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  #1151  
Old 05-09-2014, 22:09
Canada Para Canada Para is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Scotland can use the pound and simply peg it to whatever exchange rate/interest rate England has.

The currency scare is a red herring from the 'better together' group. Cameron has interfered by switching EU funds from England to Scotland & the scare stories around job losses & budget shortfalls.

From the little I saw, Alex Salmond killed Darling in the 2nd debate. Ed Miliband was in Scotland this week & was practically hounded out of town.


The Scots should stand tall, believe in themselves & go for it. Devolution has shifted very little power to Holyrood, it was a sop from a Labour government that has been well & truly found out.

If the SNP doesn't win the referendum, having been elected to govern, a defeat will surely leave them in an untenable position?
  #1152  
Old 06-09-2014, 08:38
Rupert Rupert is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by Canada Para View Post
Scotland can use the pound and simply peg it to whatever exchange rate/interest rate England has.

The currency scare is a red herring from the 'better together' group. Cameron has interfered by switching EU funds from England to Scotland & the scare stories around job losses & budget shortfalls.
They can indeed do that. Any country can do that, But that isn't good enough for Salmond because he won't have any input to the interest rate decision so it will be set for the purposes of RUK and not Scotland. So he wants a voice on the monetary committee. Plus any time the money supply is increased, Scotland effectively loses out.

Funding to Scotland is covered by the Barnett formula so is not within Cameron's gift. And the scare stories are real. It is fact that some banks have plans to move south if Scotland goes independent. It is a fact that warship building for the RN will move South no matter how much the SNP argues with it. That would almost certainly result in the closure of several shipyards in Scotland as they are uncompetitive without that.
  #1153  
Old 06-09-2014, 09:25
NABERA NABERA is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
They can indeed do that. Any country can do that, But that isn't good enough for Salmond because he won't have any input to the interest rate decision so it will be set for the purposes of RUK and not Scotland. So he wants a voice on the monetary committee. Plus any time the money supply is increased, Scotland effectively loses out.

Funding to Scotland is covered by the Barnett formula so is not within Cameron's gift. And the scare stories are real. It is fact that some banks have plans to move south if Scotland goes independent. It is a fact that warship building for the RN will move South no matter how much the SNP argues with it. That would almost certainly result in the closure of several shipyards in Scotland as they are uncompetitive without that.
I have no intention of discussing the pros and cons of an Indy Scotland's finances. Suffice to note that of the scores of countries that have gained Indy in the past years, in general it has not created insurmountable problems. Countries with far fewer materiel and manpower resources have succeeded perfectly well when free of the dead hand of London control.

It is a little dramatic to suggest that "Banks will move south on Indy." Perhaps they will, but as has been claimed already by RBS, "95% of business is already conducted outwith Scotland." It is merely a case of moving a brass plate from Edinburgh to London.
However it is worth noting that Standard Life made a lot of noise about the terrible effects of creating a Scottish Parliament in 1997 and said that if it was created, then SL would be moving south. They are still here, and to the best of my knowledge they are still thriving.

Regarding shipbuilding. Yes, the industry that has become over-reliant on MOD orders, soon to reduce in any circumstance.
In 1979 when Scotland was voting for a devolved government, one of the scare stories put about was that the shipbuilding industry would collapse.
At that time there were 33,000 people employed in shipbuilding. Although 51.6% of voters voted"YES", the underhand 40% rule meant it was classed as a "NO" vote. So we stayed the same.... and the number of persons in shipbuilding has since dropped to 5,000. What happened to the 28,000?

It is important to note a real hope in Jim McColl's acquisition of the recently failed Ferguson's yard in Port Glasgow. Here is a man with a vision for Scottish industry. Someone who intends not just to keep the yard going, but to invest heavily in it and increase output and jobs. He has been supported in his aim by the Scottish Government. If it had been left to the UK government, then the work force there would have faced nothing but the dole, not even a suggestion of hope. That is why the people of Scotland want to have control over our own affairs, just like the scores of other nations that have claimed Indy over the years, and never looked back.

Last edited by NABERA : 06-09-2014 at 09:58.
  #1154  
Old 06-09-2014, 09:55
NABERA NABERA is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada Para View Post
Scotland can use the pound and simply peg it to whatever exchange rate/interest rate England has.

The currency scare is a red herring from the 'better together' group. Cameron has interfered by switching EU funds from England to Scotland & the scare stories around job losses & budget shortfalls.

