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  #1376  
Old 21-04-2017, 18:02
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
In the Scottish parliament the SNP no longer have a majority but the Scottish Greens led by the gnome Patrick Harvey have vowed that they will always support them in any vote that happens on no matter what.This will give them a combined majority, just. In return the SNP must vote against things like fracking which would be of huge benefit to our country and any other environmental issue that upsets the hand wringing tree hugging bed wetting Greens with the gnome at the helm. What a way to run a country.
Worrying indeed Johnny , shows their decisive momentum and ability to think for themselves ..yea right
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  #1377  
Old 21-04-2017, 18:22
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Must admit that I do not understand at all the relationship between the Scottish parliament and the Government of the UK ... and the more I read the more confused I become!

One simple (I think?) question ... will the outcome of the upcoming election in any way affect the Scottish Parliament or are the two governments completely unconnected?

I am trying to understand what effect, if any, the upcoming election might have on the possibility of Scottish independence.
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  #1378  
Old 21-04-2017, 21:48
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Must admit that I do not understand at all the relationship between the Scottish parliament and the Government of the UK ... and the more I read the more confused I become!

One simple (I think?) question ... will the outcome of the upcoming election in any way affect the Scottish Parliament or are the two governments completely unconnected?

I am trying to understand what effect, if any, the upcoming election might have on the possibility of Scottish independence.
I must say that I have never taken a lot of notice of the subject,so I just had a quick look at the powers Scotland has (devolved powers) and the powers that stay with the UK government. Following may help you a bit without getting too involved :-

http://www.parliament.scot/visitandlearn/12506.aspx
  #1379  
Old 21-04-2017, 21:54
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Tim;

I think if you consider the Scottish parliament to be on the same level as a Canadian provincial assembly, you might see the relationship. Consider the SNP in Scotland as the Parti Quebecois and those in the UK House of Commons as the Bloc Quebecois. This is only a rough comparison of course as the unwritten British constitution is adapted to meet requirements of the times and I believe Ms Sturgeon is the leader of both elements. I would like to suggest (but who would listen?) that our constitution might provide a model for the devolutionary process they are now following. After all, it was and is an Act of the British Parliament and gives more powers to our provinces than Scotland currently holds under their current arrangements.
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  #1380  
Old 21-04-2017, 22:06
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Well Tim GF has laid out the answer to one part of your question that is that the MSPs at Holyrood represent their constituents on devolved matters and 59 Scottish MPs at Westminster represent their constituents on matters reserved to the UK government. Ostensibly the election should have no impact on independence but it's all about mandates. The more seats a party gains the greater mandate they can claim to have. It can get quite complex when people like Alex Salmond was an MP and an MSP.
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  #1381  
Old 22-04-2017, 02:10
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by Pusser509 View Post
Tim;

I think if you consider the Scottish parliament to be on the same level as a Canadian provincial assembly, you might see the relationship. Consider the SNP in Scotland as the Parti Quebecois and those in the UK House of Commons as the Bloc Quebecois. This is only a rough comparison of course as the unwritten British constitution is adapted to meet requirements of the times and I believe Ms Sturgeon is the leader of both elements. I would like to suggest (but who would listen?) that our constitution might provide a model for the devolutionary process they are now following. After all, it was and is an Act of the British Parliament and gives more powers to our provinces than Scotland currently holds under their current arrangements.
The relationships between state/province/country and the prime government will always
be a concoction and cause angst depending upon where the constituents see themselves being advantaged or otherwise.
In Australia for example the states federated and gave the new Commonwealth explicit powers and retained the rest. In the US it was the opposite.
However the real influence lies with the jurisdiction which retains the vast majority of the revenue levers be that income tax, corporations tax and goods and Service/Value Added Tax.
Further it always seems that the lesser jurisdiction blames all its woes on the greater and vice versa and the lesser always has its hand out to receive greater revenue.
  #1382  
Old 22-04-2017, 07:55
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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One simple (I think?) question ... will the outcome of the upcoming election in any way affect the Scottish Parliament or are the two governments completely unconnected?

