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  #1  
Old 31-08-2017, 19:48
Ian Burns Ian Burns is offline
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Default Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Can anyone provide details - a photo would be nice as well :-) - of Vorpostenboot (patrol boat) Admiral von Hipper.
She may have been based with a minesweeping flotilla at Heligoland in 1918.
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2017, 10:50
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Yes Ian,

I've found details in Part 1 of Volume 8 of Gröner's "Die Deutschen Kriegsschiffe 1815 - 1945." What is there will follow in 24 hours. However, there is no drawing of the ship in the book.

GK
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:44
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Ian,

Details follow in 2 parts:

1.

Career Details: Builder, Schloßwerft R. Holst, Hamburg. She was the second ship of a group of five. Sisters were "Admiral Scheer," "Harburg," "Stade" and "Otterndorf." Yard Numbers: 2054 - 58. Admiral von Hipper was launched in March 1918 (no date given). Commissioned 15.5.18 into the Vorposten Flotille (Nordsee) (Translated as "Coast Defence (or Picket) Flotilla (Northsea)). Four numbers in bold print follow this in "Gröner:" 85,65, 63 and 60 (these are the flotilla numbers to which the ship was attached at various times during her war service). Sold out of naval service 3.4.19 to Hansa HF as a steam trawler (Port of Registry Number HH 94 - Hamburg). I won't go into details of her commercial service unless you want them but here are some of the more important ones. In 1928 she was "verlängert" (Translated as "lengthened" or "enlarged"). On 8.8.40 she was taken up as "BS" for Operation "Seelöwe" but returned to her owners at an unspecified date. She was sold for breaking up 30.12.50.

"Gröner" gives details of the composition of the various "flotillen" (flotillas) the ship was attached to during her naval service but does not state where they were based.

GK

Last edited by Grosser Kreuzer : 05-09-2017 at 12:04. Reason: Addition of explanatory detail
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  #4  
Old 05-09-2017, 12:00
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Ian,

Part 2.

Dimensions: Gross Tonnage: 238 tonnes (as enlarged: 276 tonnes). Displacement: 480 tonnes (approx), (as enlarged: 550 tonnes (approx)). Length: 36.8 metres, (as enlarged: 41.85 metres). Breadth: 6.87 metres (as enlarged: 6.92 metres). Draught: 3.17 metres. Moulded Depth: 4 metres. She had an Indicated Horsepower of 400. Speed: 10 knots. Machinery: 1 Triple Expansion, 1 Boiler (Heating Surface 130m2, Atmospheric Overload 13.5). Range: 4,970 miles at 10 knots. Coal fired (capacity ?) 150 tonnes. Crew: 24 - 31.

As stated previously "Gröner" contains no drawings of the ship and I doubt if there are any now extant but I will look in one final Reference that I have and let you know if I find any.

This is probably as good as it gets. I doubt if there is anything else that is "deeper" or more accurate but if there is it will be in German and it will take some finding: Best of Luck.

GK
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2017, 19:45
Scatari Scatari is online now
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

I find it interesting that this humble little vessel would be named after one of the senior Admirals in the German navy, especially as Admiral Hipper was still a serving officer at the time.

Fittingly, his status was more suitably commemorated when the Hipper class heavy cruiser was named after him in 1935.
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  #6  
Old 08-09-2017, 11:58
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Tim,

I take your point: ditto with "Admiral Scheer" of the same group. However, I wonder whether these two vessels were commissioned warships, when someone "high up" would have had their say in naming them or, simply commercial vessels when the owning company could do as they pleased.

As you know, the German Navy of the Imperial period did name a number of major warships for living persons; usually royal but SMS HINDENBURG was clearly an oddity as would have been MACKENSEN had she been completed though their "patrons" were of noble blood.

