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  #1  
Old 16-02-2017, 21:33
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JTCarthew JTCarthew is offline
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Default Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

Hello all. My first post.
I've been lurking a while and have already learnt a lot from this great forum.
My grandfather John Thomas Carthew died in 1946 some 14yrs before I was born and because of 'family politics' I didn't even know his name until a couple of years ago. Since then I have obtained his service record and a photo

What I'd like to know is where the photo was taken?
He's wearing a white linen uniform so I guess it's somewhere warm. His time on HMS Dwarf would place him somewhere down the west coast of Africa! The dorade vent and canvas shade could also point to HMS Dwarf. I know she spent some time in Cape Town having a refit - could that explain the un-shipshape ship? He didn't gain his ERA class I until after his time on HMS Dwarf - is this reflected in his badges?
I'm pretty sure that his time at sea after HMS Dwarf was spent in the Atlantic and home waters.
I look forward to hearing your views.
[IMG]http://Attachment 160444[/IMG]
Attached Images
File Type: jpg JT Service Record_zps6syikonv.jpg (1.06 MB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4137_zpshngffdtt.jpg (78.0 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg HMS DWARF-TORP GB-3_zpssxkvfnwz.jpg (203.4 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by jbryce1437 : 17-02-2017 at 12:24. Reason: images changed to attachments
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  #2  
Old 17-02-2017, 01:12
Timetabler Timetabler is offline
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Default Re: Connecting photo to service record.

In the photograph, he is wearing the ribbons of a WW1 trio which would probably date the photo to post 1919. However, he is not wearing his RN LSGC which was issued to him in 1923.
So, the photo date lies between 1919 and 1923.
I can’t actually see any badges.

Trevor
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  #3  
Old 17-02-2017, 12:11
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

Being an ERA he would not have worn badges.
Mike
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  #4  
Old 17-02-2017, 12:36
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JTCarthew JTCarthew is offline
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Default Re: Connecting photo to service record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timetabler View Post
In the photograph, he is wearing the ribbons of a WW1 trio which would probably date the photo to post 1919. However, he is not wearing his RN LSGC which was issued to him in 1923.
So, the photo date lies between 1919 and 1923.
I can’t actually see any badges.

Trevor
Thanks Trevor. I meant ribbons, lord knows why I typed badges!
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  #5  
Old 17-02-2017, 13:44
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jbryce1437 jbryce1437 is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

The record only covers his service until 1928 and the remainder of his service is continued on this record.

Record transcribed as follows:

John Thomas Carthew Royal Naval Service Record
Date of Birth: 23rd December 1887
Place of birth: New Brompton, Kent
Occupation: School
Service Number: 271354
Base Port: Chatham
Rating: Engine Room Artificer

Date and period of Continuous Service Engagements:
23rd December 1905 for 12 years (but retained for war service)
9th February 1921 to complete for pension

Ship/Rating/Date

Pembroke II – Boy Artificer – from 2nd July 1903 until 30th June 1906
Tenedos – Boy Artificer – from 1st July 1906 until 31st December 1907 then promoted
Tenedos – Engine Room Artificer 5th Class – from 1st January 1908 until 29th January 1908
Venerable – Engine Room Artificer 5th Class – from 30th January 1908 until 30th September 1908 then promoted
Venerable – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 1st October 1908 until 1st February 1909
Implacable – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 2nd February 1909 until 29th April 1910 then promoted
Implacable – Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 30th April 1910 until 28th October 1911 then promoted
Implacable – Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class – from 29th October 1911 until 13th May 1912
King Edward VII – Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class – from 14th May 1912 until 17th September 1913
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class – from 18th September 1913 until 26th October 1913
King Edward VII – Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class – from 27th October 1913 until 28th October 1915 then promoted
King Edward VII – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 29th October 1915 until 6th January 1916
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 7th January 1916 until 6th April 1916
Woolwich (Pelican) – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 7th April 1916 until 31st December 1916
Woolwich – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 1st January 1916 until 12th February 1919 then shore demobilised

