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  #1  
Old 19-09-2009, 19:41
SCRG1970 SCRG1970 is offline
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Post Mechanician or Tiffie?

Joining up as a Junior Elecrician I later completed Mechanicians Course and was justifiably proud of this. Our opposite numbers the Artificers felt the same way and it all seemed to work okay.

My question is who are the skilled tradesmen in todays navy ?? The names of various rates seem to give no explanation so who replaced the Mech/Artificer ??

Regards

gerry
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  #2  
Old 20-09-2009, 09:16
davep davep is offline
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

i might be able to answer that one, i joined originally as a wem (r) in 1990 and after passing for po went on what used to be called mechs course but its actually the final 2 1/2 years of the tiffs course.
at the end of it i was a powea, then in 2007 they brought in the engineering technicians branch, so overnight i became a poet (we)!
so all tiffs and mechs in all 3 engineering branches became engineering technicians.
to keep the esprit de corps as they called it of the artifficer, all who were senior rates at the change over to et's didnt have to start wearing a branch badge. we just had a name change, petty officer mechanics, leading hands and below had to wear the new et branch badge with either we or me on it.
hope that helps
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  #3  
Old 20-09-2009, 10:50
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

As an ex 14 year EA tiffy, thank you Dave for that explanation. From the Fisgard website I have seen photos of the last class of EA tiffs (5 in total) dressed bell-bottoms but wearing their POs rate. Quite mystifying for someone who joined as an apprentice in 1949. How the mighty have fallen! On another website, I read that all electrical training is now done at Sultan and not at Collingwood. So what happens at Collingwood?
Rob T
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Last edited by jonti : 20-09-2009 at 10:53. Reason: additional info.
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  #4  
Old 20-09-2009, 11:49
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonti View Post
As an ex 14 year EA tiffy, thank you Dave for that explanation. From the Fisgard website I have seen photos of the last class of EA tiffs (5 in total) dressed bell-bottoms but wearing their POs rate. Quite mystifying for someone who joined as an apprentice in 1949. How the mighty have fallen! On another website, I read that all electrical training is now done at Sultan and not at Collingwood. So what happens at Collingwood?
Rob T
They are in the Grand Final against St Kilda
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  #5  
Old 20-09-2009, 12:43
davep davep is offline
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

jonti

When i joined in 1990 collingwood was the weapon engineering school, but eventually the dabbers took over now its the maritime warfare school. Weapon engineers are still trained there, but the majority of training there is what used to take place at dryad. in fact as we personnel we are very much now second class citizens in collingwood.
although they still train engineering technicians at collingwood they have knocked down all the work shops, so all practical handskills type training takes place at sultan.
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  #6  
Old 20-09-2009, 14:48
doug.birch doug.birch is offline
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Hi, Ex, whatevers, I am more confused than ever, now that I have read your threads. Why did they not leave as it was, a body of talented Electrcal Artificers and let our name live on, one of them. Doug, Birch.
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  #7  
Old 20-09-2009, 16:41
davep davep is offline
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

because as a famous philosopher said if you keep reorganising it looks like progress!
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  #8  
Old 20-09-2009, 18:50
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

and before we all get too precious about our own particular skill sets and branches, have a look at this link which I posted a wee while ago in the Pingity-ping thread, paying particular from whence it started:-

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...&postcount=138

Little h
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  #9  
Old 20-09-2009, 18:55
SCRG1970 SCRG1970 is offline
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Post Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Dave
Thanks for the explanation although it seems a lot of tinkering around to achieve very little.
I believe the Artificers training was five years and the Mechs did two years but had already completed two years on mechanics and leading hands courses so... is the training still as long or shorter ???
With respect I feel there may have been a bit of "dumbing down" vis-a-vis GCEs and whatever they are called now !!!
It will be nice to know serving members opinion.

