name ‘Либава’ (‘Libava’)’ has fallen out of use with Russian speakers. Instead they use the Latvian name, ‘Liepaja’. This transliterates as ‘Лиепая’.

The Karosta memorial uses ‘Лиепаи’. This is a grammatically determined variant of ‘Лиепая’ (‘Liepaja’) - Russian, like Latin, being a language where the ending of a noun may be affected by a preposition before it. But ‘Лиепая/Лиепаи’is wrong here. Just as in writing about the Second World War one refers to ‘Leningrad’ rather than the present-day name ‘St Petersburg’ so in commemorating an event in the Tsarist era one should refer to ‘Либава’ (‘Libava’) rather than the present-day ‘Лиепая’ (‘Liepaja’)’. This imperfection is the more noticeable because the authors do show the historical awareness to use the old-style dates of that time.

Third, the set of sailors commemorated! The inscription implies that all the Russian sailors who died at Tsushma left Libava-Karosta with the Second Pacific Squadron on that same day after the service in the cathedral. Not so. The main force under Rozhestvensky left on 2 October 1904. A smaller detachment of ships that had not been ready in time left Libava-Karosta under Dobrotvorsky on 3 November 1904. A quite substantial force of mainly older ships under Nebogatov left Libava-Karosta at the beginning of February 1905.

Before the War there had been the Pacific Squadron of ships. When Rozhestvensky’s ships were sent out, the remnants of that old squadron were renamed as the First Pacific Squadron and the new force coming from the Baltic was called the Second Pacific Squadron (although it would be many months before the Pacific was reached). Dobrotvorsky’s detachment was considered part of the Second Pacific Squadron. However, the group of ships under Nebogatov that left in February 1905 was given the name of Third Pacific Squadron. Thus the reference on the memorial to the Second Pacific Squadron alone is misleading.

In October 1904 Rozhestvensky’s force stopped only briefly at Karosta before setting out on the great voyage. Probably all or most of the ships anchored in the outer harbour without entering the dockyard proper. However, the ships of Nebogatov’s Third Pacific Squadron which set out the following February had a stronger bond with Karosta. In midwinter Reval and Kronshtadt were icebound while Karosta was not. Nebogatov’s ships must have spent the first weeks of 1905 in preparation in the dockyard at Karosta. They must have gone out from the great basin of the dockyard, along the canal, through the impressive swing-bridge, into the outer harbour and so into the Baltic on their way to the Sea of Japan. (The swing-bridge is still there and opens several times a day.)

Most of the ships of Rozhestvensky’s October force went via the Cape of Good Hope and ended up travelling over 18,000 nautical miles (33,000 km) to meet the enemy. Some of his ships and all those of Dobrotvorsky and Nebogatov used the Suez Canal and saved several thousand miles. Rozhestvensky’s force wasted several months in Madagascar, and it was on 26 April 1905 off the coast of French Indo-China that all these units joined together under the direct command of Rozhestvensky: nearly seven months after the first departure from Libava-Karosta. 18 days later came the catastrophe of Tsushima!

Well over 4000 Russian sailors died in the battle. It seems likely from the analysis of departures above that some of them were in the ships that left in November 1904 or February 1905. If so, they seem not to be commemorated, or at least not as explicitly as they might be. I did a small study to examine this point.

The fleet which set out in October 1904 contained 7 battleships; 6 of them were sunk by the enemy and 1 surrendered. There were 6 cruisers; 3 were sunk by the enemy, 2 were eventually interned in the Philippines and 1 escaped to Vladivostok.

The detachment which set out in November 1904 contained 2 cruisers; one was interned in the Philippines, and the other escaped from the battle but was then wrecked.

The squadron which set out in February 1905 contained 4 battleships; 1 was sunk by the enemy and 3 surrendered. There was 1 cruiser and she was sunk by the enemy.

The above excludes smaller vessels such as destroyers and torpedo boats and some lightweight cruisers. (The November 1904 detachment included some of these, so it was not as trivial as it may seem.)

