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  #26  
Old 12-02-2009, 12:55
Joseph Joseph is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Hi,

The crew lists are not available, when he was on HMS Cumberland what was his 'List and Number' ?.

Regards Charles
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  #27  
Old 12-02-2009, 18:47
ossie ossie is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Hi,

the list number you require is 15 and his name is Oswald Smith. Thanks for your help
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  #28  
Old 17-03-2009, 13:17
Beery Beery is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Once again I'm posting an obscure request. This time for information about HMS Victory II. From what I've been told, this was not technically a ship, but a shore installation for training new recruits. My great great grand uncle was posted to Victory II during the following periods, and this is what I've been told about Victory II's role:

Victory II - Stoker, 11/8/1910 - 3/9/1910. Passed induc for P.O. (presumably an induction test to start the process towards Petty Officer)

Victory II - Stoker, 16/10/1910 - 6/12/1910. Passed Prof for S.P.O. (presumably a test for Stoker Petty Officer?)

Victory II - Stoker, 27/6/1913 - 31/7/1914. No details.

Victory II - Stoker, 8/4/1915 - 21/2/1916. (apparently, from what I've been told, from 1914, Victory II was the Crystal Palace/Sydenham training depot for the Royal Naval Division, so why he'd be here as a stoker is a mystery to me). According to Wikipedia, the British 63rd (Royal Naval) Division was a First World War division of the New Army. It had been formed at the outbreak of war as the Royal Naval Division composed largely of surplus reserves of the Royal Navy who were not required at sea.

Victory II - Leading Stoker, 14/10/1917 - 8/2/1918. No details.

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Beery : 17-03-2009 at 13:42.
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  #29  
Old 17-03-2009, 13:26
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qprdave qprdave is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Hope this will help a little, Beery

Victory II was the Crystal Palace/Sydenham training depot for the Royal Naval Division from 1914 and in Naval parlance, was "paid off" on 21.3.19. It was also known as HMS Crystal Palace. It appears to have had no existance prior to 1914.
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  #30  
Old 17-03-2009, 13:30
Beery Beery is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Ooops, hehe, I just added some more info that's the same as what you wrote, hehe. Great to have confirmation though! Thanks.

As for the Crystal Palace/Sydenham training depot not existing before 1914, that's almost certainly true, but Victory II must have existed from at least 1910, because I have the service papers that prove William Wheelhouse was assigned there.

So the question becomes this: where and what was Victory II prior to 1914. It's certainly some kind of training establishment, but that's all I can gather.
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  #31  
Old 17-03-2009, 13:52
navalis navalis is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

VICTORY II is not listed in the Navy Lists of the time, but under the entry 'Victory' there is a long list of those that came under that name. It includes the Royal Naval Barracks at Portsmouth and various 'outposts' in Portsmouth Dockyard. These include the school of physical training, the signal school and '2nd class stokers under training'.

I would suggest that the term Victory II was used for accounting purposes, and probably refers to those under training at Portsmouth.
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  #32  
Old 17-03-2009, 13:59
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alanbenn alanbenn is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Beery, the subject of shore bases such as Victory II has been asked several times before on the forum so you are not alone at the confusion regarding the base.

There have been several Victory (bases) all are accounting bases, for the purpose of pay etc. Your relative would have been attached to a unit or ship and Victory II was his accounting base for his pay and conditions. This way the RN could account for everyone. Often on the records there maybe a name in brackets after the Victory II, this may indicate the ship or unit he was at.


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  #33  
Old 17-03-2009, 16:08
Beery Beery is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately there is no further information, so would that mean he was based on shore and not attached to a ship at that time?
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  #34  
Old 17-03-2009, 17:16
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

When on the Mechanicians qualifying course I spent 18 months in pompey barracks, it was definately HMS Victory, this was 1955-6, the last 6mths of the course was at HMS Sultan, it had just been taken over from the Fleet Air Arm and was HMS Siskin then.
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  #35  
Old 17-03-2009, 17:56
Joseph Joseph is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Victory II was the Division at Portsmouth that Accounted for ERA's and Stokers, at the outbreak of war it was moved to Crystal Palace to account for the New Entry's

It was like a depot ship but on land dealing with the Administration of its Division.