From the little I saw, Alex Salmond killed Darling in the 2nd debate. Ed Miliband was in Scotland this week & was practically hounded out of town.


The Scots should stand tall, believe in themselves & go for it. Devolution has shifted very little power to Holyrood, it was a sop from a Labour government that has been well & truly found out.

If the SNP doesn't win the referendum, having been elected to govern, a defeat will surely leave them in an untenable position?
Indeed the currency matter is a red herring. Like the other scare stories, that have been de-bunked by knowledgeable persons.
However, the lie is still peddled by the likes of Lamont and Darling as "fact".
All that this has meant is that most people disregard the latest diatribe from Westminster broadcast through its compliant mouthpieces. It is having a negative effect for the "no" campaign, yet they don't seem to be able to work that out.....

Regarding the powers that have been devolved to Holyrood, it must be remembered that these powers remain devolved only as long as it suits Westminster. They can be taken away at a whim, as happened recently with one power for renewable energy development. This was passed by the House of Lords, an undemocratic institution. The reason for removing this power is thought to be in line with allowing fracking applications to go ahead without the inconvenience of public enquiries and planning restrictions. So much for democracy.

Finally CP, if I may correct your comment "If the SNP doesn't win the referendum,.... " We aren't voting for the SNP. As I noted a few posts back, the "YES" campaign is a very wide based campaign. As well as the SNP, the Scottish Socialist Party and the Greens are very actively supporting Indy. There is then a huge number of diverse groups such as "Lawyers for Indy",
"NHS for Indy", "Farming for YES", "YES Youths and Students", "Christians for Indy", "Aussies for Scottish Indy", " National Collective" and many, many more. Then there are scores of regional, town and village groups with websites, sharing information, volunteering to man stalls and run events across the country
It is very much a "grass roots" campaign, in complete contrast to the "NO" campaign which is funded by UK government, wealthy tories and big business, and to man the stalls, has to resort to bussing in supporters from beyond Scotland and pay them!
  #1155  
Old 06-09-2014, 10:46
Rupert Rupert is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

I have no wish to bring this thread down in its standards, but frankly, what a lot of claptrap.

SL & RBS will move because if they are based in London then the govt will automatically guarantee the deposits of 95% of their customers (as they do now). If they do not move then every intelligent customer will move their accounts.

If the No campaign is only the Tories (who of course fare badly in Scotland) how come they are still ahead in the polls? Ridiculous assertion. And bussing supporters in from outside? How does that work with the electoral role?

What a shining success story Fergusson's is:
Quote:
On Friday, 15 August 2014, the shipyard appointed KPMG as administrators, placing the company into administration
As for the scores of countries gaining independence. This is a complete list in the 21st century. Interesting to see what you see as a comparison for success of an independent Scotland
East Timor
Montenegro
South Sudan
Kosovo
South Ossetia
Abkhazia

For the record, I don't believe that Scotland will sink as low as those (you chose that comparison) or indeed much at all. But the industries I mentioned will suffer heavily in the short term, and in the medium term it will not be able to become more competitive by devaluation of its currency, or lowering interest rates, because your govt wants to peg to Sterling

Finally, you are right that the independence campaign is a broad coalition, one that if successful will find after independence that you all have very different ideas of what an independent Scotland should be like. For example Salmond talks of attractive industry with low tax rates, but Scotland is far more left wing than most of the UK, so such ideas will never be popular.

If you all want independence then so be it. But don't kid yourself it will be painless
  #1156  
Old 06-09-2014, 13:04
NABERA NABERA is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
I have no wish to bring this thread down in its standards, but frankly, what a lot of claptrap.

SL & RBS will move because if they are based in London then the govt will automatically guarantee the deposits of 95% of their customers (as they do now). If they do not move then every intelligent customer will move their accounts.

If the No campaign is only the Tories (who of course fare badly in Scotland) how come they are still ahead in the polls? Ridiculous assertion. And bussing supporters in from outside? How does that work with the electoral role?

What a shining success story Fergusson's is:


As for the scores of countries gaining independence. This is a complete list in the 21st century. Interesting to see what you see as a comparison for success of an independent Scotland
East Timor
Montenegro
South Sudan
Kosovo
South Ossetia
Abkhazia

For the record, I don't believe that Scotland will sink as low as those (you chose that comparison) or indeed much at all. But the industries I mentioned will suffer heavily in the short term, and in the medium term it will not be able to become more competitive by devaluation of its currency, or lowering interest rates, because your govt wants to peg to Sterling

Finally, you are right that the independence campaign is a broad coalition, one that if successful will find after independence that you all have very different ideas of what an independent Scotland should be like. For example Salmond talks of attractive industry with low tax rates, but Scotland is far more left wing than most of the UK, so such ideas will never be popular.