Thus, making the assumption that most of the deaths were on ships that were sunk, it seems true that the great majority – but probably not all - of the 4000 deaths were of men who set sail immediately after the service in Karosta Cathedral on that October day.

x
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KarostaCathedral.JPG (384.3 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg TsushimaMemorial.jpg (489.9 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg KarostaMoleOuterHarbour.JPG (376.6 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg KarostaSwingBridge.JPG (364.8 KB, 6 views)
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  #36  
Old 25-06-2014, 04:28
brian james brian james is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

IRN Knyaz Suvorov c1917 Regards Brian
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  #37  
Old 25-06-2014, 05:11
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian james View Post
IRN Knyaz Suvorov c1917 Regards Brian


That is not the KNIAZ SUVAROV.

She looks like the product of someone's imagination based on a photo of the MARAT.
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  #38  
Old 25-06-2014, 05:27
brian james brian james is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Roger that...pulled off a Russian site and deciphered by a Cyrillic keyboard..Regards Brian
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  #39  
Old 25-06-2014, 08:18
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Please can we not take pictures from the net unless absolutely sure of identity.
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  #40  
Old 28-06-2014, 03:47
brian james brian james is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

IRN Evstafi..Regards Brian...
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  #41  
Old 18-05-2015, 08:05
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
Hello!

Something about the Russian Pacific Fleet in the beginning of the XX century.

In 1898 when the Japanese navy began to seriously strenthen the Russian Naval Department had passed the sip-building program "for needs of Far East" including 10 battleships. The Minister of Finances S. Yu. Vitte insisted to fix 1905 the time for finishing the program. It was considered that Japanese wouldn't prepare themselves to this time.
The result of this delaying was such. The Squadron of Pacific Ocean at Port-Artur had only 7 battleships moreover 3 of them (of the "Poltava" class) had to return to Baltic after the finishing of the mentioned program. The "Oslyabya" was late to reach Port-Artur before the war. And 5 newest battleships of the "Borodino" class only were fitted out or passed their trials. After the beginning of the war the works on them were accelerated except the "Slava" that couldn't be ready to autumn of 1904.
The situation with cruisers was similar. The "Zhemchug" was ready only in September and the "Oleg" and the "Izumrud" -- in October and then had to catch the Squadron.
Also there were 4 more battleships in Baltic: the "Sisoy Veliky" (rather obsolete in some fighting conditions), the "Navarin" (obsolete with obsolete guns), "Imperator Nikolay I" and "Imperator Alexandr II" (these two sister-ships were really obsolete). Plus 3 coastal battleships of the "Admiral Senyavin" class (not really proper for fleet actions).
There weren't some modern cruisers. It was a big mistake of the naval planning. Old armoured cruisers for "cruiser war": the "Dmitry Donskoy", the "Vladimir Monomakh", the "Admiral Nakhimov", the "Pamyat Azova", the "Admiral Kornilov" (protected cruiser) and the cruiser-yacht of the Naval Chief "Svetlana". And also the "Avrora" -- she was late to be at Port-Artur as the "Oslyabya".
And don't forget one more naval dislocation -- Black Sea. Battleships of this theatre traditionally had strong armament and protection but slower speed (16 knots) because they were oriented at first for actions against coast. In 1904 there were 7 battleships in Black Sea and two of them were possibly proper for fleet actions -- the "Tri Svyatitelya" and the "Rostislav". Also one battleship was fitted out -- the "Knyaz Potyomkin-Tavrichesky" such as two protected cruisers of the "Bogatyr" class -- the "Ochakov" and the "Kagul". But as you know the Black Sea ships couldn't be used at Far East because of the "regime of the Straits". It was the great difficulty for the Imperial Russian Navy to have THREE (!) isolated dislocations.
So what can we see? The Russian naval forces were parted as because of objective (Black Sea) so because of subjective reasons (Vitte's time for the naval program). And the world's third navy had to oppose the Japanese Rengo Kantai (Combined Fleet) two weaker parts one after the other and couldn't use the third one.