Regards Charles
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  #36  
Old 17-03-2009, 18:00
Beery Beery is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Ah great! That mystery is solved. Thanks.
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  #37  
Old 17-03-2009, 18:48
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

I knew that someone here would know.
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  #38  
Old 10-04-2009, 20:56
SCRG1970 SCRG1970 is offline
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Post Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Trawling through several initial enquiries there seems to be confusion on Service Records re HMS VICTORY especially when it has a suffix ie VICTORY III.

To assist new members here is a list of the fuctions/dates of HMS VICTORY

HMS VICTORY Portsmouth Depot Ship bearing the name of the barracks until renamed NELSON in 1974.

VICTORY I at Goodings near Newbury as an Accounting Base from Sept.1940

VICTORY II at Crystal Palace Sydenham as a Training Depot for RN Divisions in 1915 . Called HMS CRYSTAL PALACE.

VICTORY II at Newbury as Portsmouth Accounting Section moved to Portsmouth late 1945.

VICTORY III Accounting Section at Wooley Park, Wantage Oct.1940 returning to Portsmouth late 1945.

VICTORY IV Accounting Section at Crystal palace 1919. Joined with VICTORY III in Oct 1939 and reformed at Leydene House, Petersfield Nov. 1941-1945. Returned to Portsmouth late 1945.

VICTORY V Base at the South Western Hotel in Southampton from May 1941. Renamed HMS SHRAPNEL June 1942.

VICTORY V at Portsmouth as Combined HQ from June 1944.

VICTORY VI at Crystal Palace as a Depot for RN and RNR Divisions 1914-1918.

VICTORY X at Commercial Chambers Portsmouth as a Demob Centre in 1947.

VICTORY XI at Portland as a Naval Depot 1920 and renamed as BOSCAWEN in 1932.

Hope this basic guide will help those researching service records and save a lot of repetetive posts.

Regards

Gerry
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  #39  
Old 10-04-2009, 21:39
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Victory at last Gerry!
But seriously thanks for he explanation of the various Victory`s - well useful.
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  #40  
Old 10-04-2009, 22:09
Joseph Joseph is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Before and after WW1 at Portsmouth

'Victory I' Accounting Division for Military Branch

'Victory II' Accounting Division for Stokers and ERA's

'Victory III' Accoumting Division for Misc

Regards Charles
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  #41  
Old 11-04-2009, 15:31
SCRG1970 SCRG1970 is offline
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Post Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Charles

Thanks for those additions , they will help someones queries I am sure.

Regards

gerry
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  #42  
Old 03-08-2009, 10:48
jupiter1 jupiter1 is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Hi,
I have two uncles who served in the first world war at sea.
It is believed that they served on both HMS Victory and HMS Powerful at different times.
There names were Arthur CONNAH and Albert Ernest MATHEWS, spelt as MATTHEWS in some documents.
MATHEWS was a ships pantry hand/cook.
I have a photo of CONNAH in uniform, there is a anchor with 3 stripes underneith it on his left arm.

How could I get a photo of these ships and their service information please.
Many thanks,
Phil H.
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  #43  
Old 03-08-2009, 12:12
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alanbenn alanbenn is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Phil, welcome to the forum, Hms Victory during world war1 was not actually a ship but a base, several departments were spread around and were used as accounting bases for Naval personnel, they may have been attached to ships or bases that were controlled by Victory.....here's the list, documents would show a roman numeral next to the name Victory.

HMS Victory - Flagship Portsmouth & barracks 1840 - 1974
HMS Victory II - Crystal Palace - Training depot RN Divs 1914-19
HMS Victory III - Portsmouth Accounting Sec 1914-17
HMS Victory IV - London/Portsmouth/Petersfield RNR 1914-17
HMS Victory VI - Crystal Palace depot for RNR & RN Divs 1914-19
HMS Victory VII - Portland auxiliary patrol depot 1915
HMS Victory IX - Reserves Portsmouth 1915-16
HMS Victory X - Portsmouth accounting section 1917-19


I've attached a photo of Hms Powerful....cruiser.


Regards
Alan
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File Type: jpg Powerful (cruiser) pic3 (1905).jpg (634.2 KB, 18 views)
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  #44  
Old 17-08-2009, 19:21
David Verghese David Verghese is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Hello Charles and Gerry,

Regarding your posts of 10- & 11-04-2009 ,they have indeed helped me, a mere ordinary seaman, in connection with unravelling the apparent mystery a Shore Establishment. It was Victory 2 (as stated on the service record of an E.R.A.),amongst other RNSEs, that I was seeking clarification when I recently took a look at the book "Shore Establishments of the Royal Navy" by Lt.Cdr. Ben Warlow RN.