If you all want independence then so be it. But don't kid yourself it will be painless
I don't "kid myself" for a moment that it will be painless. I'm not aware of any reasonable person suggesting otherwise. We have a great deal of hard work ahead of us, the first item that needs to be addressed is a written constitution that holds politicians to account, unlike the vague constitution that suits the politicians in westminster.

Regarding Ferguson's shipyard. If you had read the news, you would have realised that Jim McColl has taken it out of receivership since the 15th August. I have no doubt, from his past record, that he will make it a success.

Regarding those countries gaining Indy, I was referring to those breaking away from the UK. Have any expressed an interest in returning to London control? India? Australia? US? Ireland?

Having listened to several people with a very positive idea of Scotland's future, I will be voting for Indy on the 18th, along with a huge number of others. I am certain that Scotland will become an Independent nation, if not from this referendum, then at a later date

I have no intention of addressing the rest of your comments, as in your own words, you have lowered the tone of the thread. I have had many reasoned and civil discussions with "naysayers" and we have been able to respect each others points of view.

Enjoy your week-end.

Last edited by NABERA : 06-09-2014 at 13:48. Reason: spelling
  #1157  
Old 06-09-2014, 17:34
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Alan, Your moving the goalposts.
Whatever way this goes is forever, till the end of time, at a later date doesnt enter into it. There will be no at a later date.


I was watching the Braemar Games on the news and the commentator said Alex Salmond has said ;- the queen will be our head of state, really, has anyone even asked her.
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  #1158  
Old 06-09-2014, 17:43
NABERA NABERA is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
Alan, Your moving the goalposts.
Whatever way this goes is forever, till the end of time, at a later date doesnt enter into it. There will be no at a later date.
News to me Johnny. Can you give a reference please?
  #1159  
Old 06-09-2014, 18:16
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
Whatever way this goes is forever, till the end of time, at a later date doesnt enter into it. There will be no at a later date.
Johnny:

If our experience here in the colonies is anything to go by, (with Quebec's periodic bids for independence), if the "No" side wins this referendum, there will almost certainly be a "later date".

Such dreams never die among those who believe so strongly in their cause.
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  #1160  
Old 08-09-2014, 10:03
eskimosailor's Avatar
eskimosailor eskimosailor is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

I cannot find any reference to the facts, but, if the vote goes YES for independence, how soon is it before all Scottish MPs at Westminster lose their seats and become ineligible to vote in English affairs? Also I assume they will lose their pay from that point, and presumably will receive some sort of severance compensation. Who would pay this, and if it's Westminster why should I be expected to contribute to something that Alex Salmond has brought about?
Steve
  #1161  
Old 08-09-2014, 11:47
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by eskimosailor View Post
I cannot find any reference to the facts, but, if the vote goes YES for independence, how soon is it before all Scottish MPs at Westminster lose their seats and become ineligible to vote in English affairs? Also I assume they will lose their pay from that point, and presumably will receive some sort of severance compensation. Who would pay this, and if it's Westminster why should I be expected to contribute to something that Alex Salmond has brought about?
Steve
Put your wallet away Steve, it's not going to happen.
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  #1162  
Old 08-09-2014, 12:37
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

There are 400,000 English people living in Scotland and 66% of these according to a poll intend to vote no. It was interesting to learn that no English people were asked in the recent Yougov poll how they would vote.

PS there are 830,000 Scots living in England.
PPS word on the street up here is that Kate's pregnancy is all part of the Better Togeather campaign.
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  #1163  
Old 08-09-2014, 12:39
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
There are 400,000 English people living in Scotland and 66% of these according to a poll intend to vote no. It was interesting to learn that no English people were asked in the recent Yougov poll how they would vote.

PS there are 830,000 Scots living in England.
PPS word on the street up here is that Kate's pregnancy is all part of the Better Togeather campaign.
not togeather but together
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  #1164  
Old 08-09-2014, 13:02
Mitch Hinde Mitch Hinde is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Hi All

Who is Bruce Ogilivie, what is "Siol nan Gaidheal", what standing do they have in Scotland, and are there many more like them?