And two comments (for the first time):



In that time the Russian Navy didn't have such fighting organization as the Baltic Fleet. The forces in Baltic included the Practical Squadron, the Training Artillery Squadron and the Training Torpedo Squadron. The staff of these squadrons changed every year. The Practical Squadron was cancelled in the very end of the XIX century because of lack of ships (most of them were transferred to Far East). The ships of Tsushima never were in staff of some Baltic forces but they were building from the beginning "for needs of Far East".




Correctly Rozhestvensky (without "d").


MAYBE TO BE CONTINUED.

P. S. I'm sorry for my bad English.
My Great-Uncle, H. C. Evans was a 1st officer (at the age of 21yrs) on a (the ?) flagship and was wrecked but survived with damaged eyes (frost-bitten). He joined the fleet when it put in to coal at Great Fish Bay. He later served in the R.N.V.R as a Lieutenant-Commander and was killed at Gallipoli in 1915. I would love to find out more information such as the name of the ship he was on. Does the flagship mean the Admiral's ship?
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  #42  
Old 18-05-2015, 12:03
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

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Originally Posted by mabel View Post
My Great-Uncle, H. C. Evans was a 1st officer (at the age of 21yrs) on a (the ?) flagship and was wrecked but survived with damaged eyes (frost-bitten). He joined the fleet when it put in to coal at Great Fish Bay. He later served in the R.N.V.R as a Lieutenant-Commander and was killed at Gallipoli in 1915. I would love to find out more information such as the name of the ship he was on. Does the flagship mean the Admiral's ship?


There were two flagships in Great Fish Bay - Rear-Admiral Enkvist in the ADMIRAL NAKHIMOV and Admiral Rozhestvensky in the fleet flagship KNIAZ SUVAROV. Neither was wrecked (in the usual sense of the term). Both sank as a result of battle damage assisted, in the case of the ADMIRAL NAKHIMOV, by the crew opening the sea-cocks. It is interesting that your great-uncle joined at Great Fish Bay; did he transfer from the German colliers?
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  #43  
Old 28-05-2015, 09:28
mabel mabel is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Thankyou very much for your reply. I only have information from research

- De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour
1st Officer on a ship in the Russo-Japanese war

-"Georgian Adventure" by Douglas Jerrold

navigated one of Rozhesturnsky's battleships during the Battle of Taushima....poker was the staple occupation of the Russian officers on that flagship, and no distinction appeared between night and day..(Herbert) Clyde Evans happened to be in Great Fish Bay out of a job when the fleet put in to coal...

- Paper's Past

Captured by the Russians in the Red Sea where he charged them a fee to pilot the boat as quartermaster of the "Formosa" thru the Canal and to Suez

Blockade running to Vladivostock

A Chief Officer in the North China Steam Navigation Company
At the fall of Port Arthur

On the Queen Elizabeth in the forcing of the Dardanelle Strait -1915

On the ship immediately behind the Queen Elizabeth

Do you know if there are crew lists available for these last two ships ?
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  #44  
Old 28-05-2015, 12:42
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

The P & O ship FORMOSA was taken possession of by the SMOLENSK of the Russian Volunteer Fleet in the Red Sea and arrived in Suez about the 27th July, 1904 under control of a Russian prize crew. Following pressure by the British Government the FORMOSA was handed back to her owners.

If we are talking about the attempt to force the Dardanelles on 18th March, 1915 then the ship “behind” the QUEEN ELIZABETH as the ships entered the Straits may have been the INFLEXIBLE. The other possibility is the LORD NELSON.

Temporary Sub-Lieutenant Herbert C. Evans RNVR is listed in the January and April, 1915 Navy Lists as being in the Royal Naval Division but I cannot find him in the July, 1915 Navy List. You may be able to obtain his service record from the National Archives.
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Old 29-05-2015, 03:48
mabel mabel is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Thankyou. I now see there is a post with the battle lines for the 18th March.

