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  #51  
Old 10-09-2013, 11:36
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Brian Wentzell Brian Wentzell is offline
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Tim: Given all the haze around the Joint Support Ship project, one might ask what type of "joint" the project was supporting
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  #52  
Old 10-09-2013, 19:55
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

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Originally Posted by Brian Wentzell View Post
Tim: Given all the haze around the Joint Support Ship project, one might ask what type of "joint" the project was supporting
Brian
Perhaps the type with which young M Trudeau has just admitted his familiarity!
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  #53  
Old 25-10-2013, 22:48
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

The Government of Canada announced the names of the two new, yet to be built, joint support ships today. They will be named HMCS Queenston and HMCS Chateauguay after battles of the War of 1812 between England and the United States over the remaining British colonies in North America. The ships will be known as the Queenston Class. These names have not been used before in the RCN.

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  #54  
Old 26-10-2013, 00:35
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Thank you Brian for the update on the JSS. I had missed any news wrt the names, but that is not surprising as I live in army town, Kingston. It will be interesting to see their battle honour boards. I drove CORMORANT and had a port visit in Montreal, my board listed Quebec as one of our battle honours.
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  #55  
Old 26-10-2013, 00:46
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

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Originally Posted by Brian Wentzell View Post
The Government of Canada announced the names of the two new, yet to be built, joint support ships today. They will be named HMCS Queenston and HMCS Chateauguay after battles of the War of 1812 between England and the United States over the remaining British colonies in North America. The ships will be known as the Queenston Class. These names have not been used before in the RCN.

Brian
Brian:

I like these choices very much ... nice to see us recognizing our military history. These were both pivotal British/canadien/First Nations victories over our nasty neighbours to the south!

I must admit to having a chuckle over the political correctness of the particular battles selected and their recognition of our three founding nations. One battle led by the regular army British-born English General Sir Isaac Brock, the other one by the Quebec-born canadien militia colonel Charles de Salaberry and both involving regular troops, militia and First Nations warriors. Couldn't be much more inclusive than that!

Good choices I think.
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  #56  
Old 26-10-2013, 07:42
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Nasty neighbors to the south? Well, I never!

That aside, I cannot imagine any circumstances where having more warships and their supporting vessels out here in the Pacific can be looked at as anything other than a boon to the defense posture needed to keep some of our more westerly neighbors polite and un-warlike. The more the merrier. Today's financial scrambles between "defense" (remember "bloated armaments" back a century or so ago?) and social and environmental programs is the same swinging of the pendulum seen throughout naval and national history. Too few pennies and your navy can be caught with pants down, too many pennies and others complain they are being shorted. Nothing new there. The trick is balancing the budget, and from what I've seen so far, our leaders in Parliaments and Congresses haven't been able to find their collective butts with a twenty-man working party and a map. Therein lies the problem. One would almost think that the ability to create, balance and manage a budget would be one of the prime criteria for being elected to public office where the fates of nations are decided. One benefit would be getting the very best ships for the dollar possible given the world circumstances they will be sailing into.

The Canadian flag should be flying here in Pearl Harbor a lot more often in my opinion!

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  #57  
Old 26-10-2013, 11:05
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Tim and Brian;

The "new" naming convention for HMC ships is interesting to say the least. Presumably we will now move away a bit from using geographical references, although the residents of Okotoks, Steinbach and Wawa will once more be left wanting. Personally I would prefer that classes of ships were more identifiable by their names a la: Tribals (destroyers), Rivers (destroyers), Towns/Cities (Frigates), etc. It's a bit confusing when everything is named after a town or city.

That said, Queenston and Chateauguay are not too bad a choice.
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  #58  
Old 26-10-2013, 20:13
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Boyer View Post

Nasty neighbors to the south? Well, I never!

The Canadian flag should be flying here in Pearl Harbor a lot more often in my opinion!
Well they were rather nasty in those days Don!

I agree - as I'm sure would most west coast Canadian sailors, as Pearl has always been considered one of the best liberty ports in the Pacific.

Cheers - and keep smiling!
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  #59  
Old 26-10-2013, 20:26
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Yeah we weren't exactly best friends in those days, but of course it was all Canada's fault -- couldn't have be us! Moi?
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  #60  
Old 26-10-2013, 20:46
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

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Originally Posted by Don Boyer View Post
Yeah we weren't exactly best friends in those days, but of course it was all Canada's fault -- couldn't have be us! Moi?
Of course not Don - must have been someone other than Thomas Jefferson who said in 1812 " ... the acquisition of Canada this year, as far as the neighborhood of Quebec, will be a mere matter of marching ... !"

Is it just my imagination or am I drifting somewhat off topic here? Fancy you as a Moderator allowing that to happen!

Cheers!
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  #61  
Old 26-10-2013, 23:06
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Development of a powerful Canadian navy at the time would have helped a lot. And frankly, Canada still having Quebec is just fine with us Yanks. Old TJ bit off more than he could chew with that one.
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  #62  
Old 27-10-2013, 01:20
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Tim, Terry, Done et al: I think the choice of the names for the JSS was actually well done for the historical recognition of the three segments of Canadian society that were involved. From a class name perspective, perhaps they should be called the "Battle Class".

Now that will get the Brits going!

