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  #1  
Old 11-10-2017, 11:14
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Hello my name is Adrian, I've never been in the services but do have a Gulf War Medal with bar from my time in Saudi Arabia, working for BAE Systems. My dad served in the Merchant Navy just before WW2 and joined the Royal Navy when war broke out. I have his Service record that shows the ships he served on etc. His rank was CPO ERA and he was a brilliant engineer. We have a note book with some of his calculations to determine the amount of twist in a propellor shaft. it's fascinating stuff.
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2017, 14:51
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Hello Adrian and a very warm welcome to the Forums. You are welcome to post the copy of the record that you have on this thread if there is anything that you do not understand about it. Looking forward to seeing any contributions that you can make here.

Jim
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Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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Old 12-10-2017, 17:43
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Re: Hello from a civilian.

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Originally Posted by jbryce1437 View Post
Hello Adrian and a very warm welcome to the Forums. You are welcome to post the copy of the record that you have on this thread if there is anything that you do not understand about it. Looking forward to seeing any contributions that you can make here.

Jim
Thanks Jim.

I've scanned as many documents that I can but I'v been having trouble uploading some of these to my picture hosting site. Fortunately I've now managed to get them all uploaded, I hope they are of interest to you.

Dad_service_record_1.jpg

Dad_service_record_2.jpg

Dad_service_record_3.jpg

Dad_service_record_4.jpg

Dad_service_record_5.jpg

Dad_service_record_6.jpg

Dad_service_record_7.jpg

Dad_service_record_8.jpg

Dad_service_record_9.jpg

dad_unc_nat_sydney.jpg
My dad (left) and my mum's brother Nathan Wallwork in Sydney.

dad_royal_navy_whites.jpg
Dad, somewhere in the tropics.

dad_chief_ron_hepworth_dug_farrant.jpg
Dad (left) Chief Ron Hepworth (centre) Doug Farrant (right)

Last edited by jbryce1437 : 13-10-2017 at 15:28. Reason: attachments changed to thumbnails
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Old 12-10-2017, 20:12
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Hello Adrian and thanks for posting his record and the photos. I have transcribed the record below and added a few links:

Arthur Hill: Royal Navy Service Record
Date of Birth: 20th April 1919
Place of birth: Bolton, Lancashire
Occupation: Fitter
Service Number: MX729080
Base Port: Devonport
Sub Rating: Engine Room Artificer

Date and period Engagement: 28th November 1944 – Entered under National Service, Armed Forces Act 1939/43

Ship/Rating/Date

Drake – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 28th November 1944 until 16th December 1944
Raleigh – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 17th December 1944 until 5th February 1945
Drake – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 6th February 1945 until 22nd March 1945
Jamaica – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 23rd March 1945 until 25th April 1945
Drake – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 26th April 1945 until 23rd May 1945
Diligence – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 24th May 1945 until 27th November 1945 then promoted
Diligence – Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 28th November 1945 until 22nd January 1946
Diligence – Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 23rd January 1946 until 29th January 1946
Golden Hind – Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 30th January 1946 until 6th April 1946
Golden Hind III (Gawler) – Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 7th April 1946 until 30th April 1946
St Angelo (Gawler) – Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 1st May 1946 until 13th August 1946
St Angelo – Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 14th August 1946 until 14th August 1946
Drake – Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 15th August 1946 until 19th November 1946 then released to Class A Royal Fleet Reserve




Good Conduct Badges (worn as a stripe on the left arm, below any rank badge):
None awarded, insufficient service to qualify

Remarks
The record has the annotation of CPO but his record and discharge papers show him only as an ERA4 and, as such, he would normally wear a Petty Officers uniform. The Boiler Watchkeeping certificate letter, dated October 1945, also lists him as an Acting ERA 4th Class. Record keeping wasn’t a high priority in wartime so there could be a promotion missing from the record, or he may have been acting local. In the photo of him on the left, dressed as a Chief Petty Officer with Sydney harbour bridge in the background, he appears to be wearing a medal ribbon, do you know what medal that is? Could he be on the right, rather than the left, in the photo?

Did he later serve in the Merchant Navy as the photo of him in whites, alongside the ships boat, does not show him wearing a RN badge on his cap?

Jim
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Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2017, 22:15
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Jim,

Yes my dad did serve in the Merchant Navy before the war. I have some pictures and paperwork from that time, scans below.

dad_1940_merch_navy.jpg

dad_navy_engine_room.jpg
Filling in the engine room log.