I have the service record showing Clyde appointed Lieut.Commander 10/3/15.

Also a copy of his last letter detailing how to bring up his ten month old child and one not yet born. His premonition was correct and his record noting three different dates for his death in early June, reflects the conditions of the Third Battle of Krithnia.

Clyde had a telescope presented by the Tzar. Does anyone know of a date for this presentation?

Last edited by mabel : 29-05-2015 at 04:07.
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Old 28-09-2015, 12:07
Bengt Herrman Bengt Herrman is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Hello. Iam new to this forum and read with great interest your article about the Russian Fleet and especilálly the part about the North Sea Incident. I collect postcards in connection with this incident and will hopefully hold a lecture about it at my local Stamp Society in the Spring.

In a Swedish Year History Dictionary I have read that apart from Russian apoligies, economic compensation etc the guilty officers onboard were put ashore in England. I have found no evidence of this. Do you know if this is true and if so any information concerning this would be of great interest.
Regards
Bengt Herrman in Gothenburg, Sweden
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Old 30-09-2015, 22:09
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patroclus patroclus is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengt Herrman View Post
Hello. Iam new to this forum and read with great interest your article about the Russian Fleet and especilálly the part about the North Sea Incident. I collect postcards in connection with this incident and will hopefully hold a lecture about it at my local Stamp Society in the Spring.

In a Swedish Year History Dictionary I have read that apart from Russian apoligies, economic compensation etc the guilty officers onboard were put ashore in England. I have found no evidence of this. Do you know if this is true and if so any information concerning this would be of great interest.
Regards
Bengt Herrman in Gothenburg, Sweden



This story may refer to the international commission of admirals, to which the dispute over the action in the North Sea was referred. I think that several Russian officers were landed at Vigo to give evidence before that commission.
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Old 01-10-2015, 08:48
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Egypt Egypt is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The Deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

I don't believe that any Russian officers were put ashore in England, however if anyone knows differently, do tell.
Anyway, 'The International Commission of Inquiry into the North Sea incident' under the chairmanship of Admiral Baron von Spaun, of the Austrian Navy took place in Paris during December 1904 & January/February 1905 - the chief Russian witness was Captain Klado.
Michael
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Old 19-10-2015, 12:22
Papicus65 Papicus65 is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Alas in Rozhestvensky's fleet there was never enough coal to practice maneuvering, there were no training shells and live ammo was to be hoarded at all costs. All gunnery practice was done without actually shooting the cannons. Also, russian shells were far inferior in quality to the japanese's. Even so, it should be remembered that in the first moments of the engagement, those same "poorly trained" crewmen managed to hit Mikasa with several 12" shells. If Rozhestvensky had received proper support and supplies from Russia instead of being virtually abandoned to fend for himself, if the other russian officer had been of the same calibre as him, if the Alexander III didn't misinterpret the order to change formation at the start of the battle, and if russian ammunition had been equivalent to that of the Japanese, perhaps the outcome would have been different. Yes, I know, that's a lot of "ifs".

Also, I'd like to offer my kudos to the author of the article. Very interesting!

Last edited by Papicus65 : 19-10-2015 at 15:00.
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Old 03-10-2017, 15:06
VonReichard VonReichard is offline
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Default Re: Voyage to Annihilation via Damnation, The deployment of the Tsar's Fleet to Tsush

Hi all,

First post on this forum, so here goes...

I read recently that the Kaiser despatched quite a fleet out to the Far East during the Boxer Rebellion, sending four Brandenburgs, six cruisers, ten freighters and six regiments of marines, under Adm Von Geisler. Departing Jade on 11th July they reached China by the end of August 1900, without mishap.

The point being that the voyage of the Baltic fleet wasn't without precedent, but also showing what an absolute hash the Russians made of it.
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