Re enlisted 9th February 1921 to complete for pension

Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 9th February 1921 until 30th June 1921
Cormorant – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 1st July 1921 until 25th August 1921
Dwarf – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 26th August 1921 until 20th September 1922
Vindictive – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 21st September 1922 until 11th October 1922
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 12th October 1922 until 27th November 1922 then promoted
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 28th November 1922 until 29th April 1924
Centurion (Canterbury) – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 30th April 1924 until 12th May 1924
Canterbury – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 13th May 1924 until 31st December 1924
Cleopatra – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 1st January 1925 until 10th November 1926
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 11th November 1926 until 8th November 1927
Ceres – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 9th November 1927 until 13th December 1927
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 14th December 1927 until 2nd February 1928
Royal Sovereign – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 3rd February 1928 then record continued on new card



Good Conduct Badges (worn as a stripe on the left arm, below any rank badge):
1st Granted on 31st December 1910
2nd Granted on 30th December 1916
3rd Granted on 28th December 1920



Remarks

Jim
__________________
Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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  #6  
Old 17-02-2017, 15:43
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JTCarthew JTCarthew is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbryce1437 View Post
The record only covers his service until 1928 and the remainder of his service is continued on this record.
Firstly - Many thanks for transcribing part 1 - I wonder if you might be able to do the same for part 2? and perhaps explain what the 2.5 and 2.4 Teaz??? next to Pembroke indicate? Also the writing in red?

I am extremely grateful for your link to part 2 of JTs service record. I would never have learnt that my grandfather served in both wars without your help. Thank you again Jim

kindest regards Nick
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  #7  
Old 17-02-2017, 17:00
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jbryce1437 jbryce1437 is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

Thanks Nick, I have added the record to the end of the previous one:

John Thomas Carthew Royal Naval Service Record
Date of Birth: 23rd December 1887
Place of birth: New Brompton, Kent
Occupation: School
Service Number: 271354
Base Port: Chatham
Rating: Engine Room Artificer

Date and period of Continuous Service Engagements:
23rd December 1905 for 12 years (but retained for war service)
9th February 1921 to complete for pension

Ship/Rating/Date

Pembroke II – Boy Artificer – from 2nd July 1903 until 30th June 1906
Tenedos – Boy Artificer – from 1st July 1906 until 31st December 1907 then promoted
Tenedos – Engine Room Artificer 5th Class – from 1st January 1908 until 29th January 1908
Venerable – Engine Room Artificer 5th Class – from 30th January 1908 until 30th September 1908 then promoted
Venerable – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 1st October 1908 until 1st February 1909
Implacable – Acting Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 2nd February 1909 until 29th April 1910 then promoted
Implacable – Engine Room Artificer 4th Class – from 30th April 1910 until 28th October 1911 then promoted
Implacable – Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class – from 29th October 1911 until 13th May 1912
King Edward VII – Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class – from 14th May 1912 until 17th September 1913
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class – from 18th September 1913 until 26th October 1913
King Edward VII – Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class – from 27th October 1913 until 28th October 1915 then promoted
King Edward VII – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 29th October 1915 until 6th January 1916
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 7th January 1916 until 6th April 1916
Woolwich (Pelican) – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 7th April 1916 until 31st December 1916
Woolwich – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 1st January 1916 until 12th February 1919 then shore demobilised

Re enlisted 9th February 1921 to complete for pension

Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 9th February 1921 until 30th June 1921
Cormorant – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 1st July 1921 until 25th August 1921
Dwarf – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 26th August 1921 until 20th September 1922
Vindictive – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 21st September 1922 until 11th October 1922
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 12th October 1922 until 27th November 1922 then promoted
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 28th November 1922 until 29th April 1924
Centurion (Canterbury) – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 30th April 1924 until 12th May 1924
Canterbury – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 13th May 1924 until 31st December 1924
Cleopatra – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 1st January 1925 until 10th November 1926
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 11th November 1926 until 8th November 1927
Ceres – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 9th November 1927 until 13th December 1927
Pembroke II – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 14th December 1927 until 2nd February 1928
Royal Sovereign – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 3rd February 1928 until 14th January 1929
Cleopatra – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 15th January 1929 until 29th January 1929
Pembroke 2-5 – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 30th January 1929 until 18th February 1929
Pembroke 2-4 (Teazer) – Engine Room Artificer 1st Class – from 29th February until 18th May 1929 then promoted
Pembroke 2-4 (Teazer) – Acting Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 19th May 1929 until 8th December 1929
Pembroke 2-5 – Acting Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 9th December 1929 until 23rd December 1929 then shore, pensioned