He spent some time in Argentina and these are scans of his paperwork, visa etc.

dads_ID_card_argentina_inside.jpg
Identity card outer

dad_immigration_paper_argentina1.jpg
Identity card inner

dads_ID_card_argentina_front.jpg
Immigration papers

Last edited by jbryce1437 : 13-10-2017 at 15:29. Reason: attachments changed to thumbnails
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  #6  
Old 13-10-2017, 09:57
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Sorry forgot to mention the medal. As far as I remember, he had four medals, an Atlantic Star, Pacific Star, and two others. Unfortunately my younger brother took them to school one day and came back without them, that was the last we saw of them. At the moment I'm in contact with the Medals Office to determine which medals he had.
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Old 13-10-2017, 15:11
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Many thanks for the additional photos Adrian. I presume, at the time he was wearing the Chief Petty Officer uniform, he may have been Acting Local 3rd Class ERA. His Merchant Navy service isn't noted on his record, which has his occupation as a Fitter, so I presume he left the Merchant Navy prior to enrolling in the Royal Navy.

Jim
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Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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Old 13-10-2017, 16:42
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

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Originally Posted by jbryce1437 View Post
Many thanks for the additional photos Adrian. I presume, at the time he was wearing the Chief Petty Officer uniform, he may have been Acting Local 3rd Class ERA. His Merchant Navy service isn't noted on his record, which has his occupation as a Fitter, so I presume he left the Merchant Navy prior to enrolling in the Royal Navy.

Jim
From memory, he joined the Merchant Navy after serving his time at Hick Hargreaves of Bolton. I think he may have been sacked for leading the Apprentice's Strike.

He heard of jobs going in Liverpool so travelled there where he joined the Blue Star or Blue Funnel Line. (I'm not sure which, if any.)

During his time in the Royal Navy, he served a short secondment to the Turkish Navy, training their personnel. I remember him being shocked that their officers regularly slapped the ratings across the face if their standards weren't met.

Another couple of stories I've just remembered is, he was on a ship that was used to transport surviving POWs from Singapore. The other is his ship (I assume merchant craft) transported one of the main commanders of the Naval forces at the Battle of the River Plate back to the UK. Possibly Commodore Harwood but I can't be 100% sure.

Back in the Royal Navy he also had tales of chasing Chinese pirates around Hong Kong and the South China Seas, he also mentioned serving on a minesweeper. I suspect we may not have found all his papers but as my brother is now living in my parents house, it's a bit difficult for me to do any research there.

Last edited by ajdh : 13-10-2017 at 18:49.
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  #9  
Old 13-10-2017, 21:14
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdh View Post
From memory, he joined the Merchant Navy after serving his time at Hick Hargreaves of Bolton. I think he may have been sacked for leading the Apprentice's Strike.

He heard of jobs going in Liverpool so travelled there where he joined the Blue Star or Blue Funnel Line. (I'm not sure which, if any.)

During his time in the Royal Navy, he served a short secondment to the Turkish Navy, training their personnel. I remember him being shocked that their officers regularly slapped the ratings across the face if their standards weren't met.

Another couple of stories I've just remembered is, he was on a ship that was used to transport surviving POWs from Singapore. The other is his ship (I assume merchant craft) transported one of the main commanders of the Naval forces at the Battle of the River Plate back to the UK. Possibly Commodore Harwood but I can't be 100% sure.

Back in the Royal Navy he also had tales of chasing Chinese pirates around Hong Kong and the South China Seas, he also mentioned serving on a minesweeper. I suspect we may not have found all his papers but as my brother is now living in my parents house, it's a bit difficult for me to do any research there.
His time with the Turkish navy was most likely during his time on HMS Gawler (ex HMAS Gawler) which he appears to have sailed from Austrailia to Malta, to hand her over to the Turkish navy.
Diligence was part of the British Pacific Fleet, and was where he was probably involved in repatriating POW's, etc.

Jim
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Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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Old 13-10-2017, 21:51
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

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Originally Posted by jbryce1437 View Post
His time with the Turkish navy was most likely during his time on HMS Gawler (ex HMAS Gawler) which he appears to have sailed from Austrailia to Malta, to had her over to the Turkish navy.
Diligence was part of the British Pacific Fleet, and was where he was probably involved in repatriating POW's, etc.

Jim
Thanks Jim.

I got some further information from the National Archives reference his Merchant Navy medal entitlement but to be honest, I'm not sure what it means. His record is at the bottom, date of birth 20/4/1919, Discharge number: R220907.