Brian
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  #63  
Old 20-02-2014, 16:12
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Default HMCS Queenston Class: Joint Support Ship

The future HMCS Queenston and HMCS Châteauguay is currently tied up at the south end of the Halifax dockyard(actually, right outside my window!!) in the form of FGS Bonn.
http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/...-bonn/hrux43ln
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  #64  
Old 20-02-2014, 21:19
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Default Re: HMCS Queenston Class: Joint Support Ship

Pat: I will head to the harbour tomorrow to get a look at FGS Bonn. There are also pictures on the Halifax Shipping News and Shipfax websites. I note she has Canadian style RAS gear.
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  #65  
Old 21-02-2014, 00:09
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Default Re: HMCS Queenston Class: Joint Support Ship

Can anyone tell me if this class of vessel can perform liquid and solid (stores/ammunition) transfers simultaneously on each side? We did this regularly when I was in Protecteur and, if it is not possible, that means (possibly) twice the time for the crew to be closed up at RAS stations. Not much fun on a winter's eve.
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  #66  
Old 21-02-2014, 10:12
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Default Re: HMCS Queenston Class: Joint Support Ship

I am going to try to get over today. As for the current RAS gear, they are sailing in company with some Canadian ships and there are some RCN personnel on board.
Not sure about the solid transfers simultaneously with liquid RAS but will see what I can find out.

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  #67  
Old 21-02-2014, 14:56
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Thanks Pat, I look forward to it.
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  #68  
Old 21-02-2014, 20:34
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

I just came across this article about FGS Bonn visit to Halifax

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...sign-1.2546496
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  #69  
Old 21-02-2014, 22:37
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Monday morning 0830 with a group from CFNES - Too busy today (and the Canada-US hockey game was on!). As for the solid transfers, you are indeed correct, it is one or the other on this class. For the last 10 years anyway, everything (groceries, stores, etc) except for ammunition (above small arms) is transferred via Sea King before, during and after the RAS. This will impact our current crew's procedures though as we still strive for a 2 point RAS.
Just a note to the mod(s) who combined this with the existing JSS thread (Sorry, I should have looked for it), punctuation is everything. The convention for names of ship's classes is first of class; hence Halifax class, Kingston class, Protectuer class etc. With that, the colon should not be in the title as the class will be Queenston class.
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  #70  
Old 21-02-2014, 22:48
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Default Re: HMCS Queenston Class: Joint Support Ship

Many thanks Pat, thread title amended to include class.

Jim
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  #71  
Old 22-02-2014, 10:56
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Default Re: Joint Support Ship Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat in Halifax View Post
Monday morning 0830 with a group from CFNES - Too busy today (and the Canada-US hockey game was on!). As for the solid transfers, you are indeed correct, it is one or the other on this class. For the last 10 years anyway, everything (groceries, stores, etc) except for ammunition (above small arms) is transferred via Sea King before, during and after the RAS. This will impact our current crew's procedures though as we still strive for a 2 point RAS.
Just a note to the mod(s) who combined this with the existing JSS thread (Sorry, I should have looked for it), punctuation is everything. The convention for names of ship's classes is first of class; hence Halifax class, Kingston class, Protectuer class etc. With that, the colon should not be in the title as the class will be Queenston class.
Hi Pat;

Thanks for that. In my consideration the inability to perform a 2 point RAS represents a decrease in capability. Sea Kings are not always embarked in the West Coast AOR and are often unservicable when they are. Stores tranfers are not their primary role in any case. Moreover, if the requirement exists to perform solid and liquid transfers during the same evolution this means an increase in time alongside with effects on crew fatigue and exposure to the elements. As well, the ships involved will be vulnerable for a longer period due to their inability to manoeuvre until the breakaway is completed. Of course I'm just a former Pusser, so what do I know?
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  #72  
Old 13-03-2014, 01:36
Scatari Scatari is online now
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Default Re: HMCS Queenston Class: Joint Support Ship

An interesting proposal:

(From the Ottawa Citizen)

Scrap HMCS Protecteur And HMCS Preserver Now And Ask The U.S. For A Loan/Lease Of Some of Their Ships

"If HMCS Protecteur is beyond repair why not ask our American friends for a “Lend/Lease” deal of the USNS Rainier and Bridge?"

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2014/...f-their-ships/
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  #73  
Old 13-03-2014, 19:40
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Default Re: HMCS Queenston Class: Joint Support Ship

Tim:
It is an interesting idea although the RAS gear is different on the USNS ships. They are powered by LM2500 gas turbines so we do have the people to run them. It would allow the steam crew to be retrained on modern propulsion systems and obtain the necessary certificates.

Brian
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  #74  
Old 13-03-2014, 20:06
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Default Re: HMCS Queenston Class: Joint Support Ship

I want to say this would be a feasible option. I want to say that. Unfortunately, we would have to 'Canadianize' them and too many fingers in the pot would mean they would be laid up for far too long to be effective. If we had a lease model as precedence that we could learn from, that might help...not counting the VIC class.
That said, ANTICOSTI and PORT MORESBY filled a training and capability gap in the 90s albeit on a smaller scale with not much more than a coat of 'RCN blue' paint.
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  #75  
Old 25-06-2015, 03:19
Scatari Scatari is online now
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Default Re: HMCS Queenston Class: Joint Support Ship

This is bizarre - and troubling!

(From CTV News)

Finley not worried about delivery of new naval supply ships

"Public Works Minister Diane Finley does not appear to be worried about the fate of two permanent Navy supply vessels that the federal government has been promising for years.

According to federal documents obtained by CTV News, there is a high risk that two joint support ships will never get built in Vancouver. Following a press conference in North Vancouver on Wednesday, Finley was asked whether she could guarantee the ships would ever be delivered
."

Complete article here:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/finle...hips-1.2438434
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