Irish Warships

[astraltrader]

Originally Posted by Aidan

I forgot to mention my thanks to Danny (siggy 63) for those excellent photo's of the Coniston class ships and the other photo's you have posted. If I might make a suggestion to all, with Terry's approval of course,,, as Terry has mentioned we have plenty of good photo's of currently active ships, so if possible, could we now concentrate on the non active vessels, or, perhaps photo's of currently active vessels that relate to a specific or noteworthy incident that the vessel was involved in, thanks. As an example, we now have some good photo's of LE Macha 01, so I have added the photo below (courtesey of Pat Brennan, Irish Naval Association member) because it shows LE Macha on the day she first arrived at Hawlbowline Naval Base, therefore marking a very important event in INS history, namely the day the Irish Navy recieved its first true Warship and thus became a true ocean capable Navy.

Totally agree Aidan I would like to see any different pictures of non-active Irish Warships, bearing in mind that we now have a good coverage of the current fleet.

[culverin]

I have reason to believe the Irish Navy is totally unique in one respect.
Every vessel it operates is named after a female.
Now this is definitely taking the old adage that all ships are she, even if named after a he.
He he. Oops sorry. She she.

[Aidan]

thats correct Culverin, the names are chosen from female figures from Irish mythology.

[Daire]

Gentlemen,
I'm trying to track a story relating to the the wartime Irish MTB M2 and her participation in the Dunkirk evacuation in 1940. The version which I have, from Richard Ridgeway, an Irish engineer officer who was standing by the newly fitting out M3 at Thornycroft's Hampton yard is that M2, which was near completion, was taken over by the RN. She went to Dover, apparently earmarked to take off some VIPs from France, but in the event, wasn't used, and was duly handed back to Thornycroft and then on to the Irish Marine Service. Another Irish Marine Service engineer officer, called Bill Richardson was standing by M2 at the time, and volunteered to go with her to Dunkirk. This might have had interesting implications for Irish neutrality if he had fallen into German hands.

the other version is that the boat did in fact go to Dunkirk with a full Irish crew. I find this less plausible, as it is claimed that she left from Southampton.

If anyone knows anything about this incident, I'd like to hear about it and put the story to rest once and for all.

[Aidan]

Originally Posted by Daire

Gentlemen,
I'm trying to track a story relating to the the wartime Irish MTB M2 and her participation in the Dunkirk evacuation in 1940. The version which I have, from Richard Ridgeway, an Irish engineer officer who was standing by the newly fitting out M3 at Thornycroft's Hampton yard is that M2, which was near completion, was taken over by the RN. She went to Dover, apparently earmarked to take off some VIPs from France, but in the event, wasn't used, and was duly handed back to Thornycroft and then on to the Irish Marine Service. Another Irish Marine Service engineer officer, called Bill Richardson was standing by M2 at the time, and volunteered to go with her to Dunkirk. This might have had interesting implications for Irish neutrality if he had fallen into German hands.

the other version is that the boat did in fact go to Dunkirk with a full Irish crew. I find this less plausible, as it is claimed that she left from Southampton.

If anyone knows anything about this incident, I'd like to hear about it and put the story to rest once and for all.

M2 was not taken into Irish service until July 1940, so whilst it is possible that M2 was involved in the Dunkirk operation, it is extremely unlikely that it would have had an Irish Naval Service crew. I have an excelent book entitled "A History of the Irish Naval Service" written by Aidan McIvor which gives a very comprehensive account of all vessels that came under INS use, including the before and after use. He notes such details as M1 was origionaly intended for the Estonian Navy and M2 was origionally intended for the Latvian Navy but following the Soviet annexing of these countries, they became available for the Irish Navy, he lists such things as the names of the crews of these vessels, what eventually happened to them etc so if M2 was comandeered for Dunkirk such a notable event is unlikely to be omited from his book, especially if it was crewed by Irish naval personel as it would have constituted a breach of neutrality, and such an event would certainly be worthy of mentioning. It is possible that if M2 went to Dunkirk she may have had Irishmen as part or all of the crew (as we know, a large number of Irishmen fought in the British armed services during WW2) but they most likely would have been Royal Navy personel. I'll make enquieries at the Naval headquarters in Haubowline and see if they can shed any light on this, if I can get any definate info I'll post a reply on here.

[Daire]

Aidan,

thanks for your reply. I have McIvor's book, and MacGinty's. MacGinty quotes my interview with Richard Ridgeway in his second chapter (ref 3). What I really need to know is where one would look in UK or RN records which might throw light on the incident. Is there any record of vessels taken up by the RN for the evacuation? I am familiar with the records which are or were held in Haulbowline. Much was destroyed in the fire in Block 4 unfortunately. I intend to research Defence Forces Archieves in Dublin, this would be a more likely source in Ireland.