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Old 14-10-2017, 06:11
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

You need to write to the medal office and give his RN number

His 1939-45 star was issued by the merchant navy

Rest of his medals by the RN

If he had 4 then the 39-45 star is a given
Atlantic
Pacific
39-45 war medal

He may also be entitled to the new arctic star but will need to check ship locations
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in memory of my grandfather A/B C F Harvey RN Boom Defence.

39-45 Star, Burma Star, France and Germany Star, Defence Medal and War Medal

And my grandmother LACW G I Harvey WAAF
Defence and War medal
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Old 14-10-2017, 10:44
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

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Originally Posted by james_harvey View Post
You need to write to the medal office and give his RN number

His 1939-45 star was issued by the merchant navy

Rest of his medals by the RN

If he had 4 then the 39-45 star is a given
Atlantic
Pacific
39-45 war medal

He may also be entitled to the new arctic star but will need to check ship locations
Thanks James.

I am in contact with the Medals Office at the moment to find out what he was entitled to. Somewhere in my memory I remember talk of sailing in the North Atlantic but I can't remember how far north he went. I do know he sailed to Canada, maybe he went far enough north to be entitled to an Artic Star.
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Old 14-10-2017, 12:04
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

I also believe he had 1939-44 Service with MN as he would have been called up in 1940ish

Regards

James
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in memory of my grandfather A/B C F Harvey RN Boom Defence.

39-45 Star, Burma Star, France and Germany Star, Defence Medal and War Medal

And my grandmother LACW G I Harvey WAAF
Defence and War medal
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Old 14-10-2017, 12:15
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

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I also believe he had 1939-44 Service with MN as he would have been called up in 1940ish

Regards

James
Is that another medal James?
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Old 14-10-2017, 13:25
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

You were called up for war Service at age 21. He would have been 21 in1940 for him to start at 1944 is very late so he either had Service with MErchant Navy from 1940 to 44 or he had other Service.

As his 39-45 star was awarded by merchant navy I am guessing he served MN first,

On findmypast should be his MN service record to 1940 his later Service would be at national archives
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in memory of my grandfather A/B C F Harvey RN Boom Defence.

39-45 Star, Burma Star, France and Germany Star, Defence Medal and War Medal

And my grandmother LACW G I Harvey WAAF
Defence and War medal
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Old 15-10-2017, 20:17
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Quote:
Originally Posted by james_harvey View Post
You were called up for war Service at age 21. He would have been 21 in1940 for him to start at 1944 is very late so he either had Service with MErchant Navy from 1940 to 44 or he had other Service.

As his 39-45 star was awarded by merchant navy I am guessing he served MN first,

On findmypast should be his MN service record to 1940 his later Service would be at national archives
Thanks.

My wife is registered with Find My Past but says there's no record of his Merchant Navy service.
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Old 15-10-2017, 21:31
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Not an expert on medals but the 1939-45 Star medal wasn't instituted until 1945, by which time he was serving in the RN. From his service record, his RN time will also have qualified for the award. However, there is no record of the award being made in the medal section of his service record.
I did a search on Ancestry for his name and ship and there are four possible matches for his name and ship (HMS Diligence) but I do not subscribe and I am unable to view the entries.

Jim
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Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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Old 15-10-2017, 23:05
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

It was originally called the 39-43 star

To earn either an Atlantic or Pacific star you had to have the 39-35 star

As this was awarded by MN and all other medals by RN then he was MN first

Possibly on an armed trawler or AMC under a T124 and then transferred to RN

Have a look on the TNA discovery site his seaman pouch may still exist and can be copied on a visit or hire a researcher to copy for you

I can recommend someone who is very reasonable with fees as he has copied a few of my MN records
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in memory of my grandfather A/B C F Harvey RN Boom Defence.

39-45 Star, Burma Star, France and Germany Star, Defence Medal and War Medal

And my grandmother LACW G I Harvey WAAF
Defence and War medal
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Old 16-10-2017, 10:49
ajdh ajdh is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

Thanks to both of you. I think my next step is to apply to the medals office. I have the forms and just need to get a copy of his Death Certificate, which I hope to get today.
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Old 16-10-2017, 14:29
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Default Re: Service Record: Arthur Hill - Engine Room Artificer RN

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Originally Posted by james_harvey View Post
As his 39-45 star was awarded by merchant navy I am guessing he served MN first,
See post #5 for confirmation of his Merchant Navy service.

Jim
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Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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