Recalled for war service

Pembroke 2 – Acting Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 1st September 1939 until 5th September 1039
Victory IV – Acting Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 6th September 1939 until 4th October 1939
Frobisher – Acting Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 5th October 1939 until 20th December 1939
Victory 2 – Acting Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 21st December 1939 until 19th January 1940 then promoted
Victory 2 – Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class – from 20th January 1940 until 10th April 1940 then promoted
Victory 2 – Chief Engine Room Artificer – from 11th April 1940 until 1st July 1940
Drake 2 – Chief Engine Room Artificer – from 2nd July 1940 until 30th September 1940
Raleigh – Chief Engine Room Artificer – from 1st October 1940 until 20th July 1945 then indefinite release



Good Conduct Badges (worn as a stripe on the left arm, below any rank badge):
1st Granted on 31st December 1910
2nd Granted on 30th December 1916
3rd Granted on 28th December 1920



Remarks
He served on the ships in brackets - Pelican, Canterbury and Teazer; with the preceeding name being the Accounting Base
The entries Pembroke 2-4, 2-5, Victory IV, etc., refer to accounting bases, which are noted either as Roman numerals or 2-4, 2-5, etc., I believe Pembroke 2 would be the accounting base and the 4 and 5 were sub divisions of that. Pembroke 2-4 obviously held the accounts for HMS Teazer, but not sure where Pembroke 2-5 was but possibly a satellite base in Chatham Dockyard.

Jim
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Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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Old 17-02-2017, 17:05
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JTCarthew JTCarthew is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

Many thanks for your quick and precise answers Jim. Much appreciated. Nick
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  #9  
Old 17-02-2017, 23:10
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JTCarthew JTCarthew is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbryce1437 View Post
t=1213"]Raleigh[/url] – Chief Engine Room Artificer – from 1st October 1940 until 20th July 1945 then indefinite release
Jim; JT died (from an illness) in hospital on 24th Jan 1946. Does the 'indefinite release' in July 45 indicate he left for medical reasons?

My late father was posted to Australia with HM Dockyard in 1944 and had to get compassionate leave to come home early to see his father before he died.

Given the communication systems of the time and the logistics of arranging a return voyage, JT must have known for a while that he was seriously unwell!

Dad sailed home on the Cunard White Star liner SS Aquitania. They sailed the long way round, calling into Freemantle, Capetown and Freetown before arriving at Southampton some 5 wks later on the 10th Jan 1946, just in time to say goodbye to his father.
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Old 18-02-2017, 07:46
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

Not sure about that one Nick. Medical discharges are usually preceded by a spell in a Naval Hospital, etc. At around the time of his discharge I think many "pensioners" and some hostilities only ratings were being released as the end of the war in Europe was coming to a close. His medical condition may also have been a factor, but the record does not show any evidence of ill health. His age, 58 at discharge, may also have been a factor. His death certificate may give an indication as to the cause of death and whether it was a long term illness. I presume he had some sort of training role during his war years at Raleigh.

Jim
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Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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Old 18-02-2017, 08:05
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JTCarthew JTCarthew is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

I think he was involved with training for his entire time of re-call - all of his deployments were training establishments.
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  #12  
Old 18-02-2017, 14:42
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jbryce1437 jbryce1437 is offline
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTCarthew View Post
I think he was involved with training for his entire time of re-call - all of his deployments were training establishments.
Yes Nick, with the exception of Frobisher, which was in reserve/refit when he served on her in 1939. There is some explanation of the various shore accounting bases in this post.

JIm
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Old Ships: Raleigh 1963, Collingwood 63, Ark Royal 64, Collingwood 67, Undaunted 68, Porstmouth FMG 70, Exmouth 72, Victory 1974 as JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL. Then 28 years in the Fire Service
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Old 18-02-2017, 17:43
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Default Re: Service Record: John Thomas Carthew RN

I am forever indebted to you for your help Jim. With your help I have answered all the questions I had about my grandfather, thank you. JTs chapter is nearly closed now and I have another (distant) family member to start researching - a certain Lieutenant Commander John Lowday RN! This could get juicy :-)
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