It is a real can of worms to find one's way around the nomenclature of these organisations as indeed the above author attests to in his preface to the book. Actually I wonder if it isn't some dastardly plot, hatched in the bowels of the Admiralty or Naval Intelligence, to fool both the enemy of the time and future amateur naval historians!
I am also trying to unravel the exact delineation of: Drake 2-4 and Drake II-6 from the period 1947-8. Are "2 "and "II" the exact same? and are the suffixes -4 and -6 simply different buildings in the same complex at Plymouth? I say this as I look at a past picture of HMS Drake posted by batstiger.

I have searched without success for a specific picture of HMS Victory 2 (or II) from around 1940 (+/- 4 years). Hopefully a past Tiffy or Stoker might have one. Will astraltrader come to my rescue?

Thanks and regards
David
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  #45  
Old 17-08-2009, 21:13
SCRG1970 SCRG1970 is offline
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Post Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

David

As far as I can guessitimate "2" and "II" will refer to same establishment. The suffix 2-4 I havent come across before.

A photo of Victory II may be a bit dissappointing as it would only be wartime buildings ,it didnt even have a designated ship.

Regards

Gerry
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  #46  
Old 17-08-2009, 23:15
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benbow30 benbow30 is offline
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Regarding Victory 1v I have just looked at my s459 service cert. and it is mentioned there it was when drafted to a small ship and all your pay records were kept.At the heading it says ship or tender in brackets. i.e. Sea Eagle Derry Suadron, Pembroke1v Chatham,Phoenicica Malta, I beleive they were parts of the ships office in Barracks.
Hope that thows some light on the subject.
Benbow30
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  #47  
Old 15-10-2009, 05:37
angela turner angela turner is offline
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Question Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

My name is Angela Turner and I am enquiring about my late Fathers' time in the Navy during WW2. His name was Thomas Valentine Byrne, Service No JX307943. He came from Farnborough. Our family emigrated to Australia in 1966. I have his navy papers but his surname is incorrectly spelt as Bryne.He had mentioned that he was torpedoed on two occasions, which puzzles me as the two ships he was on are shore based ships. Can anyone solve this mystery? He was an electrician by trade and trained personnel in the use of anti aircraft guns. I would also like to obtain a photo of him in his uniform. The attatched[hopefully...first attempt at anything like this!!] is a picture taken on his wedding day in 1947 which would be of similar likeness time wise. Look forward to any replies.

Cheers Ang
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  #48  
Old 15-10-2009, 08:40
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Angela, welcome to the forum.

If you could scan the papers you have of your fathers naval history and post them onto the forum there are several people here who will help decipher them for you.

This will open up lots of new info for you to follow up on.

Look forward to seeing them.

Regards
Alan
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  #49  
Old 15-10-2009, 14:15
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Default Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Quote:
Originally Posted by angela turner View Post
My name is Angela Turner and I am enquiring about my late Fathers' time in the Navy during WW2. His name was Thomas Valentine Byrne, Service No JX307943. He came from Farnborough. Our family emigrated to Australia in 1966. I have his navy papers but his surname is incorrectly spelt as Bryne.He had mentioned that he was torpedoed on two occasions, which puzzles me as the two ships he was on are shore based ships. Can anyone solve this mystery? He was an electrician by trade and trained personnel in the use of anti aircraft guns. I would also like to obtain a photo of him in his uniform. The attatched[hopefully...first attempt at anything like this!!] is a picture taken on his wedding day in 1947 which would be of similar likeness time wise. Look forward to any replies.

Cheers Ang

Welcome Ang,

Many Small Ships, Submarines and small inland establishments, I.E, Wireless Stations, were attached to either Mother Ships and or an RN Barracks, The ships name would have a roman numeral in brackets after the name I.E. H.M.S. Victory (IV).
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  #50  
Old 16-10-2009, 00:05
angela turner angela turner is offline
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Smile Re: RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Victory

Dear Limey Biker!!
Thank you for your reply. I can see I have a lot to learn about the Navy but with a little help from you guys hopefully I will get to the bottom of the mystery torpedoing and along the way find out more about Naval life on Whale Island during WW2.

Cheers Ang
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