Regards,

Daire

[Aidan]

Originally Posted by Daire

Aidan,

thanks for your reply. I have McIvor's book, and MacGinty's. MacGinty quotes my interview with Richard Ridgeway in his second chapter (ref 3). What I really need to know is where one would look in UK or RN records which might throw light on the incident. Is there any record of vessels taken up by the RN for the evacuation? I am familiar with the records which are or were held in Haulbowline. Much was destroyed in the fire in Block 4 unfortunately. I intend to research Defence Forces Archieves in Dublin, this would be a more likely source in Ireland.

Regards,

Daire

Hi Daire,

at a guess I would say that your best bet would be (apart from obviously the National Maritime Museum in London) to try Hampton Yard. If M2 was comandeered by the RN then some form of official note or reciept or order must have been issued to the yard commander. I'm not sure if the yard still exists as such, but if it does, it's posible they might still have records. Also it might be worth getting in touch with the RN Admiralty, they probably wouldn't have the records there, but they should be able to tell you the most likely place any such records would be kept.

[Daire]

Hi Aidan,

Thanks for that, that's a good idea. I think Thornycroaft were absorbed by one of the other smaller ship-building companies some years ago, but I'll track that and see what records they may have.

I'm new to this kind of online forum, do our posts go to the general membership or are they confined to the thread 'Irish Ships'?

Regards,

Daire

[Daire]

Hi again Aidan,

reading back some of the posts, the reference to the naming scheme for Irish navla ships, two had male names, Ferdia and Setanta. Both of these had 'A' pennant numbers and thus supposedly classed as auxiliaries. I asked the then flag officer commanding if this male naming had any significance and he wasn't able to give me an answer. I never found out who decided the names for ships.
Both these ships were not very succesful; Ferdia was a deep sea stern trawler, acquired on bareboat charter in response to political pressure to use converted fishing vessels for patrol work instead of 'expensive' naval ships. The Setanta was to be a training ship, but the funds to convert her properly for this role was never provided, and with new vessels coming into service staff and funds/effort was required elsewhere.

Regards,

Daire

[Aidan]

Hi Daire, the postings remain just in this thread. Re the naming, male names were used on some aux craft etc, actual fighting ships only used the female names, and judging by the average Irish woman on a saturday night it's not surprising really, lol.

[navigator11]

We may not have a large official navy. We dont need one. There are thousands of boats of all sizes and descriptions around our coasts . Now hear this, if the proverbial hits the fan there are very few who would not put their boats and lives on the line in defence of this wee island and that of our good neighbours. Much the same as the evacuation of Dunkirk. When every tar worth his salt turned out to achieve the most spectacular rescue of their comrades in arms ever. God bless them all each and every one.

[Rushbrooke]

Originally Posted by steve roberts

Hi Aidan.Didn't the Irish Navy make a name for it's self some years ago,when one of it's patrol boats arrested a rather large Russian Fish-Factory ship.I don't know what the outcome of the incident was,but it received a very good reception in the press.The fact that a "Little" Navy could stand up to such a large nation,and ensure the Fishing rights of Ireland...Many Regards Steve.

The N.S vessel in question was the L.E. Grainne, I was the Captain at the time and the outcome was that the Russian trawler was found guilty. Incidentally we also detained a Bulgarian trawler two days before the Russian incident. I am presently writing a detailed account of the Belomorye arrest and subsequent court proceedings.

[jacky]

Originally Posted by Aidan

I'm afraid I dont have the origionals Terry, there just picture's I've found on various sites.

you could try to find out from records of hms reclaims deployment to rosslare in the sixties if any photos exsist of irish navy vessels. we where supplied with fresh milk,mail and groceries by a corvette while looking for a crashed airliner.

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi All,

Does any one have a badge of L E Grainne at all?

Many thanks,

+ Anthony

[MaggieRedhead]

I am from North Tipperary where they don't have much demand for Navy Ships, although the River Shannon
runs along the northern border of the county, and there is great fishing.
For those who are calling for a bigger, more "macho" Navy...
...yes it would be nice to have a helicopter carrier, but it isn't going to happen.

I have a young relative in Ireland who wanted to join the Military.
He was told there is a 4-year recruiting freeze on, so now he wants to join the US Navy.

The biggest problem these days is illegals and drugs pouring into Ireland,
so I wish the Navy would step up it's operations in those areas. Security on ferries coming into Ireland is pathetic.

The Branches of Military in Ireland are Defence Forces.
The official line is they take part only in peace-keeping operations, although there are the Army Rangers
who train with American Special Forces.

Recent Irish Naval Exercise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TPxu...mbedded#at=100

A heavily-laden Irish vessel on an essential mission:

[ludsie]

The peacock class patrol ships are looking great. Have the Irish made any mods since they were handed over

[astraltrader]

Originally Posted by empiretocommonwealth

Hi All,

Does any one have a badge of L E Grainne at all?

Many thanks,

+ Anthony

Sorry for time taken to reply Anthony but I have only just noticed your post.

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Terry!

Go raibth mulion math agat! - Thanks a million!

Very much appreciated!