Mitch Hinde
  #1165  
Old 08-09-2014, 15:10
eskimosailor's Avatar
eskimosailor eskimosailor is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

My paper this morning noted that the queen will be in Scotland on the day of the referendum. Is she registered as resident there, and if so is she entitled to vote?
Steve
  #1166  
Old 08-09-2014, 17:24
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

No Steve she only has a holiday home up here. I saw her on Saturday a few miles from us at the Braemar Games, I gave her a wave but she blanked me. She must have seen some of my posts.
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  #1167  
Old 08-09-2014, 17:45
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Hi All

Who is Bruce Ogilivie, what is "Siol nan Gaidheal", what standing do they have in Scotland, and are there many more like them?

Mitch Hinde
Mitch, Bruce is a nice chap from Montrose who is the CEO of the organization you named who are a group dedicated to abusing English people who come up here to live.
They have absolutely no standing or place in Scotland. The Scots may fight among themselves, The people from the East dont like the people in the west but generally speaking The Scots and the English (or Guffies as we are called) get on very well.
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  #1168  
Old 08-09-2014, 17:57
rab.m. rab.m. is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
Mitch, Bruce is a nice chap from Montrose who is the CEO of the organization you named who are a group dedicated to abusing English people who come up here to live.
They have absolutely no standing or place in Scotland. The Scots may fight among themselves, The people from the East dont like the people in the west but generally speaking The Scots and the English (or Guffies as we are called) get on very well.
I sincerely hope Johnny that these sentiments are tongue in cheek?.
Rab.
  #1169  
Old 08-09-2014, 18:21
Rupert Rupert is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
PPS word on the street up here is that Kate's pregnancy is all part of the Better Togeather campaign.
As soon as I heard that on the news, my first thought will be that some SNP **** (not you Johnny I know) will claim it is part of a Cameron conspiracy to get it announced earlier than they would in order to attract some votes.

I had it as 10-1 that someone will claim Cameron sneaked in a few months back and did the dirty himself
  #1170  
Old 08-09-2014, 19:48
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

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I sincerely hope Johnny that these sentiments are tongue in cheek?.
Rab.
Only the bit about Bruce being a nice chap actually he is a ghastly bloke. I was serious about the rest. In my experience having been up here for over 50 years the people from the East coast have no time at all for the people from the West coast but the Scots and English get on fine and why would'nt they.
I may be getting a false reading though as where I live is called Royal Deeside. The royal family have homes here and everyone (except me) like them so I think it follows that they dont mind the English either. Also because of the oil there is nearly as many English people living here as Scots so that helps.
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  #1171  
Old 08-09-2014, 21:01
rab.m. rab.m. is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

[quote=johnny07;10123517]Only the bit about Bruce being a nice chap actually he is a ghastly bloke. I was serious about the rest. In my experience having been up here for over 50 years the people from the East coast have no time at all for the people from the West coast but the Scots and English get on fine and why would'nt they

Think you have been too long among the Teuchtars Johnny might be time to spend some time in Jannerland with yer ain folk.
Rab.
  #1172  
Old 08-09-2014, 22:04
Mitch Hinde Mitch Hinde is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Hi All

Thanks for the answers chaps. From what I have read about the chap he comes across like a cross between Idi Amin and Lavrentiy Beria without the IQ of either of them.

Mitch Hinde
  #1173  
Old 08-09-2014, 22:04
Dave Hutson Dave Hutson is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

[quote=rab.m.;10123524]
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny07 View Post
Only the bit about Bruce being a nice chap actually he is a ghastly bloke. I was serious about the rest. In my experience having been up here for over 50 years the people from the East coast have no time at all for the people from the West coast but the Scots and English get on fine and why would'nt they

Think you have been too long among the Teuchtars Johnny might be time to spend some time in Jannerland with yer ain folk.
Rab.
Och awa with yer Rab ..... Who says we want him back
  #1174  
Old 09-09-2014, 19:22
johnny07 johnny07 is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

On the Channel 4 news tonight the economic correspondent, I think he is called Paul Mason said a strange thing. He was talking about the referendum and said that when politicians talk to the Scots they should play on their emotions and not say words like fiscal, deficit and interest as they just dont understand them.
Cheeky sod.
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  #1175  
Old 09-09-2014, 21:24
Mitch Hinde Mitch Hinde is offline
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Default Re: The Potential Consequences of Scottish Independence

Hi All

He was probably thinking of Gordon Brown who obviously didn't understand the terms when he sold off half the UK's gold reserves just as the price had hit its lowest level in years.

Mitch Hinde
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