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  #51  
Old 06-05-2017, 01:12
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Originally Posted by Navy Stoker View Post
Its actually quite well laid out for instance the ship will only operate in a low risk area. There's going to be 2 civilian crews of 36 with 30 days on 30 days off. As well if the crew size goes over 150 say for an evacuation, then a wavier from Loyd's must be obtained and extra life saving gear embarked. The contract is an initial 5 years with on year extensions after that giving a min of 130 days at sea.
Please tell me that you are joking about the "low risk area."

I know that we as a country are very good at hiding our heads in the sand like an ostrich, but sooner or later our navy is going to be involved in a conflict zone and will need the support provided by this ship. What the hell is the point of having a fleet support ship which can't go into a combat zone?

Only the Canadian government would sign on to a deal which restricts its only AOR to a "low risk area." How incredibly stupid and short-sighted.

We would be much better off buying the ship outright so we could employ her as a normal naval unit.
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  #52  
Old 06-05-2017, 01:38
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Please tell me that you are joking about the "low risk area."

I know that we as a country are very good at hiding our heads in the sand like an ostrich, but sooner or later our navy is going to be involved in a conflict zone and will need the support provided by this ship. What the hell is the point of having a fleet support ship which can't go into a combat zone?

Only the Canadian government would sign on to a deal which restricts its only AOR to a "low risk area." How incredibly stupid and short-sighted.

We would be much better off buying the ship outright so we could employ her as a normal naval unit.

Depends on whats considered a low risk zone. Consider this we are leasing the tanker, we do not own it. We do not do firefighting on board and the civilians run the actual ship. This is not like the Brits or the US where the government owns the ships and mans it with civilians, big difference.
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  #53  
Old 06-05-2017, 06:46
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Originally Posted by Navy Stoker View Post
Depends on whats considered a low risk zone. Consider this we are leasing the tanker, we do not own it. We do not do firefighting on board and the civilians run the actual ship. This is not like the Brits or the US where the government owns the ships and mans it with civilians, big difference.
I completely understand that we are leasing the ship, not owning it outright. I also understand the relationship which the RFA has with the RN, and that which the US Military Sealift Command has with the USN.

My point is simply this - while the planned arrangement to lease this ship with her civilian crew may be perfectly suitable in peacetime, what will happen when the navy needs to send a task group into a potential conflict zone? If the crew is not able to enter such a zone, the navy will be deprived of a crucial asset, just when it is needed most.

It makes no sense to me.

I guess it just makes it all the more urgent for Seaspan to get off its corporate duff and build us our real AORs so that we can employ them properly in support of the fleet.
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  #54  
Old 06-05-2017, 11:32
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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I completely understand that we are leasing the ship, not owning it outright. I also understand the relationship which the RFA has with the RN, and that which the US Military Sealift Command has with the USN.

My point is simply this - while the planned arrangement to lease this ship with her civilian crew may be perfectly suitable in peacetime, what will happen when the navy needs to send a task group into a potential conflict zone? If the crew is not able to enter such a zone, the navy will be deprived of a crucial asset, just when it is needed most.

It makes no sense to me.

I guess it just makes it all the more urgent for Seaspan to get off its corporate duff and build us our real AORs so that we can employ them properly in support of the fleet.
I think personally a risk assessment will be done prior to deployment and where and when the asset can be used will be determined. That being said I do have have access to the concept of operations for the IAOR and i'll have a look for that.
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  #55  
Old 06-05-2017, 23:43
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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I think personally a risk assessment will be done prior to deployment and where and when the asset can be used will be determined. That being said I do have have access to the concept of operations for the IAOR and i'll have a look for that.
Navy Stoker:

My apologies - don't mean to take my anger out on you ... just find this potential limitation in the employment of a critical fleet asset to be very upsetting!

If you have access to the concept of ops and can post it here, I (and I suspect others) would be very interested to see it.

Cheers!
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  #56  
Old 09-05-2017, 11:57
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

Tim: The Canadian Senate report on defence recommends that a second Resolve Class be acquired to work with the Queenston Class once the latter commission. In the interim the Resolve Class would be the replenishment vessels for the fleets on both coasts. The A/OPVs can provide fuel to other vessels in their company.
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  #57  
Old 09-05-2017, 21:52
Lee Day Lee Day is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