Regards

gerry
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  #10  
Old 20-09-2009, 20:26
davep davep is offline
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Gerry

the mechs equivalent that i did is 2 1/2 years as we have our previous mechanics experience. Before that the tiffs had done 18months to 2 years.
At the end of it now rather than an HNC was get a foundation degree, in my case in electrical and electronic eng.
there has definately been some dumbing down when i joined the lowest you could get on your namet was 6/6 but when the operator maintainers arrived the namet level dropped to a ridiculous level and its been replaced by a thing called lantern. dont know much about it as it doesnt affect me.
But now with the bringing in of the et's it will take about 8 to 12 years to get to cpo as advancement to cpo has now become by selection unlike in the old tiff scheme, and at the end of it you will still just get a foundation degree and i personally cant see people wanting to join for that length of time and getting just a foundation degree.
the proper 4year engineering apprenticeship was the best form of technical training either in the forces or the civilian world and we are now learning how much we have lost by the need for proper skilled men now a days.
i mean who ever heard of an apprentice travel agent!!
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  #11  
Old 20-09-2009, 23:12
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wafu View Post
They are in the Grand Final against St Kilda
Hi Wafu. You need to get out more. Collingwood got busted by Geelong and Geelong will be busted by the Saints. For forum readers not resident in OZ, this is an Australian Rules football thing. Rob T
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  #12  
Old 21-09-2009, 03:12
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonti View Post
Hi Wafu. You need to get out more. Collingwood got busted by Geelong and Geelong will be busted by the Saints. For forum readers not resident in OZ, this is an Australian Rules football thing. Rob T
Now that just goes to show, how much interest I have in Ariel ping pong
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  #13  
Old 21-09-2009, 07:56
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wafu View Post
Now that just goes to show, how much interest I have in Ariel ping pong
I have none....but I think the Saints will win

Cheers
Jack
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  #14  
Old 23-09-2009, 09:05
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Hi Dave. What exactly is a foundation degree? ONC and HNC I know of as they have been around for many years. On another subject, how are gun turrets now powered to train and elevate? In my day the turret OA and hgis gunners mate would spend hours messing with shale oil, oil pumps, leaks, etc.
Rob T
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  #15  
Old 23-09-2009, 10:16
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John O'Callaghan John O'Callaghan is offline
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Hi All . As with everything else in the world the various 'trades' in the navy have had to change to suit modern business/work practices. By and large fewer and fewer pieces of equipment are designed to be repaired something either works or it doesn't. The ability to fix it on site is much reduced. If its important a C5 Galaxy or equivelant will bring you a new one. the days of ships or units being out of contact on the other side of the world for months or years living or you own devices are also history. I'm not saying I agree with it but thems the facts of the 21st century.
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  #16  
Old 23-09-2009, 15:02
SCRG1970 SCRG1970 is offline
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Post Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

John
I take onboard what you are saying that with the evolution of "black-box" technology it is not necessary or possible to fault-find to component level.
However does this mean that the modern day ships no longer carry or need lathes etc and then can dispense with the expertise that would operate them ???

Regards

Gerry
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  #17  
Old 23-09-2009, 22:17
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John O'Callaghan John O'Callaghan is offline
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Hi SCRG1970. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the trade skills Tiffies&Mechs offered to the navy are not still relevant.I'm pointing out that navies these days are less likely to train people in those skills as part of their internal training. Also, as there has not been an enduring 'naval' war in the traditional sense since WW2. Not withstanding the Vietnam And Falklands Wars which involved naval forces in support of land operations.The 'new think' of how durable ships and their supply and maitenance systems are has not really been tested. As Armies in Iraq and Afganistan are relearning, wars do not nescessarily go to plan and are not always over by Christmas.
Cheers John O'C.
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  #18  
Old 24-09-2009, 00:02
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Default Re: Mechanician or Tiffie?

Another question to a modern-day navy person. What do ship designers do with the large space previously occupied by 2 boiler-rooms in a steam powered ship? Is it used partially to accommodate the water filtration equipment which must now be needed with the absence of steam.? Rob T
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