GK
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  #7  
Old 08-09-2017, 21:52
Scatari Scatari is online now
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosser Kreuzer View Post
Tim,

I take your point: ditto with "Admiral Scheer" of the same group. However, I wonder whether these two vessels were commissioned warships, when someone "high up" would have had their say in naming them or, simply commercial vessels when the owning company could do as they pleased.

As you know, the German Navy of the Imperial period did name a number of major warships for living persons; usually royal but SMS HINDENBURG was clearly an oddity as would have been MACKENSEN had she been completed though their "patrons" were of noble blood.

GK
A good point GK - thanks.
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2017, 22:32
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Gwyrosydd Gwyrosydd is offline
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosser Kreuzer View Post
Tim,

I take your point: ditto with "Admiral Scheer" of the same group. However, I wonder whether these two vessels were commissioned warships, when someone "high up" would have had their say in naming them or, simply commercial vessels when the owning company could do as they pleased.

As you know, the German Navy of the Imperial period did name a number of major warships for living persons; usually royal but SMS HINDENBURG was clearly an oddity as would have been MACKENSEN had she been completed though their "patrons" were of noble blood.

GK
August von Mackensen was of pretty humble background: like Scheer and Hipper, he earned (rather than inherited) his "von". Perhaps the rather humble WWI vessels named for Scheer and Hipper suggests that, at the time, German opinion did not think Skaggerak as big a triumph as was later claimed?
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2017, 11:17
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Gwyrosydd,

Thank you for the last post. I am not familiar with Mackensen's background, however, taking a point, for the edification of other readers: Reinhard Scheer was never en-nobled and therefore never added "von" to his name. References who indicate that he was are incorrect.

GK
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2017, 23:57
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Gwyrosydd Gwyrosydd is offline
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosser Kreuzer View Post
Gwyrosydd,

Thank you for the last post. I am not familiar with Mackensen's background, however, taking a point, for the edification of other readers: Reinhard Scheer was never en-nobled and therefore never added "von" to his name. References who indicate that he was are incorrect.

GK
Interesting point: since Scheer was a recipient of the Bavarian decoration Grand Cross of the Military Order of Max Joseph, he was entitled style himself "Ritter von Scheer" (this is how Hipper got his "von"). You are right that Scheer doesn't seem to have taken up the title however. (Somehow I doubt it was because he secretly harbored socialist views!)
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  #11  
Old 13-09-2017, 13:31
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Gwyrosydd,

Thank you. As von Hipper was a Bavarian there was clearly no problem in using the title given him by his sovereign but as Scheer was, I believe, a Prussian there may have been a snag in him getting approval to wear the decoration and thus use the title.

Re: Your last passage in parentheses: I agree, certainly Rietschpietsch and Köbis (spelling may be poor there) would have done!!

GK
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  #12  
Old 14-09-2017, 03:26
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Gwyrosydd Gwyrosydd is offline
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Default Re: Vorpostenboot Admiral von Hipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosser Kreuzer View Post
Gwyrosydd,

Thank you. As von Hipper was a Bavarian there was clearly no problem in using the title given him by his sovereign but as Scheer was, I believe, a Prussian there may have been a snag in him getting approval to wear the decoration and thus use the title.

Re: Your last passage in parentheses: I agree, certainly Rietschpietsch and Köbis (spelling may be poor there) would have done!!

GK
(Max Reichpietsch and Albin Köbis were two German navy sailors executed in September 1917 for revolutionary activity in the fleet.) I'm not sure they would have been on the Kaiser's short-list for ennoblement anyway, so their willingness to accept such an honour is rather moot...

Joking asside: although ennobling of senior officers was quite common pre-war, the German Empire does not seem to have ennobled any of them during the First World War. Hindenburg, Falkenhayn and Spee were born nobles; Tirpitz, Pohl, Ingenohl, Mackensen all got their "vons" pre-war; Ludendorff and Scheer were never "vons"; Hipper only got a Bavarian "von" (through the award of the Max Joseph), but was not part of the Prussian nobility. Presumably they were waiting until the war was over?
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