Why not just recognize that our military is a mess because the Government, be it Liberal or Conservative have just screwed it up most royally.
That being said, and recognizing that the purchase of aircraft, ships and land vehicles is always under scrutiny by the Government watchdogs why not just lease needed components from the US?
After all, we have no capability in the Far North other than the Rangers and what can they really do?
AOPS... great for chasing drug dealers in the Caribbean and that's about it as a vessel of deterrence.
Ultimately, we will be asking the U.S. to bail us out and then we will be beholden to them.
Am I annoyed? You betcha.
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  #58  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:55
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Originally Posted by Brian Wentzell View Post
Tim: The Canadian Senate report on defence recommends that a second Resolve Class be acquired to work with the Queenston Class once the latter commission. In the interim the Resolve Class would be the replenishment vessels for the fleets on both coasts. The A/OPVs can provide fuel to other vessels in their company.
Brian
I'm all for another Resolve Class being converted, however the I doubt the liberals will authorize such a move. While AOPS can provide fuel to another ship like any other ship in the fleet, it would have to be at anchor and not underway.
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  #59  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:04
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Originally Posted by Lee Day View Post
Why not just recognize that our military is a mess because the Government, be it Liberal or Conservative have just screwed it up most royally.
That being said, and recognizing that the purchase of aircraft, ships and land vehicles is always under scrutiny by the Government watchdogs why not just lease needed components from the US?
After all, we have no capability in the Far North other than the Rangers and what can they really do?
AOPS... great for chasing drug dealers in the Caribbean and that's about it as a vessel of deterrence.
Ultimately, we will be asking the U.S. to bail us out and then we will be beholden to them.
Am I annoyed? You betcha.

I fully agree we need more ships badly however leasing ships from the US is not an answer as costs to convert them are significant and often their ships are worn out not mention the optics to the government. The US government also doesn't have a lot of extra ships laying around anymore.
The Canadian Rangers are a force to guide and train our military and gather intelligence which they do well. I worked with them a number of times in the Arctic during deployments and don't underestimate what they bring to the table in intelligence gathering and local knowledge.
Despite what you have read on the internet, the AOPS will be a very capable platform in the Arctic carrying out the mission the military set for it.
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  #60  
Old 10-05-2017, 19:10
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Originally Posted by Navy Stoker View Post
I'm all for another Resolve Class being converted, however the I doubt the liberals will authorize such a move. While AOPS can provide fuel to another ship like any other ship in the fleet, it would have to be at anchor and not underway.
Navy Stoker:

I think you are spot on - I can't see the government going for another Resolve type conversion. Apart from the fact that the money just isn't there, I think it would spark a firestorm of opposition from Irving and Seaspan, and political opposition which this government neither needs nor wants!

I do think there is merit in the idea of keeping Resolve herself after the Queenston Class come into service. The new AORs will require periodic refits and the availability of a third AOR would enable the maintenance of normal fleet operations during the periods in question. A great deal of planning would have to go into such a concept, but I think it would be worthwhile having this "extra" asset available.
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  #61  
Old 10-05-2017, 19:34
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Originally Posted by Scatari View Post
Navy Stoker:

I think you are spot on - I can't see the government going for another Resolve type conversion. Apart from the fact that the money just isn't there, I think it would spark a firestorm of opposition from Irving and Seaspan, and political opposition which this government neither needs nor wants!

I do think there is merit in the idea of keeping Resolve herself after the Queenston Class come into service. The new AORs will require periodic refits and the availability of a third AOR would enable the maintenance of normal fleet operations during the periods in question. A great deal of planning would have to go into such a concept, but I think it would be worthwhile having this "extra" asset available.

Totally agree, after the initial 5 year lease is up, who knows.
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  #62  
Old 10-05-2017, 19:37
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

Navy Stoker:

One aspect of Resolve's employment which I haven't seen addressed is whether she will be stationed in Halifax or Esquimelt ... have you seen/heard anything in this regard?
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  #63  
Old 14-05-2017, 19:49
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

Looking good!

(From the Ottawa Citizen)

Conversion of Royal Canadian Navy’s interim supply ship moving along

"Chantier-Davie and Federal Fleet Services are moving along with the conversion of MV Asterix into a supply ship for the Royal Canadian Navy. Delivery of the interim AOR is set for this fall."

Complete article and pictures here:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/nation...p-moving-along
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  #64  
Old 14-05-2017, 22:45
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Looking good!

(From the Ottawa Citizen)

Conversion of Royal Canadian Navy’s interim supply ship moving along

"Chantier-Davie and Federal Fleet Services are moving along with the conversion of MV Asterix into a supply ship for the Royal Canadian Navy. Delivery of the interim AOR is set for this fall."

Complete article and pictures here:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/nation...p-moving-along
This seems to be the one good acquisition story over the last few years.
So they charge VADM Norman, ???
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  #65  
Old 14-05-2017, 23:34
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

Assail: There is no indication that any charges have been laid against VAdm Norman as of this date.
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  #66  
Old 17-05-2017, 18:44
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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This seems to be the one good acquisition story over the last few years.
So they charge VADM Norman, ???
Quite agree - this would appear to be a rare "good news" story involving the Canadian navy. The project appears to be progressing well and it will be good to have at least one AOR available to the fleet.