I am trying to understand what effect, if any, the upcoming election might have on the possibility of Scottish independence.
To fully understand the relationship between the two parliaments you have to grasp the meaning and implication of 'devolved' and 'reserved' powers pertaining to the two parliaments.
The Scottish parliament in Edinburgh can decide on some issues (mostly that which affects Scotland directly) but issues affecting the whole of the United Kingdom is decided by the UK parliament in London.

Definition:-
"The Scotland Office supports the Secretary of State for Scotland [currently David Mundell] in promoting the best interests of Scotland within a stronger United Kingdom. It ensures Scottish interests are fully and effectively represented at the heart of the UK Government, and the UK Government’s responsibilities are fully and effectively represented in Scotland".
https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...cotland-office

The upcoming UK election has nothing to do with (possible) Scottish independence or the Scottish National Party's (SNP) pre-occupancy with that suicidal policy of national oblivion. No (new) independence referendum (IndyRef 2) can take place without the consent of the UK parliament in London because constitutional matters are 'reserved' matters. A request by the SNP for another referendum has already been turned down.
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  #1383  
Old 22-04-2017, 15:50
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Many thanks to you all for educating this poor colonial - I appreciate your explanations very much.
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  #1384  
Old 22-04-2017, 16:38
Rob Stuart Rob Stuart is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Tim;

I think if you consider the Scottish parliament to be on the same level as a Canadian provincial assembly, you might see the relationship. Consider the SNP in Scotland as the Parti Quebecois and those in the UK House of Commons as the Bloc Quebecois. This is only a rough comparison of course as the unwritten British constitution is adapted to meet requirements of the times and I believe Ms Sturgeon is the leader of both elements. I would like to suggest (but who would listen?) that our constitution might provide a model for the devolutionary process they are now following. After all, it was and is an Act of the British Parliament and gives more powers to our provinces than Scotland currently holds under their current arrangements.
Don,

Your description seems pretty good, but the Parliament at Westminster is the legislature for all of the UK and for England (and Wales?). It's as if our Parliament at Ottawa was both the federal parliament and the Ontario legislature, with Quebec still having its own National Assembly.

By the way, it's not true that our constitution is still an act of the UK Parliament. It was "repatriated" ("patriated" would be more accurate) in 1982 and is now known as "The Constitution Act, 1982", rather than "The British North America Act".
  #1385  
Old 22-04-2017, 17:57
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Smile Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Don,


By the way, it's not true that our constitution is still an act of the UK Parliament. It was "repatriated" ("patriated" would be more accurate) in 1982 and is now known as "The Constitution Act, 1982", rather than "The British North America Act".
Not to depart from the subject of the thread, but the Constitution Act 1982 is a British Parliamentary revision of the British North America Act 1867 (and amendments) which framed the original Canadian constitution. It gave full authority to Canada to effect amendments and incorporated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but according to the Canadian Encyclopedia:

Constitution Act, 1982
(Excerpt) By 5 November, the constitutional fight was essentially over. In the next few weeks, aboriginal peoples and women's groups lobbied successfully to reinstate certain clauses that had been dropped in the late-night compromise. The resolution was sent to London for relatively quick approval through the British Parliament, and Queen Elizabeth II came to Canada to proclaim the new Constitution Act at a rainy ceremony on Parliament Hill on 17 April 1982.

As I was just trying to edify Tim as he requested and not present a doctoral dissertation, I suggest we now let our UK colleagues carry on with their discussion of the issue of Scottish Independence.
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  #1386  
Old 22-04-2017, 19:36
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

On a lighter note, I had to chuckle when I saw this funny clip of Nicola Sturgeons response to the Independence question

Jim
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  #1387  
Old 22-04-2017, 21:59
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

You may think that this is funny Jim but this is our daily diet. It's all we get day after day. She has more or less admitted that nothing else matters to her. It's so depressing. The euro, Schengen,hard borders nothing deters her. It's independence whatever the cost.
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  #1388  
Old 26-04-2017, 19:50
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Ms Nicola says the General Election is not about Scotland voting for another Independence Referendum, but today, Alex Salmond says that is exactly what the election is about.