+ Anthony

[David Hathaway]

As a new joiner to the forum with a particular interest in ships of the Irish Naval Service, I was very pleased to find and read this thread.

I do have a request for the other members though - does anyone have or know where I can get a good general arrangement drawing of any or all of the P2x ships? That is one of LE Dierdre P20, LE Emer P21, LE Aoife P22 or LE Aisling P23?

I lived in Cork near Verolme dockyard while they were being built, hence my interest and I know there must be drawings available somewhere as I have seen pictures of several models of them.

Any help appreciated.

David Hathaway

[empiretocommonwealth]

Originally Posted by David Hathaway

As a new joiner to the forum with a particular interest in ships of the Irish Naval Service, I was very pleased to find and read this thread.

I do have a request for the other members though - does anyone have or know where I can get a good general arrangement drawing of any or all of the P2x ships? That is one of LE Dierdre P20, LE Emer P21, LE Aoife P22 or LE Aisling P23?

I lived in Cork near Verolme dockyard while they were being built, hence my interest and I know there must be drawings available somewhere as I have seen pictures of several models of them.

Any help appreciated.

David Hathaway

Hi David,

Is it just the drawings of the ships - or are ye after the badges as well?

Nice surname - mine's Hathaway-Taylor

+ Anthony

[Aidan]

Originally Posted by David Hathaway

As a new joiner to the forum with a particular interest in ships of the Irish Naval Service, I was very pleased to find and read this thread.

I do have a request for the other members though - does anyone have or know where I can get a good general arrangement drawing of any or all of the P2x ships? That is one of LE Dierdre P20, LE Emer P21, LE Aoife P22 or LE Aisling P23?

I lived in Cork near Verolme dockyard while they were being built, hence my interest and I know there must be drawings available somewhere as I have seen pictures of several models of them.

Any help appreciated.

David Hathaway

Hi David and welcome to the forum, if you contact the Naval Base at Hawlboline, Cork and ask for the Operations room, the guys there are usually very helpfull with requests such as yours,

Aidan

[David Hathaway]

Thanks for the pointer to where I can get drawings - I will contact the Operations room and see what comes of that.

Yes it is just the plans for the ships at the moment. The pictures of the ships crests that were posted in this thread earlier should be fine for my purposes.

Thanks again

David

[kmce]

Originally Posted by Aidan

I have a number of photo's taken on board the 3 Corvette's while in Irish service which are usefull for detail but it's impossible to tell which ship is which.

May I volunteer some thoughts on the identities of the ships given in the photos?

Not sure how to include the photos here, but hopefully comments will suffice.

Image 1 Long distance shot - Either Macha or Cliona due to searchlight platform over 2 pdr gun, and elevated depth charge rails.

Image 2 - Either Macha or Maev; rounded gun shield & single bollard on foc'sle.

Image 3 - Cliona; square gunshield and two bollards on Stb foc'sle.

Image 4 - Cliona; Extended bandstand for 2 pdr gun.

Image 5 - Cliona; Searchlight platform, and "NA" visible on name plate.

Image 6 - Cliona; Crest visible on bridge and two bollards on Stb foc'sle.

Image 7 - Cliona; Square end to 2 pdr bandstand.

Image 8 - No clue!

Image 9 - Either Macha or Cliona; raised depth charge rails & canvas rail between superstructure and DC rails?

Image 10 - No clue!

Just a few thought for comment

I'm currently building a model of Cliona at the moment (kit bashing the 1/72 Revell kit), so have done some research on all the available photos. Communications with press office of the Naval Service have provided only those photos currently in the public domain.

Whilst I'm here - would anyone have any photos of Shark - steam drifter used as an auxillary between '40 - 52?
I would like to include both this drifter and a model of M4 in a static diorama of Irish Navy ships of that era.

Regards,

Ken

[derek s.langsdon]

I'm a late reader of this interesting thread on the ships of the Irish Naval Service. Are there still eight vessels ? being various patrol ships with one carrying a helicopter ? I see from Aiden and Ken's exchanges of last year discussing photos and models that there may have been more
It must be the only country in the world where ALL Navy ships are named after women (from Irish/Celtic mythology) I assume L.E.stands for Irish Ship
What is the personnel strength of the Irish Naval Service.,and does it also include sea-going women sailors asper the RN ?

derek-L

derek-L

[Aidan]

Hi Derek,

Unfortunately my computor blew up and I lost all my data so I cant give you exact personel manning level's without researching it all again but from memory we run 8 vessels, 1 of which is Helicopter capable, women are indeed included and serve alongside the men on the ships, and about 18 months ago one female officer became the first to be appointed Captain of an Irish Navy vessel. "LE",,,,, to this day there is still some debate as to the actual interpretation of LE, due to the variations in the Irish langauge, but generally it is taken as either State Ship or Irish Ship, and indeed, all the vessels are named after mythical females from irish legend. Personell strenght from what I can recall is around 1,000 to 1,500, although I could be a bit out on the figure's.