It will be very interesting to see whether she will be stationed on the east or the west coast.
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  #67  
Old 10-06-2017, 21:13
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

The latest update on the project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjlOxp2aKgw

Nice to see a positive news story about the Canadian navy for once!
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Last edited by Scatari : 10-06-2017 at 23:17.
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  #68  
Old 11-06-2017, 14:33
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

Tim;

Quite an impressive project. I wonder, given that it is being built to commercial standards, whether any consideration has been given to damage control requirements as well as NBC defence i.e. citadel, positive internal pressure, filtration units and such. I note in posts above that the ship is not intended to "go in harm's way" so likely no self defence capability, which may also limit its utility. If all of that is the case, I doubt the RCN would be interested in acquiring it after the charter period is over.

My cabin in Protecteur seemed less minimalist/austere than the ones seen in the video but the C&PO's and Junior Ranks might be much better off than heretofore. That said, cleaning stations may also need to be extended to cope with all the heads and washplaces on board Has anyone out there had experience with a mixed merchant/naval crew and how the routines were set up to cater to that?
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  #69  
Old 11-06-2017, 15:48
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

Is it just me or does the video look like part of a campaign to reopen the work alocation of the ship building program to you?
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  #70  
Old 11-06-2017, 19:31
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Tim;

Quite an impressive project. I wonder, given that it is being built to commercial standards, whether any consideration has been given to damage control requirements as well as NBC defence i.e. citadel, positive internal pressure, filtration units and such. I note in posts above that the ship is not intended to "go in harm's way" so likely no self defence capability, which may also limit its utility. If all of that is the case, I doubt the RCN would be interested in acquiring it after the charter period is over.

My cabin in Protecteur seemed less minimalist/austere than the ones seen in the video but the C&PO's and Junior Ranks might be much better off than heretofore. That said, cleaning stations may also need to be extended to cope with all the heads and washplaces on board Has anyone out there had experience with a mixed merchant/naval crew and how the routines were set up to cater to that?
Don:

Must admit that I am curious about her damage control capabilities too. As far as self defence is concerned, there is currently none planned - although a retrofit of some sort of CWIS system would surely be possible ... but is there any point if she is not to be deployed "in harm's way?"

Agree that the accommodations appear pretty basic - my cabin in Preserver was certainly much more habitable - but then I did have to share it with another subbie. Insofar as cleaning stations are concerned, I wonder whether the civilian part of the crew has a "husbandry" team included, so that the naval contingent is not responsible for that aspect of shipboard life?

Lots of questions to be answered - but at least progress is being made and we will soon have some capability to deploy a Task Group once more!
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  #71  
Old 11-06-2017, 19:48
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Is it just me or does the video look like part of a campaign to reopen the work alocation of the ship building program to you?
Not sure exactly what you are getting at here?
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  #72  
Old 11-06-2017, 20:49
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Not sure exactly what you are getting at here?
To me some of the video sounded like "we are wonderful, give use more work". How much of the new build in the naval construction plan have this lot currently got?
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  #73  
Old 11-06-2017, 20:58
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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To me some of the video sounded like "we are wonderful, give use more work". How much of the new build in the naval construction plan have this lot currently got?
Understood.

Chantier Davie has none of the work involved in the new construction plan - all the work will go to Irving on the east coast and Seaspan on the west coast. Davie could not bid on the NSPS in 2011, as it was in receivership at the time.

Very sad as Davie is now probably the most progressive ship-building company in the country, but I suspect that the current government places political considerations ahead of a truly national and effective ship building plan.
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  #74  
Old 11-06-2017, 22:24
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Don:

Agree that the accommodations appear pretty basic - my cabin in Preserver was certainly much more habitable - but then I did have to share it with another subbie.
Tim;

The most "palatial" afloat accommodation I experienced in all my time at sea was in Protecteur. A single cabin with a head and washplace shared with the Engineer (who was a most agreeable individual). The only drawback was its proximity to the Captain's cabin so he always knew where to find me, and the XO was just over the other side. The latter was Dave Harper whom you might remember. But I digress, sorry moderators.
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  #75  
Old 12-06-2017, 00:45
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: Project Resolve - An "interim" AOR

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Tim;

The most "palatial" afloat accommodation I experienced in all my time at sea was in Protecteur. A single cabin with a head and washplace shared with the Engineer (who was a most agreeable individual). The only drawback was its proximity to the Captain's cabin so he always knew where to find me, and the XO was just over the other side. The latter was Dave Harper whom you might remember. But I digress, sorry moderators.
I know Dave very well Don ... when were you in Protecteur?
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