Peter
  #1389  
Old 26-04-2017, 20:23
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Not sure who is the more confused here .....elsie or us ...we can't both be wrong
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  #1390  
Old 27-04-2017, 02:52
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

I picked up this gem on Facebook from a Scots mate.

If Scotland gains its independence in a forthcoming referendum the remainder of the United Kingdom will be known as the "Former United Kingdom" or FUK.

In a bid to discourage the Scots from voting YES in the referendum the government has now begun to campaign with the slogan "Vote NO for FUK's sake"

They feel the Scottish voters will relate to this.
  #1391  
Old 27-04-2017, 16:23
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Hmmm certainly has an appealing preferent as you say Chris
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  #1392  
Old 27-04-2017, 18:09
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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I picked up this gem on Facebook from a Scots mate.

If Scotland gains its independence in a forthcoming referendum the remainder of the United Kingdom will be known as the "Former United Kingdom" or FUK.

In a bid to discourage the Scots from voting YES in the referendum the government has now begun to campaign with the slogan "Vote NO for FUK's sake"

They feel the Scottish voters will relate to this.
I don't really get that, the three remaining countries would still be a united kingdom. There was a cake and eat it moment yesterday when some SNP ministers claimed that with independence Scottish people would still be British.
Anyway its all academic as its never going to happen.
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  #1393  
Old 27-04-2017, 18:31
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

As Barracuda mentioned in post 356 for the first time in the history of the SNP an MP had an independent thought. The strict rules of the SNP state that no one must think differently from the first minister. To think for yourself and have your own opinion is strictly forbidden. Alex thought differently from Elsie and in SNP terms this is quite seismic.
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  #1394  
Old 27-04-2017, 20:50
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Well heres hoping their eruption blow's them apart Johnny.....as I'm sure two ego maniacs will...... eventually
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  #1395  
Old 14-05-2017, 11:12
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

The career of yet another corrupt SNP MP is in tatters after it was discovered that she was involved in financial impropriety when she worked as a lawyer.
The muslim MP Tasmina Ahmed Sheik's jacket is now on a shoogly nail as we say up here.
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  #1396  
Old 14-05-2017, 11:17
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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The career of yet another corrupt SNP MP is in tatters after it was discovered that she was involved in financial impropriety when she worked as a lawyer.
The muslim MP Tasmina Ahmed Sheik's jacket is now on a shoogly nail as we say up here.
The word is that she will now stand as a UKIP MP.
She has already been with the conservatives and labour.
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  #1397  
Old 15-05-2017, 19:22
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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The word is that she will now stand as a UKIP MP.
She has already been with the conservatives and labour.
You mean as long as her snout is in the trough her values and beliefs are immaterial.
We have our fair share of those in Oz.
  #1398  
Old 16-05-2017, 02:39
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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You mean as long as her snout is in the trough her values and beliefs are immaterial.
We have our fair share of those in Oz.
Some of them here in the Great White North too - although I can't remember one as flagrantly opportunistic as this particular woman.

One can only hope the voters will give her the bum's rush!
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  #1399  
Old 07-06-2017, 17:51
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Last night the Scottish leaders debated on TV.
Kesia Dugdale the labour leader was moaning about the horrors of independence when Elsie said to her after the brexit vote you phoned me to tell
me that because of the result you would no longer oppose independence. To this Kesia called her a liar. Well one of them is. This reflected badly on both these women, Elsie for betraying the trust of a private conversation and Kesia for betraying her anti independence party, and one of them being a liar.
It will be the same down there but up here we don't mind if your black or white, gay or straight, protestant or catholic, we even tolerate liberals but we despise liars.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:01
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

I am guessing that the SNP's losses in yesterday's election mean that the chances of Indyref2 are significantly reduced - or do I not